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Apple's Proposed Phone-Scanning Child Safety Features 'Invasive, Ineffective, and Dangerous,' Say Cybersecurity Researchers in New Study

Pro Apple Silicon said:
Again, no illusions on my part that this isn't already happening in some capacity and has been all along. They're just telling you about it now.
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If they've always been doing it (to some degree), then how can you explain why they even bothered telling anyone about it now?

You can always argue that there is slippery language buried within the existing Terms of Service and the wall of text click through agreements, but none of it ever claimed to do what this almost deployed CSAM scheme has done.

And if you feel that your vendor is already spying on you without consent, why would you even give them any leeway at all?

Also, your claims of 'fomenting faux outrage' are just impolite and off-base, given the measured and cogent responses of many major organizations, news outlets, security researchers and privacy proponents; and Apple's own response to delaying such a poorly thought out and invasive structure.
 
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Pro Apple Silicon said:
Again, no illusions on my part that this isn't already happening in some capacity and has been all along. They're just telling you about it now.
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I hear you, but I guess my hope is that if enough peole exert pressure through choice of products they buy and through the officials they elect that privacy won't be a thing of the past. The first step is exposing violations of, and threats to, privacy. Just merely accepting these violations/threats, or trying to avoid them by going off-grid, won't work in the long run. We're about to enter into the era of cheap AI, and when AI is combined with personal data, it poses a huge threat which I do not think many have recognised. As I have stated before, I genuinely think we will be the last generation that will have any chance of putting controls on the uses and abuses of AI.
 
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Pummers said:
If they've always been doing it (to some degree), then how can you explain why they even bothered telling anyone about it now?

You can always argue that there is slippery language buried within the existing Terms of Service and the wall of text click through agreements, but none of it ever claimed to do what this almost deployed CSAM scheme has done.

And if you feel that your vendor is already spying on you without consent, why would you even give them any leeway at all?

Also, your claims of 'fomenting faux outrage' are just impolite and off-base, given the measured and cogent responses of many major organizations, news outlets, security researchers and privacy proponents; and Apple's own response to delaying such a poorly thought out and invasive structure.
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1. This is how large entities always behave. They slowly, incrementally make you comfortable with new extremes. The more you know, the less they have to hide.
2. And no, the claims are not impolite. The "measure and cogent responses" that you champion are all theater.
 
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nickdalzell1 said:
Boiling frog syndrome
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Yes. And this is why I've not liked the scanning proposal. It's a step towards increased spying on people. Or, to use the boiling frog analogy, the burner gets turned up a notch.

(Off topic, but I cringe at even the thought of a metaphorical "boiling frog"--I like frogs.)
 
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WriteNow said:
(Off topic, but I cringe at even the thought of a metaphorical "boiling frog"--I like frogs.)
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I'm a lover of all animals. My favorite is deer, especially doe's. They're angels and have helped me through rough times in my life, just finding their way to me somehow, some way. I cringe when humans harm them.

Picture of Daisy, a doe I 'deerly' miss. She lived to be 16, I met her when she was 13. Camera was an old flip phone pre-paid Samsung Verizon that had a mere 1 MP. She loved to play fetch, and acted much like a large dog. She was very 'undeerlike' for a deer, and it made her very unique.

19470_100193733346536_3582847_N_100193733346536.jpeg
 
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I wish better cameras existed at that time that I could've afford. Photo was taken in August of 2009. It always brightens people's day seeing it. I always shared her with everyone. I was more active on Facebook then and she was quite popular!
 
nickdalzell1 said:
I wish better cameras existed at that time that I could've afford. Photo was taken in August of 2009.
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I'm surprised that the photo is as good as it is! My flip phone had terrible photo quality--usable (for me) for nothing more than light utility use (like photographing something in a car engine that I wanted to run by my mechanic).

nickdalzell1 said:
It always brightens people's day seeing it.
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I imagine the photo does!
 
Oh, much like I'm quite talented in keeping old tech going, I also am talented in making the most of limited hardware, including smartphone cameras. Here's a more recent photo from 2015; at a deer park. My girlfriend is in the background. This photo was taken with a Pantech Breakout (5.0MP, no flash, running Android 2.3)

deer.jpg
 
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Can someone with far more motivation than me tell me if these new terms have a clause allowing on-device scanning? If so I can just decline and never miss it. Otherwise, might as well use it as long as I’m not donating my life to Timmy Apples.
 
My concern is that Apple has only delayed the rollout to make more, shall we say, creepier changes, for when they decide they will make it happen again, and more likely due to the fact we could turn it off (that knowledge had to get out!). They more likely will make it locked down even more, or worse, they might already be planning on going after far more than CSAM, since it can be used to also weed out anyone who spreads Covid 'misinformation' or government dissent, or anyone who dares question anything popular.

But...that's just mere speculation on my part. They didn't go to the effort to code something that will get binned before it ever got released; This is Apple we're talking about, not Google.
 
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Any time someone is pushing a product or service "for the children," you can only be sure of one thing - it has nothing to do with "the children."

I doubt Timmy and his merry band of goblins even have a negative opinion of CSAM. They want to control your ability to express "bad" opinions.
 
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nickdalzell1 said:
My concern is that Apple has only delayed the rollout to make more, shall we say, creepier changes, for when they decide they will make it happen again, and more likely due to the fact we could turn it off (that knowledge had to get out!). They more likely will make it locked down even more, or worse, they might already be planning on going after far more than CSAM, since it can be used to also weed out anyone who spreads Covid 'misinformation' or government dissent, or anyone who dares question anything popular.
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It will be interesting to see if there are changes when it launches. I've thought it most likely that this scanning won't go away--that they will at some point launch it. Possibly with careful timing to minimize impact (e.g., not just when they are trying to sell some new hardware!). Possibly with some "changes" to make it seem "better." (Say, increasing the number of flagged images before human review--and then, of course, those changes could be rolled back once the technology has been in use a while.)

As I've probably said before many times by now, I'm definitely worried about the technology being used for other purposes as time goes by (such as, but not limited to, COVID "misinformation"--which has been a target of more than one company in Big Tech).
 
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nickdalzell1 said:
Oh, much like I'm quite talented in keeping old tech going, I also am talented in making the most of limited hardware, including smartphone cameras.
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I try to keep old tech going, too--and really admire people who likewise keep old tech going. This is one reason why I like Linux, I think--it can keep hardware viable longer.

As for cameras, I'm not a great photographer--but skill and care of the photographer is hugely important. I can easily imagine someone with skill and care taking a top flight photo with a simple camera that outclasses a sloppily used top end camera.
 
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Oh believe me, taking photos of Daisy was not easy! That one of her happy smile took like around a few dozen. Deer move a lot! In one attempt she licked the phone!

I always buy the 'for dummies' books to learn things I don't get from a quick-start guide as well. They've taught me more about the settings for any camera that I never knew about. Such as ISO settings, exposure value, timing, etc. I do miss when computers came with large manuals--heck! Even video games often came with a large manual, such as the one that came with Secret Weapons of the Luftwaffe in '92. Too bad our society had to get so dumbed down where most modern tech has nothing short of a quick-start guide. 'For Dummies' books are as close as we get to one of those dictionary-sized manuals today. I don't know why people just stopped wanting to learn how their PC worked.

It ain't the MP count, it's the settings, and knowing how to use them, and hoping you get a great subject who will hold still long enough. Most folks who bought the Galaxy S or HTC EVO 4G probably just accepted whatever 'auto mode' was and just thought 'omg this camera's a potato!'

Now, I wouldn't dare attempt vlogging or a video on such old hardware. That framerate...oh my goodness. I won't deny that we've definitelty come a long way. However I like old tech because I like old UI design, and don't like seeing our planet filled with more e-waste from unfettered consumerism. Let's just hope this CSAM mess coupled with the chip shortage, as well as phones not changing all that much since 2015 might help some with that in the end. Hey, gotta look at the bright side. I do kinda wish Daisy were around though during these times. Perhaps another deer might show up? They've been there when no one else has. I love walking in the forests a lot, and I do that often during warmer weather, and just wonder if another one might bless my presence.
 
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nickdalzell1 said:
Oh believe me, taking photos of Daisy was not easy! That one of her happy smile took like around a few dozen. Deer move a lot! In one attempt she licked the phone!
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I can imagine a deer might not be an easy subject to work with! But I think that photo was really worth it.

nickdalzell1 said:
Perhaps another deer might show up? They've been there when no one else has. I love walking in the forests a lot, and I do that often during warmer weather, and just wonder if another one might bless my presence.
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Is that how you met Daisy?
 
I was living at an RV park at the time, and Spring of 2009 a lot of things went wrong for me. My camper burned to the ground, and I lost pretty much everything except my car. Thankfully people really showed their good side and helped, and I eventually got a new camper, but many things were really not working out for me.

Summer of 2009 another camper parked their RV right beside mine, and she was very nice and I told her about my love of deer and how most folks look at me like I got two heads when saying I love deer, as around here many people think 'the only good deer is a dead deer'. I live in Kentucky. It's not good for deer sadly.

Well either way she thought 'well that's odd as I got three pet deer myself!' and I was astounded and asked if I could see them. One happened to be Daisy. Daisy was the oldest and the most friendly, while the other two were abuse cases. Zoey was 8 and had been shot right in the face and had some of her lower jaw missing, and she couldn't remember anything beyond a few seconds. Mariposa was orphaned when hunters killed her mom, so she was being cared for by Daisy and was extremely shy.

Mariposa:

26725_113826075316635_2229347_N_113826075316635.jpeg

Mariposa in 2011, 'button-nosing' my camera.
22470_100370763328833_5623659_N_100370763328833.jpeg

I was allowed to go see them whenever I wanted. I spent the most time with Daisy and we developed a real bond. Deer bond to those they love and it's extremely sweet. They groom you (lick you) and nuzzle you and want to spend their time with you all the time. I pretty much spent most days just talking to her; didn't matter if she understood a word but she did look at me with such interest. I think she understood.

It had to be more than coincidence that this happened though. I mean what are the chances you luck out and another RV'er parks next to you that has deer?

The deer park was another bit of divine intervention. My parents took me to Pigeon Forge, TN to spend a week in a cabin, and I just happened to be near the endcap in a restaurant where they had tons of TN brochures about places to visit, and one of them happened to be known as "Smoky Mountain Deer Farm & Exotic Petting Zoo". I was leery at first as to me "Petting zoos" are horrible places for animals and as a vegan I had my doubts. But on visit and asking questions the place was more like an animal sanctuary. Pretty much all the animals came from people who exploited them or were retirees from zoos, or would otherwise be sold to slaughter. Either way it ended up being paradise for a deer lover. You could walk into the enclosure where the Fallow Deer were and get a ton of kisses, nuzzles and love from them. Some are shy at first but warm up to you after a few minutes. Deer are adorable, extremely soft, and their breath smells like honeysuckle (they love to eat that!)

Either way I expect such 'coincidences' will become a hopeful part of my future. I met my girlfriend Lisa on Facebook, one of many friend requests I received when I posted Daisy's pictures.

Another Facebook friend had a deer, too. A buck named Jack. He would literally eat anything--including my Galaxy SIII. He took it in his mouth and I had to rescue it. Two weeks later, the OLED flickered green and normal, then went full-Hercules Monochrome, and blinked out. I remember Samsung bragging about using 'natural, organic materials' inside their phones to help themselves be eco-friendly, which went with their entire 'Nature UX' aesthetic of TouchWiz at the time. Apparently it was so organic that deer saliva could dissolve it.

Jack being silly (2013, taken with Galaxy SIII, thankful for external storage!):
jackthebuck.jpeg

He ate anything--literally. Thankfully deer don't have top front teeth!:
jackcute.jpeg
 
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nickdalzell1 said:
My concern is that Apple has only delayed the rollout to make more, shall we say, creepier changes, for when they decide they will make it happen again, and more likely due to the fact we could turn it off (that knowledge had to get out!). They more likely will make it locked down even more, or worse, they might already be planning on going after far more than CSAM, since it can be used to also weed out anyone who spreads Covid 'misinformation' or government dissent, or anyone who dares question anything popular.

But...that's just mere speculation on my part. They didn't go to the effort to code something that will get binned before it ever got released; This is Apple we're talking about, not Google.
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Agree. Now the cat is out of the bag, as it were, I see the current freeze as only a temporary respite. In fact, for some reason, I think it might be pushed essentially unchanged. What will change is that the great and the good, such as actors, influencers, and the like, will jump on a PR band wagon to promote the tech, to disparage all that disagree.
 
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Hmm. It seems possible that there is none at Apple corporate who understand the meaning of "irony"...

www.theguardian.com

Apple sues Israeli spyware firm NSO Group for surveillance of users

iPhone-maker also seeks to ban firm behind Pegasus spyware from using any Apple software, services or devices
www.theguardian.com www.theguardian.com

In light of Apple's efforts to scan our devices, this is akin to the pot calling the kettle black. Albeit not as extreme, but certainly in the same "ball park".
 
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