Apple's Problem No. 1

Apple's Problem to market share?

  • Speed?

    Votes: 44 57.9%
  • Price?

    Votes: 31 40.8%
  • Design?

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Software?

    Votes: 1 1.3%

  • Total voters
    76
  • Poll closed .
Status
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krohde

macrumors member
Original poster
May 29, 2002
74
0
Europe, UK
Apple's main customers are and have been for a time now the professional market. In order for apple to gain those extra 5% market share they need obviously to focus more on the consumer market. Thatk, they have done but are still far away from an even small victory. If apple would just try and continue with those speed bumbs so that their clock speeds get closer to those of Intel and AMD they would start to gain A LOT of new customers. Seriusly ask yourself one simple question that you might know the answer to but an average consumer wouldnt - then we have located the problem (e.g. why is it important that the clockspeed matches the CPU speed, isnt the fastest the best?). The computer consumer market goes for three things: 1. Speed 2. Price 3. Design. As we all know apple is definetly the winner in design but their desire for the other two are only available if they get those speeds up! so apple if you are reading this lower your prices (on a standard PM G4 you are about $600-900 over the market prices) and give us those G5's, IBM already has them ready for us!
 

crassusad44

macrumors 6502a
Nov 30, 2001
546
0
Scandinavia
70% of the computer market consists of "stupid" (in terms of technology) people who have heard about something called a computer, which is really cool, and you can be on this big thing called the internet. Many of these people are lured into beliving that higher MHz and bigger screens are all that matter. Apple makes the difference here, creating a solution where normal people can achieve great things (produce home movies, make CDs, burn video DVDs, create their own photo book). I belive Apple is doing the right thing here. Of course, we always need bigger and better machines, but the solution Apple is creating with their iApps, is far, far better than anything else on the market today, and people are strating to realize exactly that.
 

crassusad44

macrumors 6502a
Nov 30, 2001
546
0
Scandinavia
Sorry for the double post, but I have to comment on the poll as well. I will not vote, because I don't see any of the four issues as a problem for Apple to gain market share among the consumer space.

Speed: The G4 in the iMac is more than fast enough!
Price: The iMac price is just right! You get a whole solution that works, for your money. Not just another crappy PC with high clock speed.
Design: 'nuff said
Software: iMovie, iPhoto, iTunes, iDVD, AppleWorks and 18.000 other software titles available for the Mac platform. If you need more, well, then **** off.

Sorry, but I'm pissed on all you single post guys who always complain and bitch!
 

britboy

macrumors 68030
Nov 4, 2001
2,656
0
Kent, UK
Apples problem doesn't lie in any of the options listed, so i'm not going to vote. You can always wish for a faster computer, but look at the requirements for running any of the software anyone's likely to buy. Does the mac fall short on any of the specs? No. It will run what you need, and run it well.

What apple needs to change is the public perception of what a 'good' computer is, and should be. Most people get hung up on the clock speed of the processor, and don't worry about any of the many other important factors in overall performance. These people need 'educating'. Ok, most people don't care to know more, but if you were spending 2k+ on something, wouldn't you want to do a damn lot of research first, to know what you were getting yourself into?
 

ftaok

macrumors 603
Jan 23, 2002
6,146
1,165
East Coast
Re: Apple's Problem No. 1

Originally posted by krohde
... and give us those G5's, IBM already has them ready for us!
What are you talking about???

IBM doesn't even have a PowerPC chip shipping above 700mhz and you're talking about a G5. That's ridiculous.

BTW, Apple's biggest problem is that the "on-the-fence" consumer buys PCs because that's what their friends have. They think the Mac isn't compatible with the PC, so they go with PCs.

Apple needs to convince people that PCs and Macs can work together. The proliferation of the Internet has nearly made the OS a moot point, but there are many sites that don't work properly on a Mac, for whatever reason. Sites that use DirectX (or is it ActiveX) won't work at all. This is a huge problem. Another problem is that a lot of videos on the 'net don't work "easily" on a Mac. Avi's and mpeg's that work fine on a PC take a few more steps on a Mac.

That's what I think Apple needs to work on.
 

crassusad44

macrumors 6502a
Nov 30, 2001
546
0
Scandinavia
Re: Re: Apple's Problem No. 1

Originally posted by ftaok
Avi's and mpeg's that work fine on a PC take a few more steps on a Mac.

That's what I think Apple needs to work on.
Say with me now: Q-u-i-c-k-T-i-m-e S-i-x
 

ftaok

macrumors 603
Jan 23, 2002
6,146
1,165
East Coast
Re: Re: Re: Apple's Problem No. 1

Originally posted by crassusad44
Say with me now: Q-u-i-c-k-T-i-m-e S-i-x
Can you say: W-h-e-n ???

I've been hearing about QT6 and all, but it ain't ready (for whatever reason).

QT6 isn't helping Apple win market share NOW, and that's what this topic is about.
 

kenkooler

macrumors regular
Jan 2, 2002
195
0
Mexico City
I still think software is the major problem... most PC drones prefer to use the same software everyone else is using, complaining when they have different versions. Office for Mac may be better (and looks better too) but that´s not what most people (specially when they don't know about computers) want.
 

Backtothemac

macrumors 601
Jan 3, 2002
4,206
0
San Destin Florida
Re: Re: Re: Re: Apple's Problem No. 1

Originally posted by ftaok
Can you say: W-h-e-n ???

I've been hearing about QT6 and all, but it ain't ready (for whatever reason).

QT6 isn't helping Apple win market share NOW, and that's what this topic is about.
Um, actually, yes, QE6 is ready for launch. The problem is MPEG-4 Licensing. As far as Apple Market share, I am not voting on this either, because I think they have 100% market share. You see they are a niche' player in the business of computing. They really don't compete with PC's anymore. X is going to seperate and remove users from the PC world over to the Mac world. Sure we all know that Apple has a 5% market share, although this last quarter it was at 8.1%. This was a huge jump for one quarter.

Anyway, with over 4 billion in cash reserve, and a dedicate base of users, Apple is in good shape. Besides, I would rather have 5% of the users and have them be an informed user base that stay with the product. Than a bunch of uneducated clones that don't know the difference between 10/100 ethernet and a 56k modem.

ID10T errors are the most common problems on a PC.
 

Hemingray

macrumors 68030
Jan 9, 2002
2,913
25
Ha ha haaa!
I say speed is a problem. Yes, they're fast. A little less than three years ago the G4 wiped the competition. But not anymore, and that's a problem. Hopefully the speed issue will be a moot point in July... Apple seems to always be playing catch up. But when they do, it is so sweet.
 

Backtothemac

macrumors 601
Jan 3, 2002
4,206
0
San Destin Florida
Originally posted by Hemingray
I say speed is a problem. Yes, they're fast. A little less than three years ago the G4 wiped the competition. But not anymore, and that's a problem. Hopefully the speed issue will be a moot point in July... Apple seems to always be playing catch up. But when they do, it is so sweet.
I can agree with you here, but part of the problem with the perceived speed issue is not from Mac users, but because of the PC world. Just imagine if there was no Intel and AMD. Would you be happy with the speed of your Mac? Having Intel there to compare to makes you feel inferior sometimes. Now we all know that a dual 1GHZ will perform on level with any Intel CPU, but does it matter? Inside each of us is the little voice going, "man, if they can hit 2.5 GHZ, why can't we. Imagine a G4 at 2.5GHZ. I want one. Damn Apple for not forcing Moto to do their jobs..."

That is the quagmire that we are in. It is not an actual speed problem, but a perceived problem.
 

ftaok

macrumors 603
Jan 23, 2002
6,146
1,165
East Coast
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Apple's Problem No. 1

Originally posted by Backtothemac
Um, actually, yes, QE6 is ready for launch. The problem is MPEG-4 Licensing.
Yeah, I know this already. But the fact remains that there is no easy way to play many of the avi's and mpeg's that are out on the Internet. The issues with QT6 shouldn't have any impact on the ability of a Mac to play avi files. I could care less about QT6 if they had a plug-in to play avi's, mpeg's and divx files for QT4.
 

Backtothemac

macrumors 601
Jan 3, 2002
4,206
0
San Destin Florida
Originally posted by billiam0878
Hey Backtothemac,

Where did you hear thier market share hit 8.1%? Just curious...;)

Bill
Well, I should say that they accounted for 8.1% of the PC's sold during the quarter. 816,000 of them actually. Dell was the leader at around 36%, but hey, we passed Gateway. They were posted on ZDnet, and look at Apples quarterly earning statement.
 

Backtothemac

macrumors 601
Jan 3, 2002
4,206
0
San Destin Florida
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Apple's Problem No. 1

Originally posted by ftaok
Yeah, I know this already. But the fact remains that there is no easy way to play many of the avi's and mpeg's that are out on the Internet. The issues with QT6 shouldn't have any impact on the ability of a Mac to play avi files. I could care less about QT6 if they had a plug-in to play avi's, mpeg's and divx files for QT4.
You can download and install the Divx codecs for Quicktime and it is just as easy as it is in Windoze. Look, to play divx files on PC, you have to install Divx, Mpeg4, and others. It is difficult on both, because there is no Standard. QE 6 is moving towards making MPEG-4 a standard in teh community.
 

atomwork

macrumors regular
Jun 5, 2001
240
11
Miami Beach
Get real

Hi folks,

think about it like in the car market. Does Ferrari has more then a 5 % share. I guess not. People they own the red diva know what the difference is between it and a plain Ford. I think we have to see the great product like it is. The harddrives are not as loung and bad as on the PC and the whole product seems to be better designed and constructed. Also lets face it. Ever put two machines next to each other and see the difference between Mac OS X and Windows XP.

For this advantage i like to pay 600 bucks more. I think thats what we have to advertise in the conusmers minde.
 

Backtothemac

macrumors 601
Jan 3, 2002
4,206
0
San Destin Florida
Re: Get real

Originally posted by atomwork
Hi folks,

think about it like in the car market. Does Ferrari has more then a 5 % share. I guess not. People they own the red diva know what the difference is between it and a plain Ford. I think we have to see the great product like it is. The harddrives are not as loung and bad as on the PC and the whole product seems to be better designed and constructed. Also lets face it. Ever put two machines next to each other and see the difference between Mac OS X and Windows XP.

For this advantage i like to pay 600 bucks more. I think thats what we have to advertise in the conusmers minde.
Agreed. Apple needs to spend time getting X into the consumers mind. The only way to do that is by advertising the strengths of X. Now I know that I would pay more to have a system that would run X. Imagine a Flash demo CD going out on every copy of AOL's CD's that auto run. It would be a nice little flash demo showing OS X. Nothing long mind you, just a collection of images, and small flash movies showind the dock in motion or something with pics flashing, and words like Unix Based, and Powerful, Beautiful, etc popping up.
 

ftaok

macrumors 603
Jan 23, 2002
6,146
1,165
East Coast
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Apple's Problem No. 1

Originally posted by Backtothemac
You can download and install the Divx codecs for Quicktime and it is just as easy as it is in Windoze. Look, to play divx files on PC, you have to install Divx, Mpeg4, and others. It is difficult on both, because there is no Standard. QE 6 is moving towards making MPEG-4 a standard in teh community.
OK, so maybe Divx was a bad example, but avi's is still a valid example.

If I want to play an avi on my PC (not that I'd want to - 120mhz Pentium I with no cache), I open up Media Player and viola! On my iBook, I have to convert it to a QT file and mess with the soundtrack and all. It's a hassle and a half.

But the other half of my point was about websites that don't run properly because Apple doesn't have DirectX (or is it ActiveX) support. I think Yahoo Media doesn't work on Mac, not to mention MSN Money Portfolio.
 

Backtothemac

macrumors 601
Jan 3, 2002
4,206
0
San Destin Florida
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Apple's Problem No. 1

Originally posted by ftaok
OK, so maybe Divx was a bad example, but avi's is still a valid example.

If I want to play an avi on my PC (not that I'd want to - 120mhz Pentium I with no cache), I open up Media Player and viola! On my iBook, I have to convert it to a QT file and mess with the soundtrack and all. It's a hassle and a half.

But the other half of my point was about websites that don't run properly because Apple doesn't have DirectX (or is it ActiveX) support. I think Yahoo Media doesn't work on Mac, not to mention MSN Money Portfolio.
I understand the frustration on that front. That is a feature set. In other words DirectX is like OpenGL. Windows XP doesn't support it fully, and neither does it support MP3 fully any longer either. It would be like saying that Mac's have terminal, and Windows doesn't. See what I mean. Oh, and ActiveX will work on a Mac won't it?
 

hobie

macrumors member
May 27, 2002
64
0
far, far away
Originally posted by Backtothemac

I can agree with you here, but part of the problem with the perceived speed issue is not from Mac users, but because of the PC world. Just imagine if there was no Intel and AMD. Would you be happy with the speed of your Mac? Having Intel there to compare to makes you feel inferior sometimes. Now we all know that a dual 1GHZ will perform on level with any Intel CPU, but does it matter? Inside each of us is the little voice going, "man, if they can hit 2.5 GHZ, why can't we. Imagine a G4 at 2.5GHZ. I want one. Damn Apple for not forcing Moto to do their jobs..."

That is the quagmire that we are in. It is not an actual speed problem, but a perceived problem.
Well, I am an ex-PeeCee user, and though it was a rather slow 700mhz duron I could work with all apps I wanted SIMULTANEOUSLY (Word, Excel, Powerpoint, Photoshop, Outlook/Entourage, iTunes/Winamp, IE, and some other stuff). It virtually never felt sluggish! Try this with 10.1.4 on an iBook 500 and you'll see the difference.

And to subtend your thread: Even without comparing PC and Apple performances I'm not happy at all with the current iBook speeds! I want a snappy system even with 15+ apps opened at once. At least when some of them are hidden! And this is what Apple doesn't give to me now. If it's possible with 1ghz, then let it be so. But if they need 5ghz for that, then they should quickly go there!

I mean, single tasking was OS9 and thus G4s may have burned wintels, but they definitely don't in OS X's multitasking environment.

However, workflow is still far better on my tiny icebook than on every windos system. Even with a bit sluggishment :)
 

ftaok

macrumors 603
Jan 23, 2002
6,146
1,165
East Coast
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Apple's Problem No. 1

Originally posted by Backtothemac
I understand the frustration on that front. That is a feature set. In other words DirectX is like OpenGL. Windows XP doesn't support it fully, and neither does it support MP3 fully any longer either. It would be like saying that Mac's have terminal, and Windows doesn't. See what I mean. Oh, and ActiveX will work on a Mac won't it?
I think that I may be confusing DirectX with ActiveX. The websites that I used to use on my PC had these applets that could track your investments and such. MSN Money had a great portfolio program.

Since moving back to the Mac, I've found that ActiveX (I'm pretty sure it's ActiveX) isn't supported on the Mac. That's a little frustrating.
 

AlphaTech

macrumors 601
Oct 4, 2001
4,556
0
Natick, MA
Originally posted by crassusad44
Sorry for the double post, but I have to comment on the poll as well. I will not vote, because I don't see any of the four issues as a problem for Apple to gain market share among the consumer space.

Speed: The G4 in the iMac is more than fast enough!
Price: The iMac price is just right! You get a whole solution that works, for your money. Not just another crappy PC with high clock speed.
Design: 'nuff said
Software: iMovie, iPhoto, iTunes, iDVD, AppleWorks and 18.000 other software titles available for the Mac platform. If you need more, well, then **** off.

Sorry, but I'm pissed on all you single post guys who always complain and bitch!
Good spread on the pissing pattern :D... I was going to blast the newbie but you did pretty much that for me.

As for the speed issue... it's NOT all about the MHz. AMD also subscribes to the Megahertz Mythology being bunk (just like Apple)... they put it in a way that most people (with brains at least) can understand...

Picture this: A Blue Car with a 6-cylinder endinge is racing a Green Car with a more powerful, 8-cylinder engine. The Blue Car's engine works hard by running at high RPMs. The Green Car, on the other hand, runs at lower RPMs but can blow the doors off the Blue Car. Why? Because the Green Car is designed for a more efficient, faster driving experience.

The same goes for processors. Some processors have to rev their engines to high RPMs (measure in Megahertz or Gigahertz) just to achieve similar levels of performance.
 

Hemingray

macrumors 68030
Jan 9, 2002
2,913
25
Ha ha haaa!
Originally posted by hobie
Well, I am an ex-PeeCee user, and though it was a rather slow 700mhz duron I could work with all apps I wanted SIMULTANEOUSLY (Word, Excel, Powerpoint, Photoshop, Outlook/Entourage, iTunes/Winamp, IE, and some other stuff). It virtually never felt sluggish! Try this with 10.1.4 on an iBook 500 and you'll see the difference.
That is partially due to the hardware, but the OS is an even bigger chunk of that performance. We're all anxiously awaiting Jaguar, that should turn the tables a bit!

Re: Backtothemac's reply about perceived problems, you're right. But we are competing. Not simply because we know we have the better platform, but we also want to convert Windows/PC users. And their "perceived" speed difference compared to the Mac platform is enough to keep a lot of them away. So whether Macs are fast or not, they're not as fast as the PC competition and that's enough to keep a lot of the PC users from converting.
 

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