Apple VP defends ‘FireWire tax’


jsw

Moderator emeritus
Mar 16, 2004
22,819
41
Andover, MA
I am terrified that, if I go to buy an iPod Photo to replace my 40GB, they might cut the price another $150 but leave out the headphones. God, that would be terrible. :rolleyes: I like the a la carte pricing.
 

Yvan256

macrumors 603
Jul 5, 2004
5,032
886
Canada
More PCs have USB/USB2.0 than Firewire. More PC users buy iPods than Mac users. Hence it only makes sense to supply the USB cable instead of Firewire.

Or would you rather annoy 90~95% of iPod buyers?

And stop crying, Firewire is still supported, Apple isn't ditching Firewire at all. And the 20$ cable? You'll still end up paying 30$ less and getting a 18-hours battery.

I know I was pissed at having to buy a stupid 40$CAD USB cable that should've been in the box in the first place... After paying 450$CAD for a 10GB iPod (3rd gen, just after the 10GB was replaced by the 15GB).
 

edesignuk

Moderator emeritus
Mar 25, 2002
19,077
1
London, England
Yvan256 said:
More PCs have USB/USB2.0 than Firewire. More PC users buy iPods than Mac users. Hence it only makes sense to supply the USB cable instead of Firewire.
I understand that as far as business goes it makes complete sense, but, it is still putting Windows users above the Mac faithful that paid through the teeth for early models (I paid £470 for a 10GB!!!!), and so supported the product initially and gave Apple the backing to continue to improve the product, and eventually even make the thing available to Windows users.

So yes, it makes sense, still doesn't mean I or anyone else necessarily has to be particularly happy about it.
 

birdherder

macrumors newbie
Sep 12, 2003
23
0
austin, tx
When I bought my 3G iPod I had to spend the $20 to buy the USB cable since at the time I didn't have Firewire on either of my PCs.

Now I'm a Mac person and use the Firewire connection on both of my macs. I bought an old iMac indigo to use as a file server on my home network and it only has USB 1. [and about through the USB hub two printers, a scanner, a bluetooth dongle].

Shipping the new iPods with USB is a good business decision. It is cheaper than having two SKUs or throwing both cables into a single box.

What Apple could do is create a little adapter that accepts USB on one end and has Firewire on the other end. This is similar to that little adapter Microsoft would throw into its keyboard and mouse boxes so that people without USB could use its USB stuff if the user only had a PS/2 connector. (Of course this would not make your Firewire stuff automatically USB stuff, but it would only pass through the relevant connections so Firewire users could use the existing cable... sort of like the Firewire 4 pin vs 8 pin adapter it already ships.) Include that or sell it for $10 bucks.
 

wdlove

macrumors P6
Oct 20, 2002
16,570
0
The reason that Apple gives makes sense, just a business decision. At least Apple acknowledged our complaints.
 

applekid

macrumors 68020
Jul 3, 2003
2,098
0
They're cutting costs way too much. The more I think about it, I don't care we're missing the FireWire cable, but let's remember what else is not included in the box anymore (depending on model): dock, case, FireWire cable, and power adapter.

When I bought my 3G iPod, I got a dock, case, and power adapter. I'm going to have to think twice before purchasing my next iPod or iPod mini or even iPod Photo. I am not going blow another $100 on accessories just because Apple wants a higher profit margin. I doubt tossing in all of these accessories are going to raise costs that much. Remember, if Apple is selling these accessories at $20 or $30, they're still making some sort of profit, so they really are cheaper to make than what we're paying.

I'm going to fire of an e-mail later. This is just unacceptable.
 

montex

macrumors regular
Jan 17, 2002
245
0
Seattle, WA
Yesterday, my roommate bought the new 6Gb iPod Mini with a USB cable. I didn't believe he would get it to work since he has a G4 iMac with USB 1.1.
Surprise! It works just fine. Granted, he's not getting the high speed downloads he would from Firewire or USB 2.0, but it works and that is enough for him.

IMHO, this is a better way to get people to buy iPods, when their computers don't have the Firewire (1394) port.
 

Lacero

macrumors 604
Jan 20, 2005
6,639
2
Both my tower and PB have USB2.0. I can charge my iPod on either USB or Firewire. I don't give an ass which cable Apple decides to ship with their iPods, as long as the ports support both USB and Firewire. If I had my way, I would ship with no cables contingent on Apple providing a $20 price reduction.
 

24C

macrumors 6502a
Nov 9, 2004
519
0
redAPPLE said:
would it not be a better "business" decision to ask the customer prior to purchase, which cable they would prefer?

it gives the buyer "choice".
I proposed this in a similar thread partly in jest, but the lack of a cable is no big shake, when iPods cost less. Another thought, many people buy USB printers in the UK and they don't come with cables, but scanners do...work that out?
 

xtremdav45

macrumors newbie
Dec 22, 2003
19
0
I have come to the belief that this controversy isnt about "OMG I have to spend another $20 on a FireWire cable!" because Im sure MOST of everybody complaining has an iPod and the FireWire cable.

I have had two iPods, and I have 2 firewire cables, 1 usb cable, and 1 USB/Firewire cable.

Apple said that they will continue to support FireWire, they just wont package the cable.

The problem with all you 'mac elitists' is that you feel that Apple has commited treason by adopting a much more popular PC interface, rather than the Apple interface.

Apple wants to save a couple of bucks with the iPod, and this was the easiest way to.
 

macFanDave

macrumors 6502a
Apr 14, 2003
571
0
Lacero said:
Both my tower and PB have USB2.0. I can charge my iPod on either USB or Firewire.
Yes, but you can't boot either computer from your iPod using USB2.0, but you can with FireWire.

One application of an iPod (othre than the mini) is that is can be used as a bootable drive from which you can save a Mac that is having problems, or you want to do some diagnosis or maintenance tasks.

Windows folks with their Dell DJ's will never be able to do that!
 

mklos

macrumors 68000
Dec 4, 2002
1,896
0
My house!
macFanDave said:
Yes, but you can't boot either computer from your iPod using USB2.0, but you can with FireWire.

One application of an iPod (other than the mini) is that is can be used as a bootable drive from which you can save a Mac that is having problems, or you want to do some diagnosis or maintenance tasks.

Windows folks with their Dell DJ's will never be able to do that!
Well who in their right mind buys an iPod so they can boot their Mac off it. Thats just a nice extra feature, but its not a reason why Apple should include a FW cable. Lets remember that the main purpose of an iPod is to STORE and PLAY MUSIC, not everything else that it can do.

What I think they should do is include a FW cable with the Mac version and a USB cable with the PC version. Then you make everyone happy. Some older Macs don't have USB 2 onboard. Even something like my old 1 GHz iMac G4 only had USB 1.1 on it. I can understand why they don't include it with the PC version for the reasons Apple stated, but at the same time, the majority of Macs have FireWire, not USB 2 on them. So why neglect the Mac faithful?
 

mklos

macrumors 68000
Dec 4, 2002
1,896
0
My house!
applekid said:
They're cutting costs way too much. The more I think about it, I don't care we're missing the FireWire cable, but let's remember what else is not included in the box anymore (depending on model): dock, case, FireWire cable, and power adapter.

When I bought my 3G iPod, I got a dock, case, and power adapter. I'm going to have to think twice before purchasing my next iPod or iPod mini or even iPod Photo. I am not going blow another $100 on accessories just because Apple wants a higher profit margin. I doubt tossing in all of these accessories are going to raise costs that much. Remember, if Apple is selling these accessories at $20 or $30, they're still making some sort of profit, so they really are cheaper to make than what we're paying.

I'm going to fire of an e-mail later. This is just unacceptable.
Do you think Apple produces iPods for free? I'd imagine with the color screens at a MUCH lower price, the cuts have to come from somewhere. Most people charge their iPod from the cable itself, so its really not necessary for Apple to include the Power Adapter. I very rarely use mine as its charged from my Mac. Only the mini doesn't include the power adapter. There are so many cool, very cheap cases out there so that isn't a huge issue. The only issue here becomes the dock which isn't a necessity to make the iPod/mini function so whats the big deal.

Most USB printers don't include the USB cable you better complain to them too!
 

nagromme

macrumors G5
May 2, 2002
12,551
1,186
edesignuk said:
it is still putting Windows users above the Mac faithful that paid through the teeth for early models
What exactly does USB 2 give PC users that it doesn't give Mac users?
 

thequicksilver

macrumors 6502a
Sep 19, 2004
769
0
Birmingham
nagromme said:
What exactly does USB 2 give PC users that it doesn't give Mac users?
Full speed compatibility with pretty much every PC sold in the last three years or so. The Mac only adopted USB 2 in mid to late 2003.

If all Macs had had USB 2 as long as Firewire, nobody would give a monkey's. But they didn't. So they do. For any Mac user who hasn't bought a new system in the last 18 months, they have to get a new cable to get full speed syncing with their expensive new toy. Doesn't this seem a little bad to you? It certainly does to me.

Disclaimer: I have a Mac with USB 2 and Firewire, and have no emotional attachment to either means of synchronisation.
 

ClarkeB

macrumors 6502
Jan 24, 2005
319
0
Three words: F@CK PC USERS


Half of them thing they are using I-Pod's and the other half are like "I love my iPod...MACS TEH SUCK!1!!!1!!!"

Luckily I'm never going to be stuck buying these Apple iPods for Windoze because there is now way I will pay any price for this push-button iPod without even a Firewire cable! Are they going to charge for iTunes now? I'm actually surprised they still make iTunes for Macs since they obviously no longer care ("iPod for PC", "Mac mini...it's good for PC users").

If my iPod breaks, I'm either searching for a refurbished 3G (or waiting till an actual 4G comes out) or I'm definitely looking into other options.
 

mtscott

macrumors member
Feb 7, 2005
46
0
I personally feel, and I'm sure most Mac users feel the following:

1-My PowerBook is just 2 years old. When I bought it, I knew all about USB 2.0, but I wasn't concerned about my machine not having it BECAUSE it came with FireWire.

2-The iPod was ORIGINALLY deisgned with FireWire, and has benefits like faster throughput (when compared to USB 2.0) and the ability to boot off of it if you own a Mac. I own a Mac, therefore I want to be able to use that capability.

3-Don't put a cable in the box, EXACTLY like printer manufacturers (which they haven't been doing since printers were still using parallel ports!) Apple should ask the customer while they order an iPod which cable they want. On the shipping/packaging line, the employee notes USB 2.0 or FireWire and throws it in the SHIPPING box. It doesn't even have to be in the actual iPod box.

4-Okay fine, USB 2.0 is more popular, I don't care. BUT, why the hell should PC users NOT have to pay an extra $20 to hook up their iPods, yet I do! As it stands, I get a USB cable I don't need, and being a Mac user, I have to pay MORE to get my iPod to work with my MAC MACHINE!? I own a Mac and have contributed more to Apple's bottom line than any PC user has. Hell, I bought my 12" PowerBook when they first came out, only to see a $600 CDN price drop in them 2 months later.

Seems real fair. Thanks for putting the rest of the computing world ahead of a loyal user.