Become a MacRumors Supporter for $25/year with no ads, private forums, and more!

Apple vs. Anti-DRM

MacRumors

macrumors bot
Original poster
Apr 12, 2001
51,459
13,093
Apple appears to have taken an active technological stance against the recent emergence of iTunes Digital Rights Stripping applications. Two such applications have been able to effectively strip the Digital Rights Management from Protected iTunes Songs to allow them to play on unauthorized machines and MP3 players.

While Apple's legal team has been effective in shutting down the sites that host some of these applications, Apple's most recent iTunes revision (4.5) appears to further thwart these existing applications.

Appleinsider notes error messages when attempting to de-protect the latest files with Fairplay.
 

iPC

macrumors 6502
Jul 22, 2003
384
0
East Windsor, CT
Macrumors said:
Apple appears to have taken an active technological stance against the recent emergence of iTunes Digital Rights Stripping applications. Two such applications have been able to effectively strip the Digital Rights Management from Protected iTunes Songs to allow them to play on unauthorized machines and MP3 players.

While Apple's legal team has been effective in shutting down the sites that host some of these applications, Apple's most recent iTunes revision (4.5) appears to furthur thwart these existing applications.

Appleinsider notes error messages when attempting to de-protect the latest files with Fairplay.
Nothing a quick re-write of a very basic app (one was ~230 lines of code) can't fix.
 
Comment

3-22

macrumors regular
Nov 19, 2002
190
0
Macrumors said:
Apple appears to have taken an active technological stance against the recent emergence of iTunes Digital Rights Stripping applications. Two such applications have been able to effectively strip the Digital Rights Management from Protected iTunes Songs to allow them to play on unauthorized machines and MP3 players.

While Apple's legal team has been effective in shutting down the sites that host some of these applications, Apple's most recent iTunes revision (4.5) appears to furthur thwart these existing applications.

Appleinsider notes error messages when attempting to de-protect the latest files with Fairplay.

I was figuring 4.5 would include some anti-drm stuff. I see that as probably the trend for all future versions constant updates to thwart the latest anti-drm utilities.

I'm sure people will complain about this here, but as I see it... It's their product and when you sign up you're agreeing to their terms. If you don't like it keep buying CDs, use another service, or do illegal downloads. Apple's DRM is the best as far as I'm concerned. Sure unlimited use would be great but not gonna happen, anytime soon anyway.

DRM rant in 3...2...1....
 
Comment

Frisco

macrumors 68020
Sep 24, 2002
2,475
69
Utopia
At least this shows to the Record Labels that Apple is taking an active approach to prevent piracy. If Apple did nothing the Labels might lose confidence in Apple DRM.

I for one have never run into any issues or limitations using my protected audio files. I don't even give it a second thought that they are protected. If I didn't know any better I would have thought they were just regular MP3s.

Apple's DRM is very fair--I hate when people try to ruin it!
 
Comment

LEgregius

macrumors member
Jun 13, 2003
81
10
Virginia
DRM stripped backups...

I don't usually run into the DRM problems, and I'm glad Apple gives us the ability to buy and download music. But I, for one, like the idea of stripping out the DRM without losing quality because, in theory, Apple could simple shut down the service one day and make all of the music I purchased useless once I buy a new computer. That's the same kind of thing as the problem of a DVD getting damaged - without the ability to copy the DVD, I'm out of luck and have to buy it again.

I do think DRM in technically evil, but I also think that consumers will drive keeping DRM from being too restrictive. People won't buy music they can't listen to in the manner they wish.

It would be nice if Apple put in their contract that, should they shutdown the service, we will be given a program to strip out the DRM. That would only be fair.
 
Comment

SpY2K

macrumors newbie
Dec 10, 2003
24
0
Minneapolis, MN
I applaud Apple for thier quick resolutions to disabling these stripping applications. Finally, the world of internet music is flourishing legally and there are still efforts to tarnish this movement. Keep up the battle Apple, way to stop these anti-DRM folks dead in thier tracks... :cool:
 
Comment

arn

macrumors god
Staff member
Apr 9, 2001
15,647
4,423
Frisco said:
At least this shows to the Record Labels that Apple is taking an active approach to prevent piracy. If Apple did nothing the Labels might lose confidence in Apple DRM.

I for one have never run into any issues or limitations using my protected audio files. I don't even give it a second thought that they are protected. If I didn't know any better I would have thought they were just regular MP3s.
!

Yep... this is a must-do for Apple. Apple needs to keep appearances of protecting the DRM - otherwise, the labels aren't going to like it.

arn
 
Comment

sinisterdesign

macrumors 6502
Dec 10, 2003
422
3
atlanta
i just don't want these a$$hats that are trying to get around Apple's DRM to start making the people who are on the fence about releasing their music to iTMS nervous.

are there ALWAYS going to be people trying to find a way to steal/thwart/hack their way around stuff like this? of course. is it more secure than me being able to burn a hundred copies of a CD that i own? of course.

i love iTMS & i'm hoping more & more artists/execs decide to open their libraries up and dump everything they have online. we don't need people pointing to Fairplay & saying, "see? i told you it's not secure, we'll keep selling our music on CDs..."
 
Comment

Pants

macrumors regular
Aug 21, 2001
194
4
broken already...

"iTunes 4.5: iTunes 4.5 uses a new authentication algorithm. However, not even 24 hours after I downloaded it, and that includes a little sleep and lots of uni time, I've broken it. Hah. Anyhow, libopendaap 0.2.0 and tunesbrowser 0.1.4 are now available."

go find the link yourselves...
 
Comment

Awimoway

macrumors 65816
Sep 13, 2002
1,498
16
California
I think it's a good model for Apple: Anyone who buys DRM-governed music from iTMS has an incentive to keep iTunes updated if they ever want to make additional purchases from the store. Free music every week and the inability to share music with older versions of iTunes increase that incentive. Apple simply has to implement counter-measures to DRM-stripping software in every new release. The crackers never get very far, and the music labels are happy.
 
Comment

azdude

macrumors 6502
Sep 27, 2003
388
16
Arn:

It's worth noting that iTunes 4.5 ALSO disabled rendezvous-scooping programs like MyTunes (PC), Leechster (Mac) and GetTunes (Mac). None of them work anymore.

iPodlounge posted a blurb on it, and I've tested all three.

I can see why they'd do it (College campus rendezvous + MyTunes = Piracy), but it was a great tool within my own home. :( :rolleyes:
 
Comment

travishill

macrumors regular
Jan 6, 2004
127
0
Pants said:
broken already...
"iTunes 4.5: iTunes 4.5 uses a new authentication algorithm. However, not even 24 hours after I downloaded it, and that includes a little sleep and lots of uni time, I've broken it. Hah. Anyhow, libopendaap 0.2.0 and tunesbrowser 0.1.4 are now available."

That has nothing to do with the DRM on the new M4P files you purchase. That is just the algorithm for sharing files over a network.
 
Comment

mixylplik3

macrumors member
Apr 29, 2004
34
0
Boston
I love iTMS and use it regularly. I also am glad to see Apple crack down on these things. That being said, I also like being able to free my puchased music to do what I please with it if the situation calls for it. I don't trade MP3s with friends nor do I share them on P2P networks. My music is mine. I rip from streams all the time and buy from iTMS. I do what I please with my music.

There is always a way around things. I support Apple but also support doing what I want with my music.
 
Comment

kingtj

macrumors 68030
Oct 23, 2003
2,606
747
Brunswick, MD
Yes and No....

I totally understand Apple's position on this. (They can't afford to risk losing their ability to offer big-label music via their music store, simply because the recording industry decides iTunes is inherently insecure.)

At the same time, though, the long-term fight should be aimed at getting the recording industry to understand that DRM is not needed, and simply detracts from the value a paying consumer gets for his/her dollar.

Apple has done all of us a service, by raising the bar of what online music sales could be. They managed to take a reluctant recording industry and negotiate with them so they'd at least allow the songs to be sold online and downloaded. But now that they've shown the model can be successful and people really will pay for their music - it's up to the consumers to take the next step.

When I buy a song or album online, I shouldn't have to worry about it not playing on my PC at work, just becase I already "authorized" it for 2 desktops and my laptop I own at home. I shouldn't have to jump through hoops if I forget to "deauthorize" a machine before I sell it to someone else. This is, ultimately, a bunch of nonsense. When I buy the same music on CD from a retail outlet, I don't run into some limit on how many different CD players I can play it in!


SpY2K said:
I applaud Apple for thier quick resolutions to disabling these stripping applications. Finally, the world of internet music is flourishing legally and there are still efforts to tarnish this movement. Keep up the battle Apple, way to stop these anti-DRM folks dead in thier tracks... :cool:
 
Comment

Azmordean

macrumors 6502
Mar 10, 2004
250
0
Silicon Valley
sethypoo said:
This is good news to me.

I think that Apple's DRM is very fair, and that these stripping applications need to go.

I agree the DRM is fair, especially with the 5 computer allowance. That should cover most people on both home and work machines. That said, there are still two areas Apple needs to address to truly make FairPlay DRM fair:

1) Linux compatability -- as it is, it is still not possible to play ITMS files on a Linux machines. I do not use linux personally, but I know many people for whom this is a major turn off. There is no reason apple shouldn't remedy this - you'd think with their commitment to open source, they'd release a version of iTunes for Linux. Alternatively, Apple could simply release some kind of plugin for XMMS that allows it to decode fairplay files.

2) MP3 player support - this is another achilles heal for apple. They need to either start licensing fairplay so other non-iPod players can support ITMS files OR make a sub-$100 player themselves (talking the $99 price range). I am a perfect example of this - I lift weights and run regularly and the ONLY thing I want an MP3 player for is for these activities. I will not use it at all otherwise. Therefore, something like a 64mb flash player would serve my needs just fine. I simply cannot justify spending 250 bucks on an ipod mini for this use right now. If apple had a sub-100 dollar player for people like me I'd buy it in an instant.
 
Comment

ktb53

macrumors newbie
Apr 23, 2003
18
0
California
Good for Apple!

I'm glad that apple is agressively going after these people who are in effect stealing. If you don't like apple's DRM then you shouldn't purchase songs on iTunes. I find it hard to believe that anyone building these applications is a supporter of Apple. If these stripping applications become widely used it could seriously hurt Apple's ability to stay the industry leader in this area and continue to grow and build itunes.
 
Comment

Azmordean

macrumors 6502
Mar 10, 2004
250
0
Silicon Valley
LEgregius said:
I don't usually run into the DRM problems, and I'm glad Apple gives us the ability to buy and download music. But I, for one, like the idea of stripping out the DRM without losing quality because, in theory, Apple could simple shut down the service one day and make all of the music I purchased useless once I buy a new computer. That's the same kind of thing as the problem of a DVD getting damaged - without the ability to copy the DVD, I'm out of luck and have to buy it again.

I do think DRM in technically evil, but I also think that consumers will drive keeping DRM from being too restrictive. People won't buy music they can't listen to in the manner they wish.

It would be nice if Apple put in their contract that, should they shutdown the service, we will be given a program to strip out the DRM. That would only be fair.

I wouldn't worry about this too much -- it seems to me, if they ever shut it down, the DRM will be cracked real quick. And at that point, no one would care too much.
 
Comment

Vonnie

macrumors regular
Apr 13, 2003
138
0
<i>broken already...

"iTunes 4.5: iTunes 4.5 uses a new authentication algorithm. However, not even 24 hours after I downloaded it, and that includes a little sleep and lots of uni time, I've broken it. Hah. Anyhow, libopendaap 0.2.0 and tunesbrowser 0.1.4 are now available."

go find the link yourselves...</i>

That blurb has nothing to do with the DRM attached to bought files, but with the rendez-vous sharing.

Personally, I hope either playfair cracks the new drm soon, or Apple releases their DRM system to third-party developers. What Apple is doing, is basically locking in their customers to itunes and ipod. This is exactly the same thing that Microsoft did with Word. We don't need yet another monopoly-abusing company.
 
Comment

fpnc

macrumors 68000
Oct 30, 2002
1,928
96
San Diego, CA
Roxio's Toast can no longer "burn" iTunes songs.

You can forget about the debate concerning DRM-breaking software, Apple has the right (and means) to interfer with such software. HOWEVER, it appears that the latest iTunes update also breaks software that was not violating the DRM. Note the following item:

I am sorry to report that it appears that the latest update to Apple's iTunes (v4.5) has affirmed one of the common criticisms directed towards the use of digital rights management (DRM). Specifically, the latest iTunes update has broken what was previously an Apple supported and I believe legal use of Apple's DRM-protected songs. After updating to the latest iTunes I can no longer create functional audio CDs from my iTunes purchases when using Roxio's Toast Titanium CD/DVD burning software. It is, however, still possible to burn music CDs using the iTunes Player, but the latest version of Toast (v6.0.5 release only one week ago on Apr. 23, 2004) can no longer create CDs from Apple's DRM-protected songs. The DRM-protected songs get burned to the disc but produce no sound when they are played (audio data seems to be zeroed). I'm running Mac OS X 10.3.3 with the latest QuickTime Pro v6.5.1 software.

The reason this is a significant development is that some users who may have previously relied upon the Toast software to create music CDs will no longer be able to convert their iTunes purchases into standard audio CDs. I'm sure that there are a fair number of iTunes Music store customers who have relied upon Toast to create CDs because Toast has generally supported a wider range of third-party CD burners than has Apple's iTunes software. Toast also supports advanced CD feature such as CD TEXT and the creation of Enhanced Audio CDs (audio CD compatible discs that also contains video and photos). The iTunes Player does not support any of these options and as I previously mentioned some users may have third-party CD burners that do not work with Apple's iTunes Player.

So, we now have a situation where a change in Apple's DRM has at least partially "broken" a user's access to his or her legally purchased music. I can only hope that Apple and/or Roxio can correct this problem without delay.
 
Comment
Yay, thank god. Like many, I think the deal with itms provides plenty of leeway, and if you're going to run into trouble with that, you can always buy a CD, burn and rerip, etc. What they give you is generous, there's really no need for cracking it. And, if they want selling online to be legitimate AT ALL, they must do this.

That said, I'm dissapointed that this broke mytunes and gettunes also. There's a big difference between preventing piracy of the music you're selling, and preventing piracy of music that's simply played on something you make. mytunes et al. were never effective against fairplay, and only took unprotected music that could have been gotten through SMB browsing, just not with the same ease. I'm just uncomfortable with this level of proactivity being set as a precedent. If something illegal can be done on a piece of sofware that was designed for perfectly legitimate uses, and the maker of the legal software decides it's their vigilante duty to block the software that works with theirs to make stuff illegal, what comes of it? Wouldn't this standard make it perfectly logical and legitimate for apple (and, god forbid, microsoft) to make things like acquisition, Kazaa, etc. unable to work, as well as find ways to block the million illegal things one can do on the internet? Isn't this going a bit far?
 
Comment

Spades

macrumors 6502
Oct 24, 2003
461
0
There's a third area. Use in any app outside of iTunes where conversion is required. This used to work by using quicktime to do the conversion, but now quicktime just exports silence when you try to convert a protected file. No iMovie. No Roxio. Probably no GarageBand. It worked before, so why did they suddenly remove it? As far as the DRM goes, stripping with quicktime was no better than the CD Burn/Rip method, which still works.

jahutch said:
I agree the DRM is fair, especially with the 5 computer allowance. That should cover most people on both home and work machines. That said, there are still two areas Apple needs to address to truly make FairPlay DRM fair:

1) Linux compatability
2) MP3 player support
 
Comment

pEZ

macrumors 6502
Feb 2, 2003
384
0
Madison, Wisconsin
I think is fantastic that Apple is going after these programs. They do need to go away. Especially because of the fact that there is a built-in DRM-stripping tool right inside iTunes...just burn an audio cd...
 
Comment
Register on MacRumors! This sidebar will go away, and you'll see fewer ads.