Apple to Participate in Meeting Advocating for Better Patient Access to Health Info

dogslobber

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Oct 19, 2014
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Apple Campus, Cupertino CA
Oh, the lawsuits that would happen for unauthorized release of records would be stellar. Big bucks.
Lawsuits are irrelevant when you're fined $1m per person per leak. Tech and ad companies have zero need to comply with any privacy laws whatsoever as any fine today is not even worth 5 cents per person per leak. The only way that any company would take it seriously is if a single massive leak would crater the company permanently. What this means is you have zero chance to leak data. As an added bonus I'd make such a leak also mandatory for the C-level suits and board of directors in such cases to get 20 years minimum.
 

szw-mapple fan

macrumors 68000
Jul 28, 2012
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I'm assuming if you put all your medical records on your iPhone that you can opt out syncing it to the iCloud since Apple revealed that they will not encrypt your data on the cloud but will provide it to requesting law enforcement.
Next step will be for employers or insurance companies is to force Apple to release medical data stored on a person's icloud account in order to decline employment or insurance due to medical data on their iPhone devices.
Some employers required social media access of their accounts before employment.
That‘s not how it works. It’s still encrypted on iCloud, but Apple has the keys to decrypt it when it is required by a court order Apple has the keys to decrypt it if you don't have 2fa turned on in the case of a court order. In either case, Apple nor any commercial third party knows what is backed up. if insurance companies really wanted the data this is one of the much harder ways of getting it.

As for employers requiring social media account, that is the employee willingly providing this information in return for being employed and it’s illegal in many states. Even if they are able to require your medical records, what‘s the difference between giving the employer a digital copy or paper/CD? It’s not like this is data they couldn‘t request before in places where it’s legal.
- - Post merged: - -

I don't know whether my records are or are not protected at the hospital right now. What I do know is that letting tech and ad companies near medical records will totally make them NOT protected. If you trust tech and ad companies then that's your problem to deal with. I know that tech and ad companies are not competent enough to ever be able to offer any type of protections. As I said previously, let them indemnify themselves to $1m per record per leak then we can talk about it until then. Until then keep these parasites away, and no opt-out is not the way to do it. Let people who don't value their privacy opt-in to any non-indemnified scheme.
Do you have any data to back up anything that you’re asserting here? iCloud has never been breached or hacked other than when the password was accidentally leaked by the user or through a phishing/social engineering attacks. Equivocating all data leaks to all tech companies Is like saying you won’t buy manufactured food because a couple of food companies caused food poisoning.

Edit: Health data is end to end encrypted if 2fa is turned on from iOS 12 onward.
 
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Justanotherfanboy

macrumors 6502a
Jul 3, 2018
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Lawsuits are irrelevant when you're fined $1m per person per leak. Tech and ad companies have zero need to comply with any privacy laws whatsoever as any fine today is not even worth 5 cents per person per leak. The only way that any company would take it seriously is if a single massive leak would crater the company permanently. What this means is you have zero chance to leak data. As an added bonus I'd make such a leak also mandatory for the C-level suits and board of directors in such cases to get 20 years minimum.
This is a very aggressive, bizarre, and seemingly anger-fueled, over the top opinion to carry.
Of the 20+ high-profile data leaks in the news over the last few years- I can’t remember ANY of them having the company’s board members aware of & complicit in the leak.
Sooooo.... why exactly would you call for 20 year sentences for uninvolved parties???
You’re aware that’s exactly double the sentence for home invasion & almost equal to a murder sentence, yeah?
Jesus, man! You find hackers getting their hands on user data so vile that your “solution” is to give a dozen people that couldn’t hack their way out of a paper bag murder sentences to combat it?
I gotta admit- that has me head scratching.
Not as much as your “zero chance to lose data...” comment though.
Kinda the equivalent of saying: “If anyone gets caught drunk driving... all their Facebook friends should go to prison for 10 years! Then there will be zero chance of anyone ever driving drunk again”.
Yeah... you definitely strung some words together there- sadly, none of them make sense whatsoever.
 
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dogslobber

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Oct 19, 2014
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Apple Campus, Cupertino CA
This is a very aggressive, bizarre, and seemingly anger-fueled, over the top opinion to carry.
Of the 20+ high-profile data leaks in the news over the last few years- I can’t remember ANY of them having the company’s board members aware of & complacent in the leak.
Sooooo.... why exactly would you call for 20 year sentences for uninvolved parties???
You’re aware that’s exactly double the sentence for home invasion & almost equal to a murder sentence, yeah?
Jesus, man! You find hackers getting their hands on user data so vile that your “solution” is to give a dozen people that couldn’t hack their way out of a paper bag murder sentences to combat it?
I gotta admit- that has me head scratching.
Not as much as your “zero chance to lose data...” comment though.
Kinda the equivalent of saying: “If anyone gets caught drunk driving... all their Facebook friends should go to prison for 10 years! Then there will be zero chance of anyone ever driving drunk again”.
Yeah... you definitely strung some words together there- sadly, none of them make sense whatsoever.
It's a pity people don't take date leaks seriously. There's nothing over the top whatsoever is what I wrote. In fact, if that very enforcement of privacy were in place today there would not be any data breaches. I totally hold the leaders of companies with data breaches totally responsible at they should absolutely face the criminal responsibility for it. I also encourage you to stop being emotional about length of sentencing as we all know the higher the dollar amount the longer the sentencing. Being emotional doesn't help your argument at all. So put that aside and then re-read what I wrote originally.
- - Post merged: - -

Do you have any data to back up anything that you’re asserting here? iCloud has never been breached or hacked other than when the password was accidentally leaked by the user or through a phishing/social engineering attacks. Equivocating all data leaks to all tech companies Is like saying you won’t buy manufactured food because a couple of food company caused food poisoning.
Every cloud service is hackable. Are you suggesting otherwise? That's basically what you're saying here but to that I say any company advocating it should bear the financial burden when it is proven otherwise. An engineer who builds a bridge is criminally responsible for said bridge collapsing. If we're to get to a point where our society is forced to be party to cloud services then those services should be covered by similar provisions. I've laid out a reasonable level for those provisions in my previous comment.
 

Glockworkorange

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Feb 10, 2015
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Lawsuits are irrelevant when you're fined $1m per person per leak. Tech and ad companies have zero need to comply with any privacy laws whatsoever as any fine today is not even worth 5 cents per person per leak. The only way that any company would take it seriously is if a single massive leak would crater the company permanently. What this means is you have zero chance to leak data. As an added bonus I'd make such a leak also mandatory for the C-level suits and board of directors in such cases to get 20 years minimum.
Lol. Will never happen. You can just opt out while the rest of us risk it.
- - Post merged: - -

This is a very aggressive, bizarre, and seemingly anger-fueled, over the top opinion to carry.
Of the 20+ high-profile data leaks in the news over the last few years- I can’t remember ANY of them having the company’s board members aware of & complacent in the leak.
Sooooo.... why exactly would you call for 20 year sentences for uninvolved parties???
You’re aware that’s exactly double the sentence for home invasion & almost equal to a murder sentence, yeah?
Jesus, man! You find hackers getting their hands on user data so vile that your “solution” is to give a dozen people that couldn’t hack their way out of a paper bag murder sentences to combat it?
I gotta admit- that has me head scratching.
Not as much as your “zero chance to lose data...” comment though.
Kinda the equivalent of saying: “If anyone gets caught drunk driving... all their Facebook friends should go to prison for 10 years! Then there will be zero chance of anyone ever driving drunk again”.
Yeah... you definitely strung some words together there- sadly, none of them make sense whatsoever.
Agree 100%—super hostile take.
 

Relentless Power

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Jul 12, 2016
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I'm assuming if you put all your medical records on your iPhone that you can opt out syncing it to the iCloud since Apple revealed that they will not encrypt your data on the cloud but will provide it to requesting law enforcement.
Next step will be for employers or insurance companies is to force Apple to release medical data stored on a person's icloud account in order to decline employment or insurance due to medical data on their Some employers required social media access of their accounts before employment.
Bolded:

Yes, that’s true. Which is why I don’t have any social media whatsoever, [aside from being a member on Macrumors.] I work in L.E., and not also do they have access to your current social media, they’ll ‘back research’ you to find out anything you’ve posted that they can have access to on social media.

I value my privacy, and One way I control my privacy, is by not having any social media whatsoever, nor have I ever had social media accounts in the past.
 
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mdriftmeyer

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Feb 2, 2004
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It absolutely amazes me that the sources for "improving" medical care are always politicians, healthcare conglomerates and large software/tech firms. It's never doctors and nurses. btw- EPIC is "Skynet"
Doctors are always involved. Many of them have lived high on the hog from kickbacks while being intricately involved in every stage process.

It amazes me people think Medical Doctors are so above reproach. With rare exceptions M.D.s are BS. Biology majors who barely passed basic physics, business calculus, and inorganic chemistry, never mind organic chemistry.

I'm around doctors weekly and for the most part, they're not researchers, overworked, overpaid, underperforming staffers, who dream of opening up their own minor emergency clinics to bilk the public.

A large portion was against the Affordable Care Act because of the intent [originally] to cap fees on consumers. They still complain about Medicare paperwork that they don't even do--it's done by the office staffing. They deliberately shoot for the moon on charges knowing Medicare will reject them.

For instance, they bill out six hours of rounds at over $100/hour when they do 30 minutes maximum per month on my mother's dialysis consults. They bill Medicare for $666 and get paid around $235.

Her nephrologist enjoys chatting with an engineer because most of the staff are medical technicians only.

If Apple can improve the Health System I'm all for it. The ACA was supposed to unify records. So far, I've yet to see it. I've repeatedly filled out records for her, even though she's only through Medicare. After a dozen times it gets old.

FYI: Every 4 hour dialysis session DaVita and it's only other nation-wide competitor [at the exact same fees] bill Medicare $4800. Medicare rejects it but accepts $2495. It's highway robbery and these corporations don't even have back up systems when the recycling system fails.

Centralize Health Care is the only way it'll ever become better for less waste of money. Privatization was a power/money grab on the ignorant and it's worked for decades.
 

Glockworkorange

macrumors 68020
Feb 10, 2015
2,465
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Chicago, Illinois
Bolded:

Yes, that’s true. Which is why I don’t have any social media whatsoever, [aside from being a member on Macrumors.] I work in L.E., and not also do they have access to your current social media, they’ll ‘back research’ you to find out anything you’ve posted that they can have access to on social media.

I value my privacy, and One way I control my privacy, is by not having any social media whatsoever, nor have I ever had social media accounts in the past.
The world would be a better, kinder place if more people lived as you do without social media. It's poison and brings out the worst in people.
 

iGeneo

macrumors 6502a
Jul 3, 2010
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820
That‘s not how it works. It’s still encrypted on iCloud, but Apple has the keys to decrypt it when it is required by a court order. Neither Apple nor any commercial third party knows what is backed up. if insurance companies really wanted the data this is one of the much harder ways of getting it.
That is incorrect...health data is encrypted on device, Apple does not have the key
 

jonblatho

macrumors 65816
Jan 20, 2014
1,487
3,874
Missouri
That‘s not how it works. It’s still encrypted on iCloud, but Apple has the keys to decrypt it when it is required by a court order. Neither Apple nor any commercial third party knows what is backed up. if insurance companies really wanted the data this is one of the much harder ways of getting it.
This is not necessarily true. For users with iOS 12 and two-factor authentication enabled, all Health data is end-to-end encrypted and cannot be accessed by Apple even with valid legal process. If two-factor authentication is not enabled, then it’s encrypted at rest, just like all other iCloud data (except emails), but Apple has the keys to decrypt it.

I'm assuming if you put all your medical records on your iPhone that you can opt out syncing it to the iCloud since Apple revealed that they will not encrypt your data on the cloud but will provide it to requesting law enforcement.
For many users (see above), this isn’t the case for Health data. You can opt out, though.

Health data is encrypted on the device, Apple has zero access to it, and any encryption key that they have would not access it
Not necessarily true (see above).
 

Tech198

macrumors G5
Mar 21, 2011
14,325
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Australia, Perth
Done safely, this would be a complete positive for patients and many providers. Transferring health data between providers is challenging — with some good reason, given the sensitive information involved — but can absolutely be improved.
I would argue this one,,, technology cannot be safe for critical matters, let alone on the internet.

That is incorrect...health data is encrypted on device, Apple does not have the key

Apple doesn't need the key, when records get on-line anyway, due to incompetent practitioners.
 

Xtir

macrumors member
Dec 28, 2013
72
42
Geez, people, take off your tinfoil hats.

As someone who has been bouncing between 15 different doctors over the past couple of months, having countless tests done for various issues, I will WELCOME an integrated, platform-agnostic database/piece of technology that shows every doctor, nurse, and yes, insurance person who needs said info, all the pertinent information related to my medical history. I am sick (no pun intended) of having to set up accounts and download apps for every hospital, imaging service, doctor's office, and clinic. They're all trying to make it easier by creating their own app, but keeping track of everything that's been done is a logistical nightmare, not to mention inefficient when it comes to relaying data between medical entities. In short, there's no centralized database they can all share. It's like passing an amendment to the Constitution for these institutions and people to have quick access to all my medical history... If tech companies can come up with a way to make all of the above easier, I'm on board 100%. And yes, it will be secure. The paranoia over stolen personal data will likely ensure privacy and security remain a top priority.

Okay fine, keep your tinfoil hats on.
as to your experiences; n=1, not how we work.

And this is not about storage, its about access to your health info, and for this I do not trust Apple..
 
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Xtir

macrumors member
Dec 28, 2013
72
42
Doctors are always involved. Many of them have lived high on the hog from kickbacks while being intricately involved in every stage process.

It amazes me people think Medical Doctors are so above reproach. With rare exceptions M.D.s are BS. Biology majors who barely passed basic physics, business calculus, and inorganic chemistry, never mind organic chemistry.

I'm around doctors weekly and for the most part, they're not researchers, overworked, overpaid, underperforming staffers, who dream of opening up their own minor emergency clinics to bilk the public.

A large portion was against the Affordable Care Act because of the intent [originally] to cap fees on consumers. They still complain about Medicare paperwork that they don't even do--it's done by the office staffing. They deliberately shoot for the moon on charges knowing Medicare will reject them.

For instance, they bill out six hours of rounds at over $100/hour when they do 30 minutes maximum per month on my mother's dialysis consults. They bill Medicare for $666 and get paid around $235.

Her nephrologist enjoys chatting with an engineer because most of the staff are medical technicians only.

If Apple can improve the Health System I'm all for it. The ACA was supposed to unify records. So far, I've yet to see it. I've repeatedly filled out records for her, even though she's only through Medicare. After a dozen times it gets old.

FYI: Every 4 hour dialysis session DaVita and it's only other nation-wide competitor [at the exact same fees] bill Medicare $4800. Medicare rejects it but accepts $2495. It's highway robbery and these corporations don't even have back up systems when the recycling system fails.

Centralize Health Care is the only way it'll ever become better for less waste of money. Privatization was a power/money grab on the ignorant and it's worked for decades.
This is (your) democracy@work for you, let Apple in to your life and wait when they start an insurance company, or worse a Hospital. As I recall their products aren't cheap, what let you to think they will make healthcare cheaper instead of making themself richer... rain and drip, pot and kettle is coming your way.
 

V_Man

macrumors 6502
Nov 23, 2019
340
419
I don't know whether my records are or are not protected at the hospital right now. What I do know is that letting tech and ad companies near medical records will totally make them NOT protected. If you trust tech and ad companies then that's your problem to deal with. I know that tech and ad companies are not competent enough to ever be able to offer any type of protections. As I said previously, let them indemnify themselves to $1m per record per leak then we can talk about it until then. Until then keep these parasites away, and no opt-out is not the way to do it. Let people who don't value their privacy opt-in to any non-indemnified scheme.
I don’t agree with your opinions often, but I am in complete agreement here.

Hippa has made this sort of thing difficult. Someone in the loop has no reason to ever have access to your medical info.
- - Post merged: - -

Lawsuits are irrelevant when you're fined $1m per person per leak. Tech and ad companies have zero need to comply with any privacy laws whatsoever as any fine today is not even worth 5 cents per person per leak. The only way that any company would take it seriously is if a single massive leak would crater the company permanently. What this means is you have zero chance to leak data. As an added bonus I'd make such a leak also mandatory for the C-level suits and board of directors in such cases to get 20 years minimum.
This is a bit much.🙄 I finally agree with you on something. Then this. Come on man.
A data breach is always a possibility. Even Apple could have one.
 
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Xtir

macrumors member
Dec 28, 2013
72
42
I'm assuming if you put all your medical records on your iPhone that you can opt out syncing it to the iCloud since Apple revealed that they will not encrypt your data on the cloud but will provide it to requesting law enforcement.
Next step will be for employers or insurance companies is to force Apple to release medical data stored on a person's icloud account in order to decline employment or insurance due to medical data on their iPhone devices.
Some employers required social media access of their accounts before employment.
Try and opt out for iCloud for your apple hardware. Apple is not about opt-out, but locked-in..
 
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szw-mapple fan

macrumors 68000
Jul 28, 2012
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That is incorrect...health data is encrypted on device, Apple does not have the key
Nope. Health data is encrypted on device but can be backed up to iCloud starting from iOS 11. It is only encrypted during storage and transmission. From iOS 12 onward, Apple does not have the key (i.e. end to end encrypted) only if you have two factor authentication turned on.
 

szw-mapple fan

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Jul 28, 2012
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Epic Systems Advises Hospital Execs Against Interoperability Rule
Judy Faulkner believes the proposed rule will result in app makers gaining access to patient data without consent.

Since Epic Systems has a direct financial stake in this as a healthcare software company, I would argue against trusting this advice.
 

Vjosullivan

macrumors 6502a
Oct 21, 2013
849
971
...if you don't know your blood type. You'll almost surely be tested before getting a transfusion anyway...
In other words, nobody is going to be poking around on your iPhone when you urgently need medical treatment.
 

Dave00

macrumors 6502a
Dec 2, 2003
854
61
Pittsburgh
Since Epic Systems has a direct financial stake in this as a healthcare software company, I would argue against trusting this advice.
Yes, EPIC has a direct interest in NOT making records interoperable. In fact, they purposely eschew standards and data portals in an effort to try to make others use their systems so they can have better interoperability. What we really need is a standardized, centralized data system for structured data points. Other countries do this, and they're able to answer questions such as what percentage of the populace has been vaccinated against pneumonia. In the US, we can't even answer the question of whether and when a particular patient has been vaccinated against pneumonia, because they might've gotten it at any of a number of providers, retail clinics, or pharmacies. And a big part of waste is redundancies of tests, because what was ordered and what the results were resides in multiple silos that don't talk to one another.

I would argue that privacy is WORSE with a balkanized system like we have now. You really don't hear of data breaches in countries with more centralized data systems. But with our system, you have hundreds of EMR systems, each with its own level of security.
 
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