Apple's graphics team to get boost....

iGav

macrumors G3
Original poster
Mar 9, 2002
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For those that are interested here's a little snapshop from Design Weeks website regarding a new supa-duper graphics department within Apple........

N.B This is the entire article, the link requires you to register...... if you're a creative... it's worth while though.......

Industry sources suggest that Apple Computers is about to make an internal promotion to boost the profile of its graphics department. The move is intended to build on the success of Jonathan Ive in product design and will put graphics on a similar footing in terms of Apple's external branding.

Running the graphics department in the US, the person will take responsibility for packaging, brochures, on-product styling and exhibitions, as well as working with chief executive Steve Jobs' own presentations.

A senior external appointment to the role earlier this year is believed to have backfired when the candidate left the company within days of taking up the job.
or you can check it out at...

http://www.mad.co.uk/DW/home/stories/2002/08/01/0001.asp
 

iGav

macrumors G3
Original poster
Mar 9, 2002
9,025
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Originally posted by arn
registration required...

arn
Oop's Dizzy blonde moment..... I completely forgot you had to register to view some of the articles......... :( lucky I posted the article though........ :)

Any designers, or creatives out there, it's a worth while site registering with.... always some good stuff knocking around......... ;) :)
 

Mr. Anderson

Moderator emeritus
Nov 1, 2001
22,407
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VA
viewgraph engineering for Steve? Now that's got to be something....

Actually, I'm looking forward to what they come up with - Apple has its own style of graphics - clean, slick, if somewhat sterile. I'd love to see something with more of an edge to go along with their computer designs.

D
 

Matthé

macrumors member
Oct 25, 2001
75
0
steve-o

does that mean that Steve's personal presentations will not look as horrible anymoreas they do now?
that dreadfull blue/purple/skewed powerpointish crud
maybe they'll actually start using their iApps themselves
 

iGav

macrumors G3
Original poster
Mar 9, 2002
9,025
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Re: steve-o

Originally posted by Matthé
does that mean that Steve's personal presentations will not look as horrible anymoreas they do now?
that dreadfull blue/purple/skewed powerpointish crud
maybe they'll actually start using their iApps themselves
Heh heh.... that's exactly what I think everytime there's a keynote....... the desk on the stage with top notch powerMacs looks cool, the huge blazing glowing Apple logo's either side of the stage look cool.......

Then there's the Powerpoint presentation he uses....... :eek: :eek: :eek: that most definitely does not look cool...... :p
 

moomin

macrumors newbie
Jan 4, 2002
9
0
new uber designer

Whoever they get for that job, I'm sure they won't be happy branding everything in Myriad!!!

Dont want to sound like a type geek but it is so so plain

Apple Garamond please come back all is forgiven
 

MikeH

macrumors regular
Jan 7, 2002
104
0
Running Steve Jobs graphic design dept. Hmm, that's either going to be heaven or hell.

I'm not sure I'd want Jobs as my boss, looking over my shoulder barking instructions as to how his PowerPoint presentation should look and throwing his dummy out the pram every couple of minutes.

Any idea what the pay is like though?

And if you think Steve's PPT presentations are bad you should see some of the horror stories I've come across.
 

Matthé

macrumors member
Oct 25, 2001
75
0
Job's powerpoints aren't bad bad, but they certainly aren't up to standards next to other apple designed hardware
but the again, os x is hideous too, well the icons are and the i-mac striping all over and the plastic buttons and ...
all not very form follows function unlike their exteriors
 

G4scott

macrumors 68020
Jan 9, 2002
2,219
2
Austin, TX
Jobs can use the iPhoto screen saver with his presentation... Just think of those nice OpenGL fades...

Well, Apple already has a clean, polished look, but maybe something more, to boost the brand recognition (as if Apple wasn't one of the most recognized symbol... :cool: )
 

Mr. Anderson

Moderator emeritus
Nov 1, 2001
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VA
Originally posted by MikeH
Running Steve Jobs graphic design dept. Hmm, that's either going to be heaven or hell.
I imagine it would all depend on how much he wants to provide imput on the presentations or whether he's just happy to have someone to be able to read his mind and know what he wants.

That's how I feel here at my job sometimes. What you end up with, since I can't read minds, is an iterative process that becomes amazingly time consuming, going back and forth with changes. Its not fun.

And I don't see and real alternative right now except using powerpoint - unless they had more time and could set up templates and use Director - that would be cool, becuase you would have much better ability to incorporate multimedia - animating in powerpoint is painful. But the downside to Director is the amount of time it takes to put such a presentation together - and you'd need a plugin to view it. But for the big presentations, that's the way to go. You can have subtle animation/multi media that just comes across as fantastic and not go over the top, sort of like understated power.

D
 

gandalf55

macrumors 6502
Apr 13, 2001
343
0
boston
macromedia flash mx :

- no plugin needed for standalone
- stream audio & video right in
- light-weight animations
- some templates already exist for presentations
- flash remoting
- a lot more

keep that one in mind :)
 

cc bcc

macrumors 6502
Jul 3, 2001
470
0
nl
Originally posted by gandalf55
macromedia flash mx :

- no plugin needed for standalone
- stream audio & video right in
- light-weight animations
- some templates already exist for presentations
- flash remoting
- a lot more

keep that one in mind :)
Flash MX:

- bad anti-aliasing
- bad performance on powerpc, really really bad performance
 

Matthé

macrumors member
Oct 25, 2001
75
0
slooow flash

why is flash slower on Mac? I noticed it too but haven't got a clue as to why
the flash 6/mx browser plug-in seemed to speed things up though
 

gandalf55

macrumors 6502
Apr 13, 2001
343
0
boston
you can control anti-aliasing if you'd like with a simple pixel font:

www.miniml.com

as for the speed - last rev of the flash player did get a speed boost for macs, however i have been told that the architecture of the g3 and g4 chips doesn't process vectors, etc. nearly as well as Intel, even with that Altivec stuff. Macs are fast at pshop type manips, but when it comes down to sheer horsepower of manipulating vector & bitmap data, its a lot slower. Macromedia does all they can with the size of the plugin (very small compared to director).

i would look at apple to get a really, really fast processor, and not just a processor that is fast @ certain things. i have an old NT (if I remember, somewhere around 500Mhz) that i test interactive with, and that **** box can outperform my g4 in many anims (that don't include openGL, etc). it's sad but true.
 

iGav

macrumors G3
Original poster
Mar 9, 2002
9,025
1
Originally posted by dukestreet


I imagine it would all depend on how much he wants to provide imput on the presentations or whether he's just happy to have someone to be able to read his mind and know what he wants.

That's how I feel here at my job sometimes. What you end up with, since I can't read minds, is an iterative process that becomes amazingly time consuming, going back and forth with changes. Its not fun.

And I don't see and real alternative right now except using powerpoint - unless they had more time and could set up templates and use Director - that would be cool, becuase you would have much better ability to incorporate multimedia - animating in powerpoint is painful. But the downside to Director is the amount of time it takes to put such a presentation together - and you'd need a plugin to view it. But for the big presentations, that's the way to go. You can have subtle animation/multi media that just comes across as fantastic and not go over the top, sort of like understated power.

D
Director doesn't require a Plug-in to view, that's Shockwave content for web..... a Projector file will run exactly like a conventional application........ and a DXR file is cross-platform, so you'd only need to compile the a PC exe to run it on Windows........ not the DXR file......

An experienced Director programmer user can almost match the productivity of someone using Powerpoint........ although I doubt this would be an issue for something as important as a major Expo Keynote presentation, the one's they currently use look like it took them an hour to knock up......

I've sat through some mind numbing Powerpoint presentations from clients, and watch fellow creative do CREATIVE pitches using a Powerpoint presentation.... suffice to say, they didn't get the jobs........Powerpoint really is for non-creative corporate companies to present to other corporate non-creative companies........
:p :p :p
 

iGav

macrumors G3
Original poster
Mar 9, 2002
9,025
1
Originally posted by gandalf55
you can control anti-aliasing if you'd like with a simple pixel font:

www.miniml.com

as for the speed - last rev of the flash player did get a speed boost for macs, however i have been told that the architecture of the g3 and g4 chips doesn't process vectors, etc. nearly as well as Intel, even with that Altivec stuff. Macs are fast at pshop type manips, but when it comes down to sheer horsepower of manipulating vector & bitmap data, its a lot slower. Macromedia does all they can with the size of the plugin (very small compared to director).

i would look at apple to get a really, really fast processor, and not just a processor that is fast @ certain things. i have an old NT (if I remember, somewhere around 500Mhz) that i test interactive with, and that **** box can outperform my g4 in many anims (that don't include openGL, etc). it's sad but true.
Plug-ins really are not an issue when using either Flash or Shockwave over the web..... and Director doesn't need a plug-in or a player to play on machine..... either Mac or PC.......

The speed and smoothness of an Director/Flash vector or bitmap animation, depends more on the skill of the developer, if you code it, as opposed to using timeline based animation, you'll notice a huge increase in playback performance.......
 

julzmon

macrumors member
Jul 17, 2001
52
0
NYC
Flash on Mac Slow as HELL

I'm a flash designer and many other guys that I know have bailed ship. Flash on Mac is at a critical state I think. It is incredibly and embarrassedly slow. Try to view a high end Flash site on your Mac and then view it on a PC and be amazed on how smooth it all runs. The creation tool same thing. Flash MX is buggy and runs slow on OS X. Yes I do have to get a faster computer but I'm waiting for the second revision of the next generation of G4.
I think its both Apple's and Macromedia's fault. They need to do something ASAP!
Also notice how much faster Flash runs on Omniweb. I would use that browser all the time if they had support for the very basic elements of websites (like CSS support rollovers and iFrames)

I have not bailed ship yet but it has been tempting to just get some cheep PC so I can do my job at a normal pace and see what the animation looks like to the 90% of the people normally.

Frustrated,
Julz
 

gandalf55

macrumors 6502
Apr 13, 2001
343
0
boston
The speed and smoothness of an Director/Flash vector or bitmap animation, depends more on the skill of the developer, if you code it, as opposed to using timeline based animation, you'll notice a huge increase in playback performance......

========================
that's not true. i code using mathematical tweening (easing equations), etc. all the time. the exact same movie plays faster on a pc than on a mac. even a single, normal tween test will run much faster on a pc. it has nothing to do with the skill of the developer there. find a movie that plays the same speed on a mac & a pc and then you'll have some ammo. macs generally run 10-15fps reliably in flash. a pc runs 15-24 fps. every fps counts.

with SWFXXl : http://www.swfxxl.com, flash can run BLAZING fast (well over 30fps, perhaps even close to 50) - using directX. but thats in a standalone app - and only on a PC. Check that out if you are on a PC and watch your jaw drop. A Flash movie playing low-quality at 320x240 can run full-screen without a hitch in fps. amazing.
 

iGav

macrumors G3
Original poster
Mar 9, 2002
9,025
1
Re: Flash on Mac Slow as HELL

Originally posted by julzmon

I have not bailed ship yet but it has been tempting to just get some cheep PC so I can do my job at a normal pace and see what the animation looks like to the 90% of the people normally.

Frustrated,
Julz
A PC is really need for any cross-platform development....... I'd go and get yourself one for checking any cross platform issues....... ;) :)

You can't develop websites just on a mac if you hope for it to be successful on a PC as well....... nothing too flash though..... you don't want to unecessarily waste your 'New Supa-Duper G4' fund....... :D


Anyway... back onto thread topic, it also says that the designer will be responsible for on product styling as well as Jobs' presentations......... so there's certainly alot of scope for the lucky person whoever gets this role.......
 

iGav

macrumors G3
Original poster
Mar 9, 2002
9,025
1
Originally posted by gandalf55
The speed and smoothness of an Director/Flash vector or bitmap animation, depends more on the skill of the developer, if you code it, as opposed to using timeline based animation, you'll notice a huge increase in playback performance......

========================
that's not true. i code using mathematical tweening (easing equations), etc. all the time. the exact same movie plays faster on a pc than on a mac. even a single, normal tween test will run much faster on a pc. it has nothing to do with the skill of the developer there. find a movie that plays the same speed on a mac & a pc and then you'll have some ammo. macs generally run 10-15fps reliably in flash. a pc runs 15-24 fps. every fps counts.

with SWFXXl : http://www.swfxxl.com, flash can run BLAZING fast (well over 30fps, perhaps even close to 50) - using directX. but thats in a standalone app - and only on a PC. Check that out if you are on a PC and watch your jaw drop. A Flash movie playing low-quality at 320x240 can run full-screen without a hitch in fps. amazing.
I stand completely by my statement...... a coded animation will run better than a timeline based version........... can you point out what wasn't true in my statement???
 

gandalf55

macrumors 6502
Apr 13, 2001
343
0
boston
generally speaking, a coded animation should run faster than a time-based animation. often times it does. but all of it is tied to fps. whether its time-based or not.

however, my point is this:

pcs play flash content at a much higher fps than the exact same flash content on a mac. it's a simple reality. you can be the steve wozniak of flash (very tight routines, optimal btye-code usage), and you will not be able to code something with ActionScript to run faster or just as fast on a Mac as on a PC.