Apple Q4 Results and Notes

MacRumors

macrumors bot
Original poster
Apr 12, 2001
46,727
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Apple webcast their Q4 2002 Financial Results:

Press Release: Apple® today announced financial results for its fiscal 2002 fourth quarter ended September 28, 2002. For the quarter, the Company posted a net loss of $45 million, or $.13 per share. These results compare to a net profit of $66 million, or $.19 per diluted share, in the year-ago quarter. Revenues for the quarter were $1.44 billion, flat with the year ago quarter, and gross margins were 26.4 percent, down from 30.1 percent in the year-ago quarter. International sales accounted for 35 percent of the quarter’s revenues.

MacNN provides detailed notes from the conference call, noting that PowerBook and PowerMac sales are sluggish.
 

bobindashadows

macrumors 6502
Mar 16, 2002
419
0
Hmm... I read at i think www.apple-x.net that Apple had a bunch of reasons as to where the money went, and that if those circumstances had been reversed then they actually would have had a profit of $7 million. Still sucks, though. At least the whole industry is feeling it (as far as i know)

I think i got the first post this time!
 

e-coli

macrumors 68000
Jul 27, 2002
1,837
801
Re: Apple Q4 Results and Notes

Originally posted by Macrumors
PowerBook and PowerMac sales are sluggish.


hmmm....could that be because the not-so-Power-Macs are slow and overpriced?

no....surely not.
:rolleyes:
 

carta

macrumors newbie
May 21, 2002
22
0
Madison, AL
CRT ieMacs are strong

Just read MacInTouch's analysis of the quarterly results. Seems that the CRT-based iMac and the eMac swamped the new LCD iMac in sales.

I suppose that a percentage of eMac sales belongs to the education market. But I wondered if people who bought an all-in-one would rather go for a kid-proof CRT model as opposed to the delicate LCD model.

Shopping between an iMac and eMac recently, I thought that perhaps the new iMac design was not going to be with us as long as the CRT variety. The eMac looks more stable, rugged, and unstealable.
 

shadowfax

macrumors 603
Sep 6, 2002
5,849
0
Houston, TX
they really need to update those darn powerbooks. who would pay 3200$ for just better than imac level performance? it's unfeasible. we need 933 MHz/1 GHz and radeon 9000 THIS MONTH. urgh
 

weezer

macrumors newbie
Sep 23, 2002
2
0
All I have to say about powerbook sales being slow is duh!

Bring us an update, and sales will increase. . .
 

Macette

macrumors 6502
Mar 5, 2002
472
0
Melbourne
waiting..

it's forums like this that screw apple :)

we all 'know' that something big is just around the corner, so why buy now? this has been a particularly bad quarter in that respect, and it's only going to get worse until the G4 gets bumped for something EXCITING and NEW.

come on apple. i'm bored with waiting.
 

impierced

macrumors 6502
Sep 30, 2002
273
0
Re: waiting..

Originally posted by Macette
it's forums like this that screw apple :)

we all 'know' that something big is just around the corner, so why buy now? this has been a particularly bad quarter in that respect, and it's only going to get worse until the G4 gets bumped for something EXCITING and NEW.

come on apple. i'm bored with waiting.
Yeah I know something big is just around the corner, I've known for the past 4 years, but amazingly it never shows it's face.
 

Maclicious

macrumors regular
Oct 10, 2002
106
0
Seattle
waiting

I'm sitting here waiting to jump on a powerbook, when an upgrade comes. But, I'm greedy. I'm worried there will be yet another update in March-April or thereabouts. And now with the 64 bit chip... I'm wondering if I shouldn't wait another year and more through.... Then again, it's hard to play Warcraft III on my iBook--a little too jerky. I think Santa will be bringing me a new powerbook, whatever it is, come December :).
 

ibrainch

macrumors regular
Oct 2, 2002
136
0
Chicago, IL
announcement next week

Last year Apple announced the iPod the week after earnings. I would suspect the same this time, if all rumors are true - question is will it just be upgrade or new device? It seems like the new pda/phone rumors are starting to die though. Also, I didn't hear anything about pc iPod sales? Did anyone hear anything about these numbers? They did mention something about a lot of ipods and ibooks under christmas trees...
 

arn

macrumors god
Staff member
Apr 9, 2001
14,499
1,783
Re: waiting

Originally posted by Maclicious
I'm sitting here waiting to jump on a powerbook, when an upgrade comes. But, I'm greedy. I'm worried there will be yet another update in March-April or thereabouts. And now with the 64 bit chip... I'm wondering if I shouldn't wait another year and more through.... .
There will always be another update in 6-9 months... no matter when you buy.

If you follow this logic, you will never get a new computer. Get one after a new release and you'll have the longest life with that particular machine.

arn
 

arn

macrumors god
Staff member
Apr 9, 2001
14,499
1,783
Re: announcement next week

Originally posted by ibrainch
Last year Apple announced the iPod the week after earnings. I would suspect the same this time, if all rumors are true - question is will it just be upgrade or new device? It seems like the new pda/phone rumors are starting to die though. Also, I didn't hear anything about pc iPod sales? Did anyone hear anything about these numbers? They did mention something about a lot of ipods and ibooks under christmas trees...
The MacNN article linked in the original article quotes all the figures.

arn
 

bidge

macrumors 6502
Jul 16, 2002
286
0
New Zealand
Re: Re: waiting

Originally posted by arn


There will always be another update in 6-9 months... no matter when you buy.

If you follow this logic, you will never get a new computer. Get one after a new release and you'll have the longest life with that particular machine.

arn
Or if you got a FP imac at the very beginning of the year, you will still be having life out of it...

4:25 minutes through it says 50,000 PC iPods.

All MP3 players sold in Japan was made up of 42% iPods.
 

MacBandit

macrumors 604
Yeah Apple lower your pices. Reduce your margins and make less money. Go further in the hole. Go out of business.

Some people don't get it. Also the current line of PowerMac are the best buy Apple has ever had the most power for the dollar. They are also all priced lower then the ones they replaced and 2 of the three models are now dual where the previous models were single processor.

I personally have spent a lot of time pricing PCs and if you add up everything you get with a Mac and get a PC with comparable hardware you end up with a PC costing withing a couple hundred dollars of any of the tower except the top one. This though has always been the case if you want the fastes you will always pay the most by a large margin.
 

superfoo

macrumors newbie
Oct 15, 2002
19
0
No, Apple *DOES* need to lower their prices, and No, a similarly configured PC is not even close to the price of a Mac... it is A LOT less than a Mac.

Example, the closest configured Dell Inspiron 8200 laptop to an Apple PowerBook Ti 800MHz is almost $1,000.00 less!

Dell system:

- Inspiron 8200
- 1.8GHz P4 CPU (about the same as the G4 800MHz, maybe even a little better)
- 15.0" UXGA display (which, while not as "wide" as the PB display, does a higher resolution.)
- 768MB DDR RAM (I chose this rather than 1GB, as DDR RAM is faster and more expensive than the SDRAM that the PB uses)
- 60GB 5200RPM hard drive
- DVD/CDRW drive
- Internal 802.11b wireless
- Internal 10/100 LAN (yes, I know the PB is 10/100/1000, so we'll give another $100 to the Dell price to compensate for this)
- Internal 56kbps modem
- 32MB 4xAGB Nvidia GeForce 2
- Same type of 1yr warranty as with the PB

COST: $2362.00 with current promotions accounted for + $100 for lack of 10/100/1000 = $2462.00

Apple System:
- 800MHz PowerPC G4
- 1GB SDRAM
- 60GB Ultra ATA drive
- AirPort Card
- DVD-ROM/CD-RW Combo
- LAN, modem, etc., etc.

COST: $3,439.00 with current promotions accounted for

I want desperately to get an Apple portable... As an avid Linux and BSD user, OSX is EXACTLY what I am looking for....

I get the solid UNIX core that I use Linux and BSD for to begin with, plus, I get good hardware support, industry standard software support, and a great GUI... The lacking of these features (with the exception of the GUI), is what prevents my using ONLY Linux or ONLY BSD for both my business and personal computing...

I have $4000 burning a hole in my wallet (well, credit card anyway) just waiting to buy an Apple portable, but with the glaring over-inflated prices and comparably lousy hardware specs, I REFUSE to buy an Apple portable until they wake up and upgrade their products.

(edited to fix typos)
 

MacBandit

macrumors 604
Originally posted by superfoo
No, Apple *DOES* need to lower their prices, and No, a similarly configured PC is not even close to the price of a Mac... it is A LOT less than a Mac.

Example, the closest configured Dell Inspiron 8200 laptop to an Apple PowerBook Ti 800MHz is almost $1,000.00 less!

Dell system:

- Inspiron 8200
- 1.8GHz P4 CPU (about the same as the G4 800MHz, maybe even a little better)
- 15.0" UXGA display (which, while not as "wide" as the PB display, does a higher resolution.)
- 768MB DDR RAM (I chose this rather than 1GB, as DDR RAM is faster and more expensive than the SDRAM that the PB uses)
- 60GB 5200RPM hard drive
- DVD/CDRW drive
- Internal 802.11b wireless
- Internal 10/100 LAN (yes, I know the PB is 10/100/1000, so we'll give another $100 to the Dell price to compensate for this)
- Internal 56kbps modem
- 32MB 4xAGB Nvidia GeForce 2
- Same type of 1yr warranty as with the PB

COST: $2362.00 with current promotions accounted for + $100 for lack of 10/100/1000 = $2462.00

Apple System:
- 800MHz PowerPC G4
- 1GB SDRAM
- 60GB Ultra ATA drive
- AirPort Card
- DVD-ROM/CD-RW Combo
- LAN, modem, etc., etc.

COST: $3,439.00 with current promotions accounted for

I want desperately to get an Apple portable... As an avid Linux and BSD user, OSX is EXACTLY what I am looking for....

I get the solid UNIX core that I use Linux and BSD for to begin with, plus, I get good hardware support, industry standard software support, and a great GUI... The lacking of these features (with the exception of the GUI), is what prevents my using ONLY Linux or ONLY BSD for both my business and personal computing...

I have $4000 burning a hole in my wallet (well, credit card anyway) just waiting to buy an Apple portable, but with the glaring over-inflated prices and comparably lousy hardware specs, I REFUSE to buy an Apple portable until they wake up and upgrade their products.

(edited to fix typos)
Sorry I haven't been shopping laptops so I haven't compared prices on them. I do know that desktop prices are very close.

Also I would not consider a low power version of the P4 at 1.8 to even be in the same ball park as a full on 800Mhz G4.
 

superfoo

macrumors newbie
Oct 15, 2002
19
0
Originally posted by MacBandit


Sorry I haven't been shopping laptops so I haven't compared prices on them. I do know that desktop prices are very close.

Also I would not consider a low power version of the P4 at 1.8 to even be in the same ball park as a full on 800Mhz G4.
Sorry, now that I look at your origional post, I see that you mentioned PowerMacs... I was really anticipating an update to the PBs and have laptops on the brain :) .... Also, from the research that I have done, a P4 1.8GHz is comprable to a G4 800MHz.
 

MacBandit

macrumors 604
Originally posted by superfoo


Sorry, now that I look at your origional post, I see that you mentioned PowerMacs... I was really anticipating an update to the PBs and have laptops on the brain :) .... Also, from the research that I have done, a P4 1.8GHz is comprable to a G4 800MHz.
You might be right. It's just that all the tests I've seen of PC laptops to Mac Laptops show the G4 on top no matter what the PC Laptop has in it.
 

shadowfax

macrumors 603
Sep 6, 2002
5,849
0
Houston, TX
while i agree that powerbooks need updating and are about 400$ overpriced right now, i don't think you [superfoo, or anyone for that matter] should be comparing them to Dells. dell is really not a very good laptop manufacturer. they shine in bulky desktop design; my old dell p3 is unbelievably quiet and cool (except when the hard drive clunks). in laptops, you will find that the main premium you pay for is compression. that is why the powerbook costs so much more than, say, the 17 inch imac with most of the same specs. on a powerbook. you are getting quite literally almost double the compression of the dell laptops. of course it is going to be more expensive. have you looked at the alienware laptops with the desktop processor in them?

so as i said, they are not too heavily overpriced... try comparing to an IBM thinkpad T30... that's the only PC laptop i have seen that comes close to the powerbook's zen of performance and portability. my dad works for dell. i am not dissing them. they do try on their laptops, but they are after the wrong market or something. in japan, they have less than 1% of the notebook market. i don't have any clue what apple has there, but i can imagine it's considerably more.
 

superfoo

macrumors newbie
Oct 15, 2002
19
0
Originally posted by Shadowfax
while i agree that powerbooks need updating and are about 400$ overpriced right now, i don't think you [superfoo, or anyone for that matter] should be comparing them to Dells. dell is really not a very good laptop manufacturer. they shine in bulky desktop design; my old dell p3 is unbelievably quiet and cool (except when the hard drive clunks). in laptops, you will find that the main premium you pay for is compression. that is why the powerbook costs so much more than, say, the 17 inch imac with most of the same specs. on a powerbook. you are getting quite literally almost double the compression of the dell laptops. of course it is going to be more expensive. have you looked at the alienware laptops with the desktop processor in them?

so as i said, they are not too heavily overpriced... try comparing to an IBM thinkpad T30... that's the only PC laptop i have seen that comes close to the powerbook's zen of performance and portability. my dad works for dell. i am not dissing them. they do try on their laptops, but they are after the wrong market or something. in japan, they have less than 1% of the notebook market. i don't have any clue what apple has there, but i can imagine it's considerably more.
The compression point that you mention is a very good one... I'm a bit more of a function over form kind of guy for the most part, so I never even thought about that... On the other hand, the "compression" ratio on the PowerBook vs the Dell isn't something that I think is worth almost $600.

I would say though, that you are right in the price comparison to the "ultra portables" of the PC world not being as greatly divided as with the "portable" PCs.

On an off note, I did LAN support for my previous employer (Earthlink), and ALL we bought our employees for laptops were Dell Latitude series systems... I can say from that experience that they were very solid, durable, and reliable systems. I now personally have a Dell Inspiron 8200 w/ a 1.6GHz P4 + 1600x1200 15" UXGA+ display, which as lived up to that same standard. Even while my Dell is hitting eBay as soon as I buy a new PowerBook (if/)when they come out this year, I do have to disagree with your assessment that Dell is a poor laptop mfg.

Anyhow, thanks for the feedback.
 

bkassing

macrumors newbie
Jul 18, 2002
20
0
pb prices

Yes, you CAN compare Apple PB to Dell.

I have a 3 year old Inspiron 7000. I am a consultant who travels every week. I use my laptop for e-mail and your basic office work (MS OFFICE). And of course some fun stuff like DVDs and games (well...not on a 3 year old computer). I know that my Inspiron was made better 3 years ago than new ones today. The warranty was 3 years! Now, you have to pay for it to get it and they are a lot more reluctant to fix warranty issues (from people whom I work with that have newer Dells).

Less than 1% of the market? What crack are you smoking? Not possible.

I have a mac at home and have been on mac at home forever. I want a powerbook. $3,200 for a PB800 stinks. It is $1,000 overpriced. Sure a burner in it laptop is nice, but really, how many DVD's are you going to burn? Do you do it every day? Once per week? Why not lower the price and just put a DVD drive in? Airport card? Make it an option? What if I don't have or want wireless? (I do).

So for someone like myself who uses my PB to travel, e-mail, web, MS office.....why would I pay a huge premium for a 9 month old Apple? If it was faster by a long shot, yep! But it is not. So only 512K Ram, decent processor and $1000 overpriced with no "specials" from Apple to incent me (bundles with IPOD, etc).

I love Apple. I'd much rather use it. But not now. I'm still using my tired ole slow piece of crap 80 pound laptop until Apple give me a competive offering.
 

e-coli

macrumors 68000
Jul 27, 2002
1,837
801
Originally posted by j763
you get what you pay for... truly the world's best operating system (i'd never use anything else).
yes, true. But the hardware certainly isn't the world's best. So they should crank up the price on the operating system and quit making people pay through the nose for the hardware.

just my opinion.
 

blogo

macrumors 6502
Apr 1, 2002
290
0
Re: pb prices

Originally posted by bkassing
Yes, you CAN compare Apple PB to Dell.

I have a 3 year old Inspiron 7000. I am a consultant who travels every week. I use my laptop for e-mail and your basic office work (MS OFFICE). And of course some fun stuff like DVDs and games (well...not on a 3 year old computer). I know that my Inspiron was made better 3 years ago than new ones today. The warranty was 3 years! Now, you have to pay for it to get it and they are a lot more reluctant to fix warranty issues (from people whom I work with that have newer Dells).

Less than 1% of the market? What crack are you smoking? Not possible.

I have a mac at home and have been on mac at home forever. I want a powerbook. $3,200 for a PB800 stinks. It is $1,000 overpriced. Sure a burner in it laptop is nice, but really, how many DVD's are you going to burn? Do you do it every day? Once per week? Why not lower the price and just put a DVD drive in? Airport card? Make it an option? What if I don't have or want wireless? (I do).

So for someone like myself who uses my PB to travel, e-mail, web, MS office.....why would I pay a huge premium for a 9 month old Apple? If it was faster by a long shot, yep! But it is not. So only 512K Ram, decent processor and $1000 overpriced with no "specials" from Apple to incent me (bundles with IPOD, etc).

I love Apple. I'd much rather use it. But not now. I'm still using my tired ole slow piece of crap 80 pound laptop until Apple give me a competive offering.
2 mistakes here

1. You can't burn DVD's on the PowerBook, just CD's

2. It comes with 512mb ram not 512k