Apple Offers Statement on Warranty Disclosures to Italian Customers

MacRumors

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Original poster
Apr 12, 2001
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Back in late December, Apple was fined $1.2 million by Italian regulators over allegations that the company promoted its AppleCare extended warranty program to customers without adequately disclosing that many of the program's benefits were already included in the standard two-year warranty required by Italian law.




As noted by @setteBIT, Apple has now added to its Italian online store a prominent link sharing the court decision (PDF). The document outlines the requirement that Apple modify the marketing terms for its AppleCare services in Italy within 90 days from the December 21 decision to properly reflect what is covered under standard two-year warranties and to widely publicize that information to consumers.

It is unclear whether Apple will continue to appeal the fine, with today's posting of the decision perhaps designed to meet the court's requirements while the case remains ongoing.

Article Link: Apple Offers Statement on Warranty Disclosures to Italian Customers
 

CmdrLaForge

macrumors 601
Feb 26, 2003
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Great to see that they follow the law. In any case I guess it is much easier to get stuff repaired if you have AppleCare. At least I buy it most of the times for my MacBooks.
 

Hellhammer

Moderator emeritus
Dec 10, 2008
22,166
581
Finland
Great to see that they follow the law. In any case I guess it is much easier to get stuff repaired if you have AppleCare. At least I buy it most of the times for my MacBooks.
No offense but it's stupid to pay if laws are giving you the same rights. I know that some countries, especially the US, don't have such laws but in countries that have, you should just take advantage of the legal system. Otherwise we wouldn't have lawsuits like this and companies would keep ripping off people.
 

iScott428

macrumors regular
Feb 23, 2011
230
0
Orlando, FL
Prices look really high, can anyone else in a eurozone country confirm that those prices are much higher than normal? 120 Euro for ATV is really expensive and it looks like Apple has just rolled that extra year of warranty into the prices.
 

Hellhammer

Moderator emeritus
Dec 10, 2008
22,166
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Finland
Prices look really high, can anyone else in a eurozone country confirm that those prices are much higher than normal? 120 Euro for ATV is really expensive and it looks like Apple has just rolled that extra year of warranty into the prices.
Euro prices have VAT included in them, while the US prices are tax-free (sales tax will be added depending on the state).
 

Carlanga

macrumors 604
Nov 5, 2009
7,013
1,300
How can you call a hyperlink of font size 10 in black prominent... Sure is in the middle on top of pictures of the items, but it should be at least in red and in bigger letters or with a border like MR created for the pic :roll eyes:
 

Patrick J

macrumors 65816
Mar 12, 2009
1,434
7
Oporto, Portugal
Law in Portugal also states 2 years warranty for all Electronics.

Apple only offers one, although Apple shops carry forms for you to fill in to “force” Apple into giving the 2 year warranty.

You have to know about this though. Why don’t we see similar lawsuits in other European countries?
 

Hellhammer

Moderator emeritus
Dec 10, 2008
22,166
581
Finland
Law in Portugal also states 2 years warranty for all Electronics.

Apple only offers one, although Apple shops carry forms for you to fill in to “force” Apple into giving the 2 year warranty.

You have to know about this though. Why don’t we see similar lawsuits in other European countries?
Because it's not a law in all countries. Here in Finland, the law doesn't require manufacturers/sellers to give any warranty, but it states that the manufacturer must guarantee a reasonable lifespan for the product. If the lifespan is not met, then the manufacturer is responsible for fixing it. The "reasonable lifespan" is fairly case specific, but our consumer protection bureau has stated that two years should be the minimum lifespan for a computer. For a high-end computer, that can be more because it should last longer.
 

aristokrat

macrumors regular
Apr 15, 2007
184
7
Apple should take the argument to the consumers and see if they really want to pay for these laws. Raise the price of every item to include (or almost include) the price of AppleCare and change the branding to say "Now with AppleCare included". Then when people ask about the increased prices, point the finger towards the Italian government and say that this is what the government, and the people by proxy, have asked for and we've merely provided your wishes.

Money doesn't come from nowhere, somebody has to pay the increased costs associated with these laws, and in truth, it's already the consumers who are footing the bill. Of course, that's a politicians worst nightmare: pointing out the concept of cause-and-effect of all of their ideas.
 

mijail

macrumors 6502a
Oct 31, 2010
535
118
Apple should take the argument to the consumers and see if they really want to pay for these laws. Raise the price of every item to include (or almost include) the price of AppleCare and change the branding to say "Now with AppleCare included". Then when people ask about the increased prices, point the finger towards the Italian government and say that this is what the government, and the people by proxy, have asked for and we've merely provided your wishes.

Money doesn't come from nowhere, somebody has to pay the increased costs associated with these laws, and in truth, it's already the consumers who are footing the bill. Of course, that's a politicians worst nightmare: pointing out the concept of cause-and-effect of all of their ideas.
Are you maybe in the US, with a somewhat republican-colored viewpoint?
Because if that is the case, I have a feeling that you are missing some european context here.

----------

How can you call a hyperlink of font size 10 in black prominent... Sure is in the middle on top of pictures of the items, but it should be at least in red and in bigger letters or with a border like MR created for the pic :roll eyes:
Seems to be the same size and bolding than the product names themselves, and in the very top of the page. Isn't that prominent?
 

CmdrLaForge

macrumors 601
Feb 26, 2003
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No offense but it's stupid to pay if laws are giving you the same rights. I know that some countries, especially the US, don't have such laws but in countries that have, you should just take advantage of the legal system. Otherwise we wouldn't have lawsuits like this and companies would keep ripping off people.
I pay because the law is absolutely not giving you the same rights. First, there is a difference between the guarantee from the manufacturer and the warranty from the law. Usually the manufacturer provides one year of guarantee, after that there is an additional 1 year (so two years in total) in which the manufacturer has to repair in case the problem was already there when the product was shipped ( no wear out of connectors etc...) and it is up to the customer to prove that !!! In Germany there are two different terms (Garantie and Gewahrleistung). The law gives you two years of Gewahrleistung not Garantie. I don't know the correct corresponding English terms, here is more info.

With AppleCare you get 3 years trouble free service and you can much more easily sell the unit on eBay because people know if they receive a unit with any problem they just call Apple and they will fix it.
 

Lennholm

macrumors 6502a
Sep 4, 2010
988
192
Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; CPU iPhone OS 5_0_1 like Mac OS X) AppleWebKit/534.46 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.1 Mobile/9A405 Safari/7534.48.3)

Carlanga said:
How can you call a hyperlink of font size 10 in black prominent... Sure is in the middle on top of pictures of the items, but it should be at least in red and in bigger letters or with a border like MR created for the pic :roll eyes:
<blink> FTW!
 

mijail

macrumors 6502a
Oct 31, 2010
535
118
I pay because the law is absolutely not giving you the same rights. First, there is a difference between the guarantee from the manufacturer and the warranty from the law. Usually the manufacturer provides one year of guarantee, after that there is an additional 1 year (so two years in total) in which the manufacturer has to repair in case the problem was already there when the product was shipped ( no wear out of connectors etc...) and it is up to the customer to prove that !!! In Germany there are two different terms (Garantie and Gewahrleistung). The law gives you two years of Gewahrleistung not Garantie. I don't know the correct corresponding English terms, here is more info.
That is also how it works in Spain, and looks like in Poland too.
 

Lennholm

macrumors 6502a
Sep 4, 2010
988
192
Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; CPU iPhone OS 5_0_1 like Mac OS X) AppleWebKit/534.46 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.1 Mobile/9A405 Safari/7534.48.3)

It's worth to note that AppleCare also gives you technical support for 2 or 3 years, which is ridiculously expensive otherwise beyond the 90 days.
Ofcourse that's irrelevant since Apple products are perfect, they just work and no one ever has any issues with them :)
 

britboyj

macrumors 6502a
Apr 8, 2009
626
613
It seems two years is a pretty standard requirement in a lot of the world for a default manufacturer's warranty. Rather than keep things different in different countries, why not just up the standard one to two years world wide?

Having your phone covered for the length of your contract by default would be a huge coup in the US versus other manufacturers.
 

Hellhammer

Moderator emeritus
Dec 10, 2008
22,166
581
Finland
I pay because the law is absolutely not giving you the same rights. First, there is a difference between the guarantee from the manufacturer and the warranty from the law. Usually the manufacturer provides one year of guarantee, after that there is an additional 1 year (so two years in total) in which the manufacturer has to repair in case the problem was already there when the product was shipped ( no wear out of connectors etc...) and it is up to the customer to prove that !!! In Germany there are two different terms (Garantie and Gewahrleistung). The law gives you two years of Gewahrleistung not Garantie. I don't know the correct corresponding English terms, here is more info.

With AppleCare you get 3 years trouble free service and you can much more easily sell the unit on eBay because people know if they receive a unit with any problem they just call Apple and they will fix it.
That's what our law says too, but it's not the way it "works" in real life. Nobody is expecting you to be able to take the machine apart and somehow magically prove that the GPU was busted. Nobody has the equipment for that. What you might have to show is that there is no physical damage that could have broken the machine, i.e. no dents, cracks, spills etc. If your GPU dies, it's pretty obvious that it's the manufacturer's fault, unless you spilled something on it. If you have a huge dent/crack on the machine and go complain about a malfunctioning USB port, then it's different.

I've gotten several devices fixed using our laws. Nobody has ever asked me to "prove" that I didn't break it.
 

taxiapple

macrumors regular
Jun 9, 2009
189
19
Applecare includes phone support

I think Applecare has value beyond just repair coverage, it also includes phone support that starts in 90 days and goes for three years.

I've used phone support a lot and I recommend Applecare to many people (especially ones new to Mac) for that reason.
 

gnasher729

macrumors P6
Nov 25, 2005
16,647
3,315
No offense but it's stupid to pay if laws are giving you the same rights. I know that some countries, especially the US, don't have such laws but in countries that have, you should just take advantage of the legal system. Otherwise we wouldn't have lawsuits like this and companies would keep ripping off people.
The laws, even in Italy, don't give you _the same_ rights. They just give you slightly better rights then you might think.

Apple warranty: 1 year unless Apple shows that the problem is your fault.
AppleCare: 3 years unless Apple shows that the problem is your fault.

The Law: 6 months unless Apple shows that the problem is your fault.
A reasonable time / 2 years in Italy if you show that the problem isn't your fault.

So the law gives you more than Apple's warranty, but less than AppleCare. The point is that Apple should have told customers that they have more rights than Apple's warranty, but that doesn't make AppleCare worthless.
 

mijail

macrumors 6502a
Oct 31, 2010
535
118
I've gotten several devices fixed using our laws. Nobody has ever asked me to "prove" that I didn't break it.
In Spain, I was told that on the second year an "expert" (paid by me) would have to decide/declare if it should be considered my fault or not.
I didn't finally need to go that route, so I don't know how difficult or expensive that would turn out to be (or if true at all)
 

Carlanga

macrumors 604
Nov 5, 2009
7,013
1,300
...Seems to be the same size and bolding than the product names themselves, and in the very top of the page. Isn't that prominent?
Which is why is not prominent since its lost with the rest of the titles. By definition something prominent is something that stands out so as to be seen easily from the rest, that projects or is protuberant. ;)


<blink> FTW!
:D When I read it I was expecting something with bigger letters or at least some color.
 

charlituna

macrumors G3
Jun 11, 2008
9,629
811
Los Angeles, CA
Usually the manufacturer provides one year of guarantee, after that there is an additional 1 year (so two years in total) in which the manufacturer has to repair in case the problem was already there when the product was shipped ( no wear out of connectors etc...) and it is up to the customer to prove that !!!
That's a very important point. Because if that is true in Italy then this isn't really a 'warranty' at all but an extended lemon law. Whereas Apple Care doesn't care when the defect happened only if it was caused by the customer damaging the machine or not (and if it is obvious). If you happen to spill water in your machine but it can't be proven and you don't admit to it then they can't say it happened and they will repair the issue.

All that said, I won't be shocked if Apple just pays the fine and walks away. It's a pittance anyway
 

thundersteele

macrumors 68030
Oct 19, 2011
2,984
7
Switzerland
Because it's not a law in all countries. Here in Finland, the law doesn't require manufacturers/sellers to give any warranty, but it states that the manufacturer must guarantee a reasonable lifespan for the product. If the lifespan is not met, then the manufacturer is responsible for fixing it. The "reasonable lifespan" is fairly case specific, but our consumer protection bureau has stated that two years should be the minimum lifespan for a computer. For a high-end computer, that can be more because it should last longer.
There is some europe wide protection:

http://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/shopping/shopping-abroad/guarantees/index_en.htm

Sometime ago I found a nice pdf brochure that explained it with a few more details, but I couldn't find it anymore. Italian rights might provide additional protection, but some basic 2 year warranty is valid throughout europe.

After I found out, I checked to see what other PC vendors do. Asian vendors (Lenovo, Sony) properly mention the two year warranty on their german online stores, and properly sell their extended warranties as +1 year (and phone support etc...). American vendors (I checked Apple and Dell) don't provide this information, and pretend that there is only a 1 year base warranty on all purchases.
 

justperry

macrumors G4
Aug 10, 2007
10,317
5,573
I'm a rolling stone.
There is some europe wide protection:

http://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/shopping/shopping-abroad/guarantees/index_en.htm

Sometime ago I found a nice pdf brochure that explained it with a few more details, but I couldn't find it anymore. Italian rights might provide additional protection, but some basic 2 year warranty is valid throughout europe.

After I found out, I checked to see what other PC vendors do. Asian vendors (Lenovo, Sony) properly mention the two year warranty on their german online stores, and properly sell their extended warranties as +1 year (and phone support etc...). American vendors (I checked Apple and Dell) don't provide this information, and pretend that there is only a 1 year base warranty on all purchases.
You should read this thread after Apple got fined in December in Italy.

http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=1298155

The article in your link is misleading.