Apple Says All-New Modular Mac Pro With Apple-Branded High-End Pro Display Coming After 2017

[spaz8]

If it comes out in 2018 my guess is December I'm just glad there will be something to buy in 2 yrs or so. I was really wondering if my Trashcan was the last MP. Now if Apple gives us an Nvidia GPU option in the initial configs that would be something. Having to shell out another grand for a external TB3 GPU casing kinda sucks for the cost and bandwidth/port loss.. Hence why I bought a GTX for my old Dell instead and moved my Machine learning work to Windows 10.

 

[PinkyMacGodess]

They did a pyramid / cone design already?

Ooooo...

Not that I know of. But all that 'pyramid power' hype from the 70's and 80's is not going to play well in the New Corporate Apple. But, a toroid isn't likely to play well either. Apparently the 'trash can' didn't now. They could make it bigger, and make parts upgradable (memory, drives, GPU)...

 

[Anto38x]

I'm very proud of Apple for stepping out of their normal cloak of secrecy and for pre-announcing the new 2018 MacPro to the MacPro Community. This is a very very welcome announcement for the likes of me as a hardcore, devoted Apple customer and I for one am really looking forward to the innovations and sheer horsepower the new MacPro 2018 is going to bring. BRING IT ON!!!

 

[SteveW928]

Why is everyone so delighted at the prospect of waiting up to a YEAR or more for new Mac Pros? What the hell has Apple been doing the past couple of years? Y'all have Stockholm syndrome.

No doubt. But, I guess the excitement (for me) is that we've somehow gotten their attention. They might be just buying some time, but at least they are doing something. With silence, it's hard to tell what is going on. This will give us something concrete to judge them by.

I understand your love of the macPro but stating thas Apple has lost its way, and is doomed, because they did not update a mac that sells about 10000 ' s a year, is not really worrying, even understandable.
Perhaps not to MacPro users, but you are a tiny drop of water compared to the mainstream market. No offense...
My main concern is that there has been no update on the macmini for all these years, no new entry level mac for the bigger market.

Are you channeling Tim there?
It's about eco-systems, not pie-charts. It would be worth making them if they only sold 100, if those 100 were crucial to the whole. Where do you think all the apps for iOS devices come from? What about all the artists and production houses where the content comes from? What about Apple's image and brand of being for the creatives?
Remember when Apple put tons of money into education, even though it wasn't a primary profit source? Or, how about Ford, etc. putting all that money into race cars of which they only make a few?

It's often more about big-picture, and not just spreadsheets.

if they do some b$ where u cant pop in a standard nvidia gpu, memory and drives,
then i'm definitely done with apple.

I hope I'm wrong, but I doubt we'll see the cheese-grater return. Like you said, that would be easy... they could have that done next week (or could have had it done 2 years ago!).

I'm betting the modular comment is quite telling. Also, Craig made some response in regards to eGPUs that was a bit hedgy... kind of like, IMO... that's coming, just not how you think. Maybe think along the lines of an Apple eGPU 'module' that you can add to chain extra GPUs on. That's my read on it all.

They could even have taken the design and offer a "consumer hardware" flavor as the often-demanded xMac.

There is a third option: Expansion without cables (i.e. proprietary internal connectors) and via plug-and-play "Lego" boxes (see my earlier post).

Yes, that would be my guess in some form or another as well. It might be cable interconnected (vs 'lego') but where you buy a core module (which might be enough for some) and then add on power and expansion, especially GPU. With TB3, that approach is starting to finally make sense.

Also, regarding xMac, unfortunately I think we have that and it's called an iMac.

Perhaps a similar, but smaller version of the old, aluminum, 'radiator style' MacPro will make a comeback. "Modular" is a nice promise by Phil, but that doesn't necessarily mean user upgradeable, the latter being on many pro user's wish list.

As far as the supposedly beefed-up next gen iMac is concerned, I wonder if we'll finally see desktop graphics in those, which would almost certainly mean a thicker iMac ...

Yes, modular doesn't necessarily mean user upgradable. As I said above, I think Craig hinted at that when asked about eGPUs. Apple will probably go eGPU, just not necessarily give easy support to 3rd party eGPUs.

That said, I'm not sure most pros necessarily want user upgradable. That's more the hobbyist. Most of the true pros don't much care if they can swap in the latest GPU if they could just buy one in another form and plug it in. They just want the end result.

re: iMac - the problem is that these machines aren't really made for true hard pro use. They are meant for heavy use from time to time, but not big 24x7 crunching jobs. But, Apple's definition of pro has changed considerably, from a pro type of equipment to pro, as in a user using it for job duties (rather than home use).

The Mini is merely a product that Apple sells? No comment beyond that? Sounds like they haven't even thought about upgrades, i.e. it sounds dead!

Well, I think that's the underlying tone of this whole thing. They had a better mini back in 2012. There's no reason the current mini could't be as good as previous ones! I'm sure they'll pump another one out. But, I think it says a lot about this whole thing... it's 'throwing an bone' not real commitment.

And the hardware teams just sat around doing nothing but putting things into cardboard boxes for the moving, while the management was looking at what trees to plant?

Well, they worked hard on iPhones and a bit on tablets. But, yes. I've been through corporate moves, and it is a fairly big distraction. But, I think the lack of commitment to the Mac is a much bigger thing than moving distraction.

I think it's more to placate Schiller and other Apple engineers. They can afford to lose their pro market but they cannot afford to lose their top engineers. Apple could lose their entire pro market and nothing would change for them revenue-wise.

I don't think they can afford to lose their pro market (at least not yet, if ever). However, I'm not sure Tim is a big enough thinker to realize that. I see this as damage control.

If Apple lost their pro market, yes, it wouldn't make an *immediate* big change in revenue. But, have you heard of the butterfly-effect? In the long run, it would devastate them. But again, I don't think the 'new' Apple cares about the long run.

 

[Gazember]

"I see this as damage control."

Yes, there has been an exodus of the professional Apple product users to Windows where you can always have the latest drivers for the most powerful item you think you need.

This is a company sitting on billions that they are not investing to stay in the desktop/workstation/professional market. People actually have to dump them to realize users demand a different direction. How wise is that?

Lowering prices (or adding features) of the current Mac Pro line shows these items are NOT selling today.

 

[ValO]

No doubt. But, I guess the excitement (for me) is that we've somehow gotten their attention. They might be just buying some time, but at least they are doing something. With silence, it's hard to tell what is going on. This will give us something concrete to judge them by.



Are you channeling Tim there?
It's about eco-systems, not pie-charts. It would be worth making them if they only sold 100, if those 100 were crucial to the whole. Where do you think all the apps for iOS devices come from? What about all the artists and production houses where the content comes from? What about Apple's image and brand of being for the creatives?
Remember when Apple put tons of money into education, even though it wasn't a primary profit source? Or, how about Ford, etc. putting all that money into race cars of which they only make a few?

It's often more about big-picture, and not just spreadsheets.

So all apps are developed on macPro' s?
If so, do you need more than the 2013 macpro for a 2014x1536 res ipad ?
Or isn' t it powerfull enough and needs 8 cores, dual xeons to emulate an ipad/iphone?


I hope I'm wrong, but I doubt we'll see the cheese-grater return. Like you said, that would be easy... they could have that done next week (or could have had it done 2 years ago!).

I'm betting the modular comment is quite telling. Also, Craig made some response in regards to eGPUs that was a bit hedgy... kind of like, IMO... that's coming, just not how you think. Maybe think along the lines of an Apple eGPU 'module' that you can add to chain extra GPUs on. That's my read on it all.



Yes, that would be my guess in some form or another as well. It might be cable interconnected (vs 'lego') but where you buy a core module (which might be enough for some) and then add on power and expansion, especially GPU. With TB3, that approach is starting to finally make sense.

Also, regarding xMac, unfortunately I think we have that and it's called an iMac.



Yes, modular doesn't necessarily mean user upgradable. As I said above, I think Craig hinted at that when asked about eGPUs. Apple will probably go eGPU, just not necessarily give easy support to 3rd party eGPUs.

That said, I'm not sure most pros necessarily want user upgradable. That's more the hobbyist. Most of the true pros don't much care if they can swap in the latest GPU if they could just buy one in another form and plug it in. They just want the end result.

re: iMac - the problem is that these machines aren't really made for true hard pro use. They are meant for heavy use from time to time, but not big 24x7 crunching jobs. But, Apple's definition of pro has changed considerably, from a pro type of equipment to pro, as in a user using it for job duties (rather than home use).



Well, I think that's the underlying tone of this whole thing. They had a better mini back in 2012. There's no reason the current mini could't be as good as previous ones! I'm sure they'll pump another one out. But, I think it says a lot about this whole thing... it's 'throwing an bone' not real commitment.



Well, they worked hard on iPhones and a bit on tablets. But, yes. I've been through corporate moves, and it is a fairly big distraction. But, I think the lack of commitment to the Mac is a much bigger thing than moving distraction.



I don't think they can afford to lose their pro market (at least not yet, if ever). However, I'm not sure Tim is a big enough thinker to realize that. I see this as damage control.

If Apple lost their pro market, yes, it wouldn't make an *immediate* big change in revenue. But, have you heard of the butterfly-effect? In the long run, it would devastate them. But again, I don't think the 'new' Apple cares about the long run.

 

[smirking]

What do they all do all day at Apple apart from tinker with new iPhones and choose soft furnishings for their new palace?

Ummm, have you ever worked on software, networking, servers, and the maintenance and upgrading of all of those? They may be a big company, but they're not omnipotent. There's so much armchair CEO'ing going on here. It reminds me of sports forums where everyone knows more than the GM of teams worth upwards of a billion US dollars. Everything is so easy. The only person who can't figure it out is Tim Cook, right?
[doublepost=1491416750][/doublepost]

bottomline : USE STANDARDS, STOP DESIGNING!!!

Oh yeah, that'll go over well with the MacRumors crowd.

I think you just need to get a Windows PC and not have all this stress.

 

[SteveW928]

This is a company sitting on billions that they are not investing to stay in the desktop/workstation/professional market. People actually have to dump them to realize users demand a different direction. How wise is that?

Exactly. While their hands have been a bit tied by Intel's timeline and other factors, this is an overall problem, not just a bit of neglect to a particular model in the lineup. If it had been truly about meeting a segment of user needs, they could have just tossed new components into the previous gen case and the problem would have been solved.

IMO, they prematurely started to slack off on the Mac too soon (before they could more cleanly get rid of it), which caused a huge outcry, and now they are trying to stem some of that off.

And certainly, they aren't stupid. THAT is what really worries me. This wasn't really an 'ooops.' It was an over-focus on other priorities that they though they could get away with with less outcry.

So all apps are developed on macPro' s?
If so, do you need more than the 2013 macpro for a 2014x1536 res ipad ?
Or isn' t it powerfull enough and needs 8 cores, dual xeons to emulate an ipad/iphone?

That seems to be what you wrote in the post above... maybe you can fix the quoting?

Anyway, I'm not sure if you realize the power required for some of the development and production processes. I was just reading an article the other day comparing the time to compile software on Mac Pro vs other Mac systems... and if memory serves, it was in terms of hours!

I've done a good bit of work in 3D animation, which again, is measured in hours and days, typically. If you can get a 10% boost, that might save a day on a bigger job. If you can throw 4-6 more cores at it and a real GPU (or several), it might double-tripple-quadruple your workflow speed.

In the real pro market, these things matter in a big way. Sure, for 'pro' users working on their startup blog from the coffee shop, not so much. It's the difference between 'pro' machine, and 'pro' use. A pro machine used to mean something. A 'pro' user, on the other hand, might be able to get a job done with a Chromebook, or need a 12-core tower, depending on what 'pro' job we're talking about.

Ummm, have you ever worked on software, networking, servers, and the maintenance and upgrading of all of those? They may be a big company, but they're not omnipotent. There's so much armchair CEO'ing going on here. It reminds me of sports forums where everyone knows more than the GM of teams worth upwards of a billion US dollars. Everything is so easy. The only person who can't figure it out is Tim Cook, right?

Yes, as I said above, they aren't stupid. That worries me all the more, as they made these decisions in light of a lot of high-powered people and knowledge.

And, when I look at their overall work on the Mac platform in the last 5 years, it sends a clear message regarding priorities. While they might have miscalculated a bit in terms of multiple GPUs vs a single more powerful one.... many of the other decisions weren't 'oops' type situations.

I also don't have to be the CEO of the most valuable company on the planet to know you'll have a different outcome via pie-charts and spreadsheets, than via UX and best products being the #1 priority. That difference has played out for centuries again and again... plain for all the world to see.

 

[T'hain Esh Kelch]

You honestly think the hardware team just wanders around aimlessly or play Nintendo, until the top says "New model!", and they spring to life and create a new model in 5 days? Or did you just miss the point of the discission and jumped of my post out of context?

(Points for Malcolm though!)

 

[SteveW928]

You honestly think the hardware team just wanders around aimlessly or play Nintendo, until the top says "New model!", and they spring to life and create a new model in 5 days? Or did you just miss the point of the discission and jumped of my post out of context?

(Points for Malcolm though!)

I'm not Malcolm... but no, I don't think that. I do think they were given other priorities to work on than the Mac. They have plenty of money and talent for the current situation of the Mac not to be the case, if they really wanted it to be otherwise.

 

[smirking]

Yes, as I said above, they aren't stupid. That worries me all the more, as they made these decisions in light of a lot of high-powered people and knowledge.

Yep, there are very valid reasons to be concerned or upset. It's just the constant drumbeat of "come-on how hard could this possibly be?" gets really really old. The answer: it's way harder than most people think it is... way harder.

 

[Rustus Maximus]

You honestly think the hardware team just wanders around aimlessly or play Nintendo, until the top says "New model!", and they spring to life and create a new model in 5 days? Or did you just miss the point of the discission and jumped of my post out of context?

I know they're working T'hain...the point is it obviously hasn't been on the Mac side of their business. Look at their lineup T'hain. As for the Pro, although I know you're just being facetious, it hasn't been 5 days, it's been 1202. The fact that MacRumors has the audacity to count this "bump" as an "update" and recommend a "buy now" is beyond me. For many Mac Pro fans, the ones this hat in hand moment by Apple is aimed at, the "days since last update" won't stop racking up until Phil's magical, ideal, "next year" arrives.

I feel that what sarge was trying to imply in his original post was that, for some reason, Apple doesn't seem very good at multitasking lately. Perhaps the construction project contributed to that. Perhaps it's just simply the hubris of being the world's richest company. Success breeds complacency and victory can often defeat you if you're not careful. That Mac product lineup should never, EVER, be all red again. Ever.

(Points for Malcolm though!)

I know it was short-lived but it was a great show and story. Thanks for the civil dialogue, we should all be "leaves on the wind. Watch how we soar!" Keep flying Wash. Keep flying.

 

[SteveW928]

Yep, there are very valid reasons to be concerned or upset. It's just the constant drumbeat of "come-on how hard could this possibly be?" gets really really old. The answer: it's way harder than most people think it is... way harder.

I'm not sure about easy. I used to work for a Fortune 100, so I get the whole 'big company = stupid' thing. But, this is even beyond that, IMO.

If Apple were really concerned and sorry, I guess I'd expect more than a news conference with a 'we'll get to it in a year or two.' The could easily reduce the price of the current Mac Pro (which they did, somewhat) and also throw some new hardware into the previous gen case as a stop-gap if it will really take two years.

And, given that they should have recognized this problem about 6 months after the nMP release (worse case... they are smart, right?), then they've already been working hard on this new solution for almost 3 years already. Does it really take a company with Apple's resources 5 years?

Something just doesn't smell right here.

I know they're working T'hain...the point is it obviously hasn't been the Mac side of their business. Look at their lineup T'hain. As for the Pro, although I know you're just being facetious, it hasn't been 5 days, it's been 1202. The fact that MacRumors has the audacity to count this "bump" as an "update" and recommend a "buy now" is beyond me. For many Mac Pro fans, the ones this hat in hand moment by Apple is aimed at, the "days since last update" won't stop racking up until Phil's magical, ideal, "next year" arrives.

I feel that what sarge was trying to imply in his original post was that, for some reason, Apple doesn't seem very good at multitasking lately. Perhaps the construction project contributed to that. Perhaps it's just simply the hubris of being the world's richest company. Success breeds complacency and victory can often defeat you if you're not careful. That Mac product lineup should never, EVER, be all red again. Ever.

Exactly. And that's just on the hardware side of things. IMO, the picture is even worse with the OS, Apple's QC, UX, etc. The only thing they've got going for them is that the grass is still greener on this side of the fence, but if something doesn't change, it won't be for long.

 

[CWallace]

And, given that they should have recognized this problem about 6 months after the nMP release (worse case... they are smart, right?), then they've already been working hard on this new solution for almost 3 years already. Does it really take a company with Apple's resources 5 years?

Something just doesn't smell right here.

I read the entire transcript of the event and while they refused to be drawn out on when exactly they knew the Mac Pro was no longer a viable platform, it was pretty clear from their comments it took more than six months (though it was also clear they didn't decide the day before the meeting, either).

A portion of the community may have thought it was junk the day they announced it at WWDC, but Apple and Mac leadership clearly believed they had developed something special and therefore they were not going to have a "come to Jesus" moment weeks later.

 

[vailr]

Why re-invent the wheel? Just crank up the old cheese cutter Mac Pro chassis factory. Enlist Gigabyte or other 3rd party Taiwan motherboard company to make a motherboard per Apple's specification. Put in a single or pair of Kabylake Xeon CPU's, DDR4, buyer's choice of top-of-the-line & standard PCIe (either: consumer class or workstation class) replaceable nVidia or AMD GPU, 2x Thunderbolt 3 ports. Use NVMe SSD's for storage, with options for a 4,6,8 Tb. etc. spinning hard drive.
Shouldn't take until 2018 to ship one out the U.S. based Mac Pro factory door.
I'd also bet that Dell or HP would be glad to custom produce a similar-specced interim MacPro, until such time as Apple's new modular design is ready for sale. Should be ready in about a month or two. The peculiar Mac-specific motherboard firmware being the only minor obstacle in the way.

 

[SteveW928]

I read the entire transcript of the event and while they refused to be drawn out on when exactly they knew the Mac Pro was no longer a viable platform, it was pretty clear from their comments it took more than six months (though it was also clear they didn't decide the day before the meeting, either).

A portion of the community may have thought it was junk the day they announced it at WWDC, but Apple and Mac leadership clearly believed they had developed something special and therefore they were not going to have a "come to Jesus" moment weeks later.

I'm kind of siding with (I think) Marco Arment here at about 16:30 in.
http://atp.fm/episodes/216

So, that would be about 6-months. Basically, after the MBP disaster, they decided they needed to do something. Of course they are always working on experiments and such all the time. And, if they really are making a complete shift from the direction of the nMP, yes, that would take some time to correct in relation to projects advancing in the labs.

Yes, many of the true pros were complaining within days of the release. Unless they buried their heads in the sand, they knew but didn't care or disagreed. Giving the benefit of the doubt, they disagreed because they though their new direction was going become the future (i.e.: apps spreading across multiple GPUs, etc.). I think they were correct in the modular sense (i.e.: connection via TB), just way too far (obviously / technically) ahead of it's time.

But, I guess my question, is if they really are admitting to a mistake, are sorry about it, and want to address it in the best way possible.... why not some more immediate solution? There could, fairly easily, be a stop-gap model until the new product is done. Given they admitted screwing up, we wouldn't see the stop-gap as the perfect solution either and accuse them of lack of innovation. (Although, maybe the real pro community might like the stop-gap too much?)

 

[smirking]

Does it really take a company with Apple's resources 5 years?

I don't know about 5 years, but if you just want to discuss why things that seem obvious can take so long I have an opinion. We're in a very disruptive period of technology and things are changing underfoot very quickly. You can get a concept to the point when it's close to going to market only to realize that trends have already started changing and the launch has to be pushed back.

The Mac of today is far more complex than the Macs of five years ago because they're not just Macs alone. They're an integrated part of a hardware-software ecosystem that spans from tiny HomeKit/HealthKit devices to MacOS devices.

Even a company with Apple's resources has an extremely fininte number of elite engineers that are probably responsible for the backbone of everything that is Apple. Remember that Steve Jobs had a rule about only working with 200 people because once you went beyond that, you couldn't keep in touch with the whole operation and the Apple ecosystem is far more complex today than it was in the days when the story about Steve's 200 person team limit was told.

Quite frankly, Apple's size is probably more of an obstacle than an asset for the kind of nimble developments that we're demanding of them. Small and lean companies with nothing to lose are much more likely to steal the spotlight of groundbreaking and exciting change than a deliberative behemoth like Apple.

For the record, I'm not happy that the "Pro" focus of Apple being so minimal. I'm a Pro and I spent way too much on my 2016 MBP. I'm satisfied with the machine, but nonetheless a bit disgruntled.

 

[SteveW928]

I don't know about 5 years, but if you just want to discuss why things that seem obvious can take so long I have an opinion. We're in a very disruptive period of technology and things are changing underfoot very quickly. You can get a concept to the point when it's close to going to market only to realize that trends have already started changing and the launch has to be pushed back.

I suppose, but then they need to rethink things a bit. The pro users are getting by with Hackintoshes built from off-the-shelf parts. Apple needs to serve that community, not come up with some revolutionary new concept in desktop computing. It's fine if they do... but that shouldn't hold back having a solid, core product.

It's not like they are up against some huge challenge that they or anyone else hasn't been able to crack. If anything, the problem is almost opposite, in that the technology shift has slowed down dramatically. And, even then, Apple can't seem to keep up.

We're not talking a new model for new model's sake here. We're talking about a machine with current tech and ports, that every other manufacturer has already.

The Mac of today is far more complex than the Macs of five years ago because they're not just Macs alone. They're an integrated part of a hardware-software ecosystem that spans from tiny HomeKit/HealthKit devices to MacOS devices.

I suppose I disagree. Are you talking about the MBP Touch Bar and stuff like that? Aside from that, I haven't seen anything particularly special about any of the Mac line. I think most of that is on the software side of things. And, to the extent that stuff has been a bit rough, I give Apple margin. But, on the software side of things, the problems aren't mostly around the new stuff, but around breaking the old stuff and not adhering to UI stuff they learned long ago.

Even a company with Apple's resources has an extremely fininte number of elite engineers that are probably responsible for the backbone of everything that is Apple. ... Quite frankly, Apple's size is probably more of an obstacle than an asset ...

Oh for sure, that's part of the problem. But, I think at the core, they've lost their way in terms of vision and #1 priority. Tim is an excellent typical COO type. While I wasn't expecting him to be exactly Jobs 2.0, I think he's more focused on the numbers, keeping investors happy, and paying attention to tech industry 'wisdom', than carrying on Jobs' legacy and ideals. Maybe it's unavoidable on that scale? I don't think so, but it's sad none the less.

 

[Obocop]

Wishlist for the Apple Pro monitor:

• 10bit
• HDR support for both HDR 10 and Dolby Vision
• Wide gamut support - DCI-P3, full Adobe RGB, REC 709, SRGB
• 4k or 5k
• USB-C and HDMI connection, but with traditional USB-A ports on the back for connecting 'legacy' stuff such as keyboards, mice, cameras, wacom etc.
• Height adjustable
• Hole in stand for cable management
• 27" to 32". Maybe it comes in 2 sizes.
• iSight camera would be a nice to have.
• SD card slot nice to have - not cumbersome at all

 

[bigtomato]

I'm very proud of Apple for stepping out of their normal cloak of secrecy and for pre-announcing the new 2018 MacPro to the MacPro Community. This is a very very welcome announcement for the likes of me as a hardcore, devoted Apple customer and I for one am really looking forward to the innovations and sheer horsepower the new MacPro 2018 is going to bring. BRING IT ON!!!

It is but inexcusable, they had four years...what have they been doing? Clearly they are gouging consumers even til this day on a four year old desktop, anyone buying it should think twice its absurd to pay that kind of money for such an underpowered and outdated machine. Keep gouging customers apple !!

 

[smirking]

If anything, the problem is almost opposite, in that the technology shift has slowed down dramatically.

Are you sure you mean this? Just in the past year, I count three very disruptive developments off the top of my head: USB-c, TB3, and 5K monitors. It has been years since anyone has had to look up specs to see if a monitor is compatible with any old generic computer, check port types for input devices, or lookup bandwidth limits when linking up peripherals.

Those aren't new in the past year, but have just reached the point of public consciousness (perhaps because of Apple). USB-c is a big deal and that they went all in with it, shows me that Apple is still trying to lead even if it does cause inconveniences to me. I hate to defend Phil Schiller, but this actually was courageous.

I suppose I disagree. Are you talking about the MBP Touch Bar and stuff like that?

Isn't the Touch Bar part of MacOS? That makes it by extension part of the massive engineering ecosystem that spans from tiny HomeKit devices all the way up to Mac Pros. Then to compound the complexity throw in the growing concerns we have with cyberthreats lurking in the ether everywhere.

If Apple were just a hardware company, they could release some of the latest spec hardware and be done with it, growing pains and glitches be damned. They're not a hardware company though. They're also not a software company. They're both. Actually that's not true either. They're a hardware, software, AND services company and every piece affects the others.

Oh for sure, that's part of the problem. But, I think at the core, they've lost their way in terms of vision and #1 priority. Tim is an excellent typical COO type. While I wasn't expecting him to be exactly Jobs 2.0, I think he's more focused on the numbers, keeping investors happy, and paying attention to tech industry 'wisdom', than carrying on Jobs' legacy and ideals. Maybe it's unavoidable on that scale? I don't think so, but it's sad none the less.

I don't know why people keep bringing up Steve Jobs when they're unhappy about things like the Mac Pro. If Steve were in charge, the Mac Pro might be at the bottom of the sea by now. The first thing that Steve Jobs did when he returned to Apple was he killed off all sorts of projects that were beloved but not critical. He understood how fininite a company's core talent was no matter how big it was and he wanted them focusing on the main thrust.

I think Apple does indeed still have vision and that's actually one reason why I'm not sure they're best suited for my needs anymore. Needing to innovate means they need to always take chances and force us to do things like adopt USB-C ahead of the curve and let's face it, mobile devices are the future. I'll be surprised if I have a traditional laptop much less a desktop of any make in 10 years.

It sounds like you don't need anything exciting. Me neither. I just want a solid work computer and Apple's never going to waste limited resources to produce a basic boring PC. For a while their focus and my needs lined up. I wanted to spend less time wrestling with hardware setups and they wanted to deliver the magic of having things just work. Win-win.

Now a lot of things just work and I don't really need Apple for that anymore. I might be able to get what I need for less in a PC supplier whose production cycles are not constrained by anything but hardware availability.

 

[LeonardXW]

I think MAC's less powerful hardware is not the reason on why MAC is not suitable for gaming. I think should be the other way round, most developer do not design good game for MAC.

 

[SamuraiArtGuy]

But a 'spec bump' is all about 'profit'.

That's a very very very long time in technology, and a surprising look at how long Apple 'thinks' about some things. If I were a 'pro user', I'd feel somewhat insulted...

I AM a Pro User - Graphic & Web Designer – and I DO feel somewhat insulted.

When my aging Mid-2010 MP gives up the ghost, can't be upgraded anymore, or is rendered obsolete by an inevitable software or OS Update - I'll have a difficult platform assessment to make.

 

[341328]

I understand your love of the macPro but stating thas Apple has lost its way, and is doomed, because they did not update a mac that sells about 10000 ' s a year, is not really worrying, even understandable.
Perhaps not to MacPro users, but you are a tiny drop of water compared to the mainstream market. No offense...
My main concern is that there has been no update on the macmini for all these years, no new entry level mac for the bigger market.

I didn't say they were doomed. Or lost its way.
[doublepost=1491450628][/doublepost]

Not really. It worked perfectly fine for about 25 years.

Haha. The crap you went through in 1996 was pretty bad (terrible hardware and OS). So maybe you've been OK since 2000. For Mac Pro uses, having new hardware for purchase that's 1400 days old is a complete joke.
[doublepost=1491450815][/doublepost]

Why re-invent the wheel? Just crank up the old cheese cutter Mac Pro chassis factory. Enlist Gigabyte or other 3rd party Taiwan motherboard company to make a motherboard per Apple's specification. Put in a single or pair of Kabylake Xeon CPU's, DDR4, buyer's choice of top-of-the-line & standard PCIe (either: consumer class or workstation class) replaceable nVidia or AMD GPU, 2x Thunderbolt 3 ports. Use NVMe SSD's for storage, with options for a 4,6,8 Gb. etc. spinning hard drive.
Shouldn't take until 2018 to ship one out the U.S. based Mac Pro factory door.
I'd also bet that Dell or HP would be glad to custom produce a similar-specced interim MacPro, until such time as Apple's new modular design is ready for sale. Should be ready in about a month or two. The peculiar Mac-specific motherboard firmware being the only minor obstacle in the way.

Haha. Totally agree.

 

[Neodym]

I think you can kiss most of those [...] goodbye forever [...] that moved to well-spec’ed Hackintoshes [...] because the performance/cost ratio of the switch must have been illuminating.

Only that people claiming that often ignore how much time involvement is required for a Hackintosh. Be it for component research or continuous system maintenance after system updates.

I'm aware that for some people a Hackintosh is a hobby for the sake of tinkering. And that's perfectly fine!

But there are others whose time is at a premium and for those a "Hackintosh" may not be as illuminating as you think. Even in the times of certain dedicated webpages with tutorials and all (which again require time to take).

And from what I read, maintaining a Hackintosh has become a bit more difficult over the last 1-2 years or so.

Silverstone has already made the perfect chassis for the Mac Pro. The Silverstone FT03.

While the FT-03 is a nice-looking housing with an intriguing design approach, it's simply not on par with any MacPro housing quality-wise. It's just unrefined in comparison.

I'm betting the modular comment is quite telling. Also, Craig made some response in regards to eGPUs that was a bit hedgy... kind of like, IMO... that's coming, just not how you think. Maybe think along the lines of an Apple eGPU 'module' that you can add to chain extra GPUs on. That's my read on it all.

Same view here.

Yes, modular doesn't necessarily mean user upgradable. As I said above, I think Craig hinted at that when asked about eGPUs. Apple will probably go eGPU, just not necessarily give easy support to 3rd party eGPUs.

If Apple learned their lesson, they won't actively hinder 3rd party eGPU's. Just the opposite: They can profit from using existing protocols - and supporting the specialist companies that are actually doing GPU's for a living (namely ATI/AMD and nVidia).

They could sell the convenience of getting a plug-and-play eGPU, but I see no reason they couldn't also offer an "empty" eGPU box where the user can plug a GPU into a standard PCIe slot.

That said, I'm not sure most pros necessarily want user upgradable. That's more the hobbyist. Most of the true pros don't much care if they can swap in the latest GPU if they could just buy one in another form and plug it in. They just want the end result.

I beg to disagree. I think that if a Pro user finds that his workflow is impaired by one component (be it CPU or GPU or maybe fast mass storage), he would prefer removing that very bottleneck over replacing the whole machine.

Perhaps it's a one-off project that would not justify spending the money for a whole machine, but for an additional component. And perhaps you could even rent that required extra box for the time of the project.

That Mac product lineup should never, EVER, be all red again. Ever.

To be fair: That red color is an invention of MacRumors for the convenience of us users, to visualize deviations in product cycles. It is based on past product cycles and does not take into consideration external influences, such as e.g. the (temporary) slowing of technological progress, respectively the actual need for an update.

The Sandy Bridge microarchitecture is from 2011 - and a Sandy Bridge i7 is still very usable for mainstream use, even including games (which have been one of the biggest progress drivers for a long time). And sometimes, when existing or "older" hardware is fully sufficient for a target group, it makes no sense to update for the sake of it. Bleeding edge might give some people a good feeling, but more often than not they have to pay for it with less matured drivers and all kinds of little problems.

That said, I also feel the red color shows Apple's neglect of the computer business. Only that - in my eyes - their problem is that they don't like price reductions, to keep up product value for first- and second-hand buyers and prevent customers waiting for incoming price reductions. That strategy works fine when you can offer significant improvements YoY, but it bites you when technology somewhat stagnates.

Will be interesting to follow whether the MacPro price reductions will be a one-off event to soothe customers or whether Apple might generally change its pricing strategy for older hardware (if tech innovation cycles keep getting longer).