AppleCare+ and replacements of bands (Sport and Watch, not Edition)

[fischersd]

I thought I would post this off of the main forum, as it's been discussed several times and everyone (of all watch types) should be armed with the information.

This is NOT for the Watch Edition - that has its own set of policies.

I spoke with Ryan in Apple's Warranty Policy department today concerning the Terms and Conditions (T's & C's) of the AppleCare+ agreement as there was debate about whether it was just the band that was included with the watch or if additional bands you purchase are also covered under AC+. The latter is the case. If you want to use one of your two incidents to replace your band, that you purchased separately from the watch, you can do so. (I'm sure they'll also caution it needs to be an approved combination - so those buying a link bracelet for a sport may be in for a shock). He is confirming this with Apple's Legal department and will get back to me this coming Thursday (14th) to confirm Legal's agreement with the interpretation.

Note: Agreement Administration was quick to state that whatever band is attached to the watch at the time of damage would be the one AppleCare would be covering. (so, no throwing your standalone bands into the wood chipper!)

The second item I had them clarify was whether both the watch and band being damaged in the same incident would take multiple AC+ events to repair (effectively, stripping you of your accidental coverage in one incident). There seems to be a disconnect between Apple's Retail and AppleCare+ on this, as Agreement Administration stated this should be one claim. Agreement Administration is escalating this to upper management and said we should have everyone on the same page before the end of the month.

I'll post an update after Ryan calls me back Thursday, confirming this policy with their Legal department.

Aside: obviously, you wouldn't want to use an event for a sport band costing less than the event would.

This thread is only to inform everyone of these two issues I'm working to get Apple to clarify for everyone. This is NOT a catch-all thread for AppleCare questions. Please keep those to other threads for those topics, thanks.

 

[AppleSnitch]

Deleted

 

[fischersd]

Simply not true, senior advisors aren't as knowledgable as you may be led to believe. Our team was trained with the corporate family room director for our market which covers a quarter of the continental U.S.

Band and watch damaged, want to get both replaced, it's two different incidents.

Unless apple changes the directive this is what is being trained across retail stores.

Ok, I'll get him to run it up the ladder when we talk again on Thursday.

Can you PM me the name of someone in authority that he should talk to?

 

[indecision]

Contact tim cook's email. You will get in contact with executive relations, they are usually up to date with policies and will tell you firmly.

 

[fischersd]

Contact tim cook's email. You will get in contact with executive relations, they are usually up to date with policies and will tell you firmly.

The guy I talked to was in warranty policy.

I'd like to get him to talk to AppleSnitch's higher-up, so we can determine where the disconnect is.

If this is the case, they really do need to update the T's & C's with that information.

 

[indecision]

The guy I talked to was in warranty policy.

I'd like to get him to talk to AppleSnitch's higher-up, so we can determine where the disconnect is.

If this is the case, they really do need to update the T's & C's with that information.

Well Executive escalation is the highest form, They report directly to tim cook so I'm sure they would have a proper answer. No one apple care will help you to be honest.

 

[fischersd]

Well Executive escalation is the highest form, They report directly to tim cook so I'm sure they would have a proper answer. No one apple care will help you to be honest.

You really think they report to Tim? Why would you think that?

I find it hard to believe the people for managing the Apple Care program wouldn't want to ensure customer expectations aren't properly set, so they're not dealing with numerous angry customer escalations down the road.

 

[AppleSnitch]

Deleted

 

[fischersd]

There is a massive disconnect in between retail and AppleCare. AppleCare is run very differently than retail, and they are commonly misinformed and untrained in retail policies. There are countless instances at the Genius Bar where AppleCare will tell a customer to "just come in" and we will be able to see them where you guys know this is probably not true if we're fully booked out.

They also commonly quote customers a free replacement when they shouldn't be and then we look like the bad guys when we have to issue a out of warranty cost or a DOS. (denial of service)

AppleCare and Apple Retail are two different beasts and two different entities run VERY differently

Ok, but it's their program. You guys need to be on the same page about whether multiple items being damaged by one incident is a single claim or multiple. How can you set customer expectations if the document suggests one thing, but the retail staff are saying another?

 

[AppleSnitch]

Deleted

 

[fischersd]

AppleCare is not run by the "AppleCare" department, they are simply advisors, it's run by corporate. corporate training documents stated that bands and watches are treated separately. While I haven't seen AppleCare's documents they should be the same ones. Everyone gets the same VMIs, and everyone should be able to access GSX, the documents never state that bands and watches are to be covered in a single incident.

The T's & C's for AC+ available to customers don't state that it would be multiple incidents.

Purchasing a warranty package is like buying insurance. If I get into an accident with my car, does each part broken count as a separate claim? Nope.

This needs to be clearly stated in the T's & C's so your customers are educated and know what they're buying.

 

[nasa25]

The apple care + would be on the original watch and band combo, not subsequent band purchases. Outside of the link band and perhaps the modern buckle, I don't think it would make much sense using one of your two incidents on band damage, unless your AC+ is about to expire and you have unused incidents I guess.

 

[Brian Y]

Simply not true, senior advisors aren't as knowledgable as you may be led to believe. Our team was trained with the corporate family room director for our market which covers a quarter of the continental U.S.

Band and watch damaged, want to get both replaced, it's two different incidents.

Unless apple changes the directive this is what is being trained across retail stores.

That won't wash with insurance law here in the UK. In fact, from the T&C:

1.13. “Covered Equipment” means the Apple-branded iPhone, iPad, iPod, Apple Watch or Apple Watch Sport identified by the product serial number shown on Your POC certificate, as well as the original accessories supplied in the same box. The Covered Equipment must have been purchased as new from Apple or an Apple Authorised Reseller no more than 60 days before the date You purchase this Policy or, where legal ownership of the Covered Equipment has been transferred to You, the Policy must have been transferred to You pursuant to clause 11 of this Policy.


“Accidental Damage” means physical damage, breakage or failure of Your Covered Equipment due to an unforeseen and unintentional event occurring either due to handling (e.g. dropping the Covered Equipment or through liquid contact ) or due to an external event (e.g. extreme environmental or atmospheric conditions). The damage must affect the functionality of Your Covered Equipment, which includes cracks to the display screen that affect the visibility of the display.

1.17. “Insured Event” means (a) Accidental Damage to Your Covered Equipment and/or Battery Depletion and/or (b) the need to use Technical Support, which occurs during the Coverage Period.

Therefore, it is quite clear that an incident is any event of damage to your watch/strap/whatever - these terms and conditions do not state, under any circumstances, that each piece of covered equipment will need to be subject to a different excess. Any pieces of covered equipment damaged in one incident/event will be covered under one claim.

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AppleCare is not run by the "AppleCare" department, they are simply advisors, it's run by corporate. corporate training documents stated that bands and watches are treated separately. While I haven't seen AppleCare's documents they should be the same ones. Everyone gets the same VMIs, and everyone should be able to access GSX, the documents never state that bands and watches are to be covered in a single incident.

I'm not sure where you claim to work, but this post suggests that it's not an Apple retail store or Apple itself.

There is an AppleCare team, and internal documents won't be on GSX (or at least not accessed this way), they will be on another system which I won't name. The only people who would have to access documents via GSX are AASPs, for whom this point is moot as they can't service watches (yet).

 

[fischersd]

The apple care + would be on the original watch and band combo, not subsequent band purchases. Outside of the link band and perhaps the modern buckle, I don't think it would make much sense using one of your two incidents on band damage, unless your AC+ is about to expire and you have unused incidents I guess.

I'm saying that their warranty policy states that it can be extended to any bands you purchase for your watch. If the bands are more valuable than a claim cost, why wouldn't you exercise it? Especially for a $500 link bracelet??

This will be confirmed by Apple's Legal department by next Thursday. You want to argue with their legal department? You don't have much experience with lawyers, do you?

 

[Brian Y]

I'm saying that their warranty policy states that it can be extended to any bands you purchase for your watch. If the bands are more valuable than a claim cost, why wouldn't you exercise it? Especially for a $500 link bracelet??

This will be confirmed by Apple's Legal department by next Thursday. You want to argue with their legal department? You don't have much experience with lawyers, do you?

For what it's worth, the AC+ terms and conditions (which are the legally binding agreement we have) explicitly states accessories shipped in the original box. Any coverage for other straps would be a gesture of goodwill on Apple's part. Their policy might be to cover other bands, but the agreement (legally speaking) doesn't.

Slightly annoying, as other policies (e.g. Mac) often cover accessories bought before and after the mac (my airports are covered under my mac's applecare, for example).

 

[nasa25]

I'm saying that their warranty policy states that it can be extended to any bands you purchase for your watch. If the bands are more valuable than a claim cost, why wouldn't you exercise it? Especially for a $500 link bracelet??

This will be confirmed by Apple's Legal department by next Thursday. You want to argue with their legal department? You don't have much experience with lawyers, do you?

I wasn't aware that the warranty could be extended to subsequent band purchases but thanks for clarifying that. What I was saying is that outside of the link band and modern buckle that are pretty costly, it would not make much sense to claim on the warranty and risk having future incidents with the actual watch case not be covered.

Edit - just read my agreement. Where does it say that additional accessories are covered?

 

[fischersd]

I wasn't aware that the warranty could be extended to subsequent band purchases but thanks for clarifying that. What I was saying is that outside of the link band and modern buckle that are pretty costly, it would not make much sense to claim on the warranty and risk having future incidents with the actual watch case not be covered.

Edit - just read my agreement. Where does it say that additional accessories are covered?

It doesn't. I said that it is - see my first post at the top? The T's and C's should be updated to let people know that. They also need to be updated if it's true that two items being damaged at the same time would necessitate two claims under AppleCare.

On the phone with Apple (again) to make sure that escalation happens to get the AppleCare program and Retail management talking to each other.

 

[JayLenochiniMac]

Edit - just read my agreement. Where does it say that additional accessories are covered?

Correct. Unless it's in writing, it's meaningless.

However, we do have in writing that the original out-of-the-box band is covered:

http://www.apple.com/legal/sales-support/applecare/applecareplus/docs/applecareplusnaen.html

"This service contract governs the hardware service and technical support provided to you by Apple under the above-mentioned plans (each referred to herein as the “Plan”) for an Apple-branded iPhone, iPad, iPod, Apple Watch or, Apple Watch Sport and the accessories contained in its original packaging"

 

[fischersd]

Correct. Unless it's in writing, it's meaningless.

That much, at least we can agree on. The intent is to get Legal to agree and to have the T's and C's updated.

 

[edlex]

It would be nice to get this resolved once and for all.

 

[fischersd]

I really do love spending most of my afternoon on the phone with Apple.

So, here's the deal:

Agreement Administration (AppleCare) is escalating with senior management to get the message out that multiple components do NOT signify multiple claims. Communication will be going to Retail before the end of this month to ensure everyone's on the same page. They were unsure if Legal would deem to update the T's and C's - as the document doesn't state anywhere that it would treat multiple components as more than one claim.

Ryan in warranty (which they couldn't find for me - wtf??) - I'll be in conversation with Thursday, presuming he calls me back. It's Legal that will decide if the T's and C's get updated to indicate that AppleCare+ also covers your bands that you purchase after the fact.

Agreement Administration was quick to state that whatever band is attached to the watch would be the one AppleCare would be covering. (so, no throwing your standalone bands into the wood chipper!)

Still waiting then to finalize this. Stay tuned.

 

[JayLenochiniMac]

Agreement Administration (AppleCare) is escalating with senior management to get the message out that multiple components do NOT signify multiple claims. Communication will be going to Retail before the end of this month to ensure everyone's on the same page. They were unsure if Legal would deem to update the T's and C's - as the document doesn't state anywhere that it would treat multiple components as more than one claim.

It'd be logical to treat watch and band together as one incident if you damage both at the same time (you run over it with a steamroller or something). My guess is even if they don't update the T&C most Apple Store managers would treat such damage as one incident.

Agreement Administration was quick to state that whatever band is attached to the watch would be the one AppleCare would be covering. (so, no throwing your standalone bands into the wood chipper!)

You should update the OP to clarify this, lest you get bothered with questions down the line as many members only read the OP and don't bother with the rest of the thread.

 

[fischersd]

It'd be logical to treat watch and band together as one incident if you damage both at the same time (you run over it with a steamroller or something). My guess is even if they don't update the T&C most Apple Store managers would treat such damage as one incident.

You would think, but AppleSnitch said otherwise - can't have Retail and AppleCare+ not having the same policies!!

You should update the OP to clarify this, lest you get bothered with questions down the line as many members only read the OP and don't bother with the rest of the thread.

Good idea - will do.

 

[JayLenochiniMac]

You would think, but AppleSnitch said otherwise - can't have Retail and AppleCare+ not having the same policies!!

AppleSnitch may be an alleged Apple Store employee who's foolishly risking his job by visiting this forum (which Apple prohibits their employees from doing), but what he said isn't rooted in logic and is disputed by Agreement Administration. If you crash your car and manage to destroy some property in the process, your insurance company wouldn't treat it as two claims. Likewise, "per incident" is exactly that. If you damage the watch case itself, that's one. If you damage the band itself, that's another. Damage both at the same time, that's still one.

 

[roland.g]

From what I was told, if I get a 42mm SS with BSB to get it sooner and get AC+ and then order the Link band, only the BSB, or whatever band shipped with your watch will be covered. Separately purchases bands include a 1 yr standard warranty.