Apple TV 4K won’t show above 30hz

Discussion in 'Apple TV and Home Theater' started by rblahetka, Sep 24, 2017.

  1. rblahetka macrumors newbie

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2013
    #1
    i have a Marantz receiver sr5008 and a Sony xbr55-850b and the new Apple 4K tv. The Apple is plugged into the receiver via HDMI with new cable to support the 4K. From there it goes to the tv. The only 4K setting that works is 4K sdr at 30hz. If I bybass the receiver and go straight to the tv I get 4K sdr at 60hz. What am I missing? I’d hate to go straight to the tv and then use the ARC back to the receiver as I think I’m going to lose Audi quality. Any help would be great.
     
  2. Packers1958 macrumors 65816

    Joined:
    Apr 16, 2017
    Location:
    South Dakota
    #2
    Is there a setting in your receiver that can switch to 60hz? is all the FW on the receiver up to date?
     
  3. brucewayne macrumors regular

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2005
    #3


    The SR5008 is HDMI v1.4 which supports max 4096×2160 at 24 Hz, 3840×2160 (Ultra HD) at 24 Hz/25 Hz/30 Hz, and support for 1080p at 120 Hz.

    Unfortunately to get 4k/60 your only option is to go to the TV first and ARC/optical back to the receiver, or upgrade your receiver to one that supports HDMI 2.0 or 2.1



    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HDMI#Version_1.4

    https://www.crutchfield.com/S-60J2p...z-SR5008.html?tab=review#customer-reviews-tab
     
  4. rblahetka thread starter macrumors newbie

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2013
    #4

    Ok. If I go the arc route, will I be losing anything audio wise? And thanks for the reply.
     
  5. DarkSorrow82 macrumors regular

    DarkSorrow82

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2016
    Location:
    Burlington, WI
    #5
    Going fiber optic shouldn't lose sound quality. i use fiber optic to my receiver myself. I actually think it sounds much better.
     
  6. brucewayne macrumors regular

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2005
    #6
    The ATV 4k decodes whatever format you are watching and sends it out as a uncompressed Linear PCM 5.1 / 7.1 output (so it can add sound effects/siri/etc - also note this is one reason why ATV doesn't do Dolby Atmos) - it doesn't send the bitstream directly so ideally your TV/receiver needs to accept multichannel PCM. However, ARC on HDMI 1.4 is limited to the same formats as SPDIF(Optical Digital).

    So given this, I think for you to get the better picture quality (4k/60) you are going to connect the ATV to the TV and either ARC or Optical back to the TV - however since neither audio connection supports multichannel PCM you probably will be stuck with 2 channel stereo sound (unless your tv supports LPCM and will convert multichannel LPCM to Dolby Digital 5.1 which seems unlikely) The other way is to go better sound quality and go to your receiver first (limiting you to 4k/30) but maintaining multichannel since your receiver supports LPCM.

    there are HDMI 2.0/HDCP 2.2 4k HDMI splitters out there now - its possible that you could split the ATV4k output to your TV and receiver - although you might end up with lip-sync issues and/or the HDMI handshake may prevent the ATV to output LPCM 7.1 (some splitter use the highest common denominator from your outputs to send to the input - for example if your Receiver supports 7.1 LPCM and your TV only supports 2.0 LPCM, the splitter may send back 'this display is capable of LPCM 2.0' to the ATV)

    It sucks that you are in this position - the SR5008 predated the HDMI 2.0 and HDCP 2.2. I'm in the same position with one of my setups which is why I'm considering returning my ATV 4k when it comes. I'm better off using the 4k apps built in to the TV and letting output multichannel back to the receiver.

    One bright spot is that Apple has said they are working on Atmos capability. Presumably this would mean that they are going to do a direct bitstream out as I can't imagine why they would want to decode the stream, strip the Atmos object data, add in sound effects, encode the stream adding back in the atmos data. If that is true, at least 5.1 Dolby could be sent to the tv then the tv could send that down via ARC to the receiver.

    I know that is a bunch of data that really doesn't get you where you want to be. My advice would be to upgrade your receiver to one that supports HDMI 2.0/HDCP 2.2. accessories4less has a refurb SR5011 which is a more recent version of your receiver for $539.






    From the hdmi.org site

    https://www.hdmi.org/manufacturer/hdmi_1_4/hdmi_1_4_faq.aspx#15

    Which audio formats are supported over the Audio Return Channel?
    The Audio Return Channel supports all the same audio formats that can be sent through a traditional S/PDIF audio connection, including Dolby Digital, DTS, and PCM audio.

    From the apple TV 4k setup guide:
    https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT204069

    Best Quality Available
    To experience the best possible sound quality, here's what you need:

    • Go to Settings > Video and Audio > Surround Sound and choose Best Quality Available.
    • With an HDMI cable, make a direct connection1 between your Apple TV and a television or audio receiver that supports LPCM (uncompressed or lossless audio formats) or Dolby Digital2 (compressed multichannel audio formats, including 7.1 and 5.1) audio.
    1. Your sound quality depends on the device that's directly connected to your Apple TV. If you connect your Apple TV directly to a television that only supports stereo-quality audio, you'll hear stereo-quality even when you play 7.1 content.

    2. Over HDMI, the Best Quality Available setting outputs Dolby Digital 7.1 or 5.1 as uncompressed LPCM. Some receivers might not show Dolby Digital as the current format, even though there's no loss in audio quality.
     
  7. rblahetka thread starter macrumors newbie

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2013
    #7

    Thanks for the reply. I’m thinking the receiver upgrade may be the best route because as of now I run the blu ray player into receiver and then to the tv. I’m probably not getting the best from that itself. I could run one HDMI to the tv for video and the other to the receiver for audio with the blu ray player but with everything being in the wall that seems like a big pita.
     
  8. brucewayne macrumors regular

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2005
    #8

    You are welcome. As long as it is non-4k blu-ray you probably aren't missing much, HDMI 1.4 covers most of the bases for that.

    Are the built in apps on your TV acceptable? Upgrading a $200 apple tv and $500 reciever might not provide much additional benefit over what you already have (unless you want to rent or buy 4k content from apple)
     
  9. rblahetka, Sep 27, 2017
    Last edited: Sep 27, 2017

    rblahetka thread starter macrumors newbie

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2013
    #9

    This is the Blu-ray player I have:
    http://www.samsung.com/uk/audio-video/blu-ray-player-f7500/

    For blue ray I just use one cable leaving the blu ray player, to the reciver, to the TV. I don't have the 4K upscaling on the blu ray player turned on, I let the TV sort it out.

    These are the specs I pulled out of Sony's manual for the TV:


    Video (2D): 4096 × 2160p (60 Hz)*, 4096 × 2160p (24 Hz), 3840 × 2160p (60 Hz)*,


    3840 × 2160p (24, 25, 30 Hz),1080p (30, 60 Hz), 1080/24p, 1080i (60 Hz),

    720p (30, 60 Hz), 720/24p, 480p, 480i, PC Formats

    * YCbCr 4:2:0 / 8 bit


    Video (3D):

    Frame Packing 1080p (30 Hz), 1080/24p, 1080i (60 Hz), 720p (30, 60 Hz), 720/24p

    Side-by-Side 1080p (60 Hz), 1080/24p, 1080i (60 Hz), 720p (60 Hz)

    Over-Under 1080p (30, 60 Hz), 1080/24p, 1080i (60 Hz), 720p (60 Hz)

    Audio: 5.1 channel linear PCM: 32, 44.1 and 48


    I have one apple TV 3 in another room. The TV has apps built in, but I really hate the UI of it, and having the apple TV tied into everything else is nice. So, I already splurged on the ATV4K unit. I don't have an issue of upgrading my receiver. I can see where it will be more beneficial with the apple TV to do so, but not sure if I can gain anything from the blu ray. If that's the case, a cheaper solution would be to just plug the apple TV into the TV HDMI port and let ARC return the audio, but I don't want to do that if all I am going to get is 2 channel stereo. I don't mind if it's not in Atmos HEOS super dolby 14.1.3.4.21 surround, but 5.1 would be nice. Also, all I need is one more reason to justify a new receiver. Lol.
     
  10. brentsg macrumors 68040

    Joined:
    Oct 15, 2008
    #10
    My issue with buying a new receiver today is that you'll manage to get one of the last models that doesn't have HDMI 2.1 features. You'll start seeing features from the HDMI 2.1 set over the next 2 model years I'd imagine.
     
  11. brucewayne macrumors regular

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2005
    #11
    I think we will always be in that position. Remember all the products a few years ago that were released with HDMI 2.0 but not HDCP 2.2? The people that bought a HDR TV last year and now there are three different formats - or even worse, people that spent mega money on last years LG OLED sets that say dolby vision to find that it maxes at 30fps? Or a receiver 'upgradable' to ATMOS but then DTS:X comes out.

    back in 2005 I bought the Sony KDSR-60XBR1 - the first 'affordable' (well at $5k in 2005 money) full HD 1080p SXRD set. Beautiful picture, nothing else was close at the time... except the HDMI ports did not actually support 1080p in, the spec wasn't ready at the time it was released so i was limited to 720p/1080i source which really sucked when the first gen blu-ray players came out a few months later. That was a BDP-S300 which worked on some of the first blu ray discs - however the studios got creative with the menus and within a year the s300 processed them so slow it was unusable - not to mention lack of support for the higher res audio formats that came out around the same time.

    I bought an iPad 3 also lol - I have early adopter disease.

    So the moral of the story is, there is always something new around the corner, and its likely that what you have now, or what the manufacturers are selling now isn't going to be compatible with it. Buy the components you need right now and let the future work itself out. By the time you really need the extra bandwidth of HDMI 2.1 8k sets will be selling for $1000 at walmart.
     
  12. brentsg macrumors 68040

    Joined:
    Oct 15, 2008
    #12
    Depends on whether the thing around the corner is a killer feature. For me 2.1 has some of that.
     
  13. Nunyabinez, Sep 29, 2017
    Last edited: Sep 29, 2017

    Nunyabinez macrumors 68000

    Nunyabinez

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2010
    Location:
    Provo, UT
    #13
    My Onkyo had a power surge and killed the HDMI ports. I run my Apple TV 4K to the TV (Vizio 4k with Dolby Vision) and then a toslink optical cable to my receiver. It definatly is able to send all of the 7.1 and 5.1 formats to the receiver. I wanted to buy a 4K receiver, but realized that this is giving me crystal clear multi-channel audio and didn't cost me a thing, other than the cable which I had sitting around.
     
  14. bhaveshp macrumors newbie

    Joined:
    Jun 9, 2010
    #14
    I had the same problem with my Sony Xbr 900e. However, the following thread gave the solution - you need to fix the HDMI external input setting. Stupid setting on the Sony for sure.

    1. Hit the "Home" button on the Sony TV remote. You'll see a bunch of icons popup

    2. Arrow down to the bottom to Settings (it looks like a gear icon on the x900e)

    3. Once in settings, go into External Inputs

    4. Scroll down and go into HDMI signal Format (Enhance 4K HDMI signal Format)

    5. Once there you'll see the magic setting we need, which is the Enhanced Format (Displays High-Quality HDMI signals on HDMI inputs 2 & 3...), so select it and navigate back out using the back button

    http://community.sony.com/t5/Television-General/HDR-settings-on-Apple-TV-4K-on-x900e/td-p/647929

    Hope that helps!
     
  15. cynics macrumors G4

    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2012
    #15
    ARC shouldn't limit audio quality from the ATV. Keep in mind you are concerned about the TV limiting audio quality while trying to get around the receiver limiting video quality.
     
  16. priitv8 macrumors 68040

    Joined:
    Jan 13, 2011
    Location:
    Estonia
    #16
    That is correct. My 2016 Bravia can only output DD, DD+ and DTS via ARC, so no lossless formats will be passed.
    DTS is luckily backwards compatible, so even if your movie has some DTS HD flavor, only the DTS Core stream will be passed through. But at least you will hear basic DTS 5.1 sound. Dolby True HD will simply be silent.
     

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15 September 24, 2017