AR-15 rifle stolen from GOP congresswoman’s unlocked garage

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by rdowns, Oct 23, 2013.

  1. rdowns macrumors Penryn

    rdowns

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    #1
    I agree, we need to focus on the criminals. Also, irresponsible gun owners.


    http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2013/10/...tm_campaign=Feed:+TheRawStory+(The+Raw+Story)
     
  2. PracticalMac macrumors 68030

    PracticalMac

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  3. yg17 macrumors G5

    yg17

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    #4
    Another Responsible Gun Owner ;)
     
  4. TheHateMachine macrumors 6502a

    TheHateMachine

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    #5
    For whatever reason I was thinking you were meant the quote involving ARGO from the movie ARGO. ;)
     
  5. lostngone, Oct 23, 2013
    Last edited: Oct 23, 2013

    lostngone macrumors demi-god

    lostngone

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    #6
    I store my weapons in my house unloaded. Someone kicked in the door and took my guns and killed someone with one of them.
    Am I a responsible gun owner?

    I store my weapons in my house unloaded in a locked gun cabnet. Someone kicked in the door smashed the cabinet and took my guns and killed someone with one of them.
    Am I a responsible gun owner?

    I store my weapons in my house unloaded in a vault. Someone kicked in the door, drilled the safe and took my guns and killed someone with one of them.
    Am I a responsible gun owner?


    What happened to the responsibility of the criminal that decided to break into someones house, steal firearms, load one of them and shoot someone?!?!
     
  6. skottichan macrumors 6502a

    skottichan

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    #7
    No

    No

    Yes, but in the real world, drilling a safe is infinitely harder than it appears in movies. A real smash and grabber would tug a couple times on the door then move on to the pistol under your mattress/in your nightstand.

    Also, no one is taking away the responsibility of the criminal, but this is the reality of "criminals getting guns". They don't get them from dealers, they get them from lazy, and honestly, stupid legal gun owners. If it takes pressing charges on the gun owners who leave their weapons unsecured in a garage, to get them to actually secure their weapons responsibly, so be it.
     
  7. ChrisWB macrumors 6502

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    Chicago
    #8
    If someone takes on the responsibility of owning a dangerous item then they are responsible for securing that item.
     
  8. bradl macrumors 68040

    bradl

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    Jun 16, 2008
    #9
    THIS.

    It is the gun owner's responsibility to secure their guns, just like it is the home owner's responsibility to secure the belongings in their home to prevent theft.

    Yes, the criminal should be charged, but responsibility also lies on the part of the gun owner to secure their guns.

    I wonder what the excuse would be for this if this particular gun is used in a major shooting, in which more children and teachers die.

    BL.
     
  9. .Andy macrumors 68030

    .Andy

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    #10
    No. You have lost all objectivity when it comes to guns.
     
  10. vrDrew macrumors 65816

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    #11
    The criminal who steals guns and commits (further) crimes with them will face the appropriate penalties under the criminal justice system. It is both logically and legally possible for two persons to each bear individual responsibilities arising out of a single incident.

    The case in question is not one where the gun-owner had stored the weapon in what I (or indeed most reasonable people) would call a "secure" location.

    The garage was unlocked. And it is surely not unprecedented that an unlocked garage might be burglarized. And therefore a reasonable person could conclude that there was a strong possibility that anyone breaking into the garage would find and steal the firearm.

    Is the kid guilty of as bad a breach as someone who leaves a loaded handgun within reach of a child? Obviously not.

    But this sort of incident simply illustrates why the NRA's "no restrictions on gun ownership - ever" policy is ultimately self-defeating.

    If the NRA's position that the 2nd Amendment means that no law or regulation regarding the ownership of firearms is possible - then ultimately the only answer is going to be a repeal of the 2nd Amendment. And I don't think that is what they really want.

    Far better, in the long run, that the NRA and responsible gun owners recognize that its better to compromise on reasonable restrictions.

    So, in conduct of war, there are no fixed situations and condition, just like water has no constant shape and configuration.

    Sun-Tzu
     
  11. Mac'nCheese macrumors 68030

    Mac'nCheese

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    #12
    Whoever said that the criminal in this case was not responsible for these actions? When did a criminal who stole a gun ever get off by saying well I stole it, blame the guy who didn't lock it up? Why can't both parties have some resonsibilty?
     
  12. lostngone, Oct 23, 2013
    Last edited: Oct 23, 2013

    lostngone macrumors demi-god

    lostngone

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    #13

    Do you lock up your car in a vault at night? How about rakes, shovels and kitchen knives?

    If someone takes a shovel from your yard or shed and beats someone to death with it should you be charged?

    How about if someone steals your car and runs over a few kids? Should you be charged because you didn't arm your car alarm and attach the club to your steering wheel AND boot your car that night?
     
  13. thekev macrumors 604

    thekev

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    #14
    The point is actually somewhat valid with kitchen knives. It's important to store them outside of the reach of children. It pisses me off when I see adults who still don't know how to safely carry one. Assuming all of your prior statements are genuine, I don't think you would find it reasonable to leave an AR-15 unattended. These are dangerous items, and it's important to take precautions. Somewhere between a golf club and a tank, the owner needs to be part of the solution rather than a passive bystander. It's not a lot to ask in terms of responsibility.
     
  14. JohnLT13 macrumors 6502a

    JohnLT13

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    #15
    Didn't know there was a issue with shovel killings.
    Cant remember the last time I read about a store being robbed with a shovel. And as far as I know people don't need a license to own shovels. Your point is a bit of a stretch don't you think?
     
  15. PracticalMac macrumors 68030

    PracticalMac

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    #16
    Oh!

    Recently saw "Argo", you know, the movie? :)
     
  16. Zombie Acorn macrumors 65816

    Zombie Acorn

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    #17
    Go to a rural area in Kansas, nearly every truck you see is going to be unlocked and have a gun in the back. Hasn't been a problem there.

    If there are no minors around, I don't see a problem with leaving a gun in your garage.
     
  17. MacNut macrumors Core

    MacNut

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    #18
    Because in Kansas you can't go 5 feet without seeing a gun of some sort. And what is there really to rob there anyways.:p
     
  18. bradl, Oct 23, 2013
    Last edited: Oct 23, 2013

    bradl macrumors 68040

    bradl

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    #19
    I lived in rural Kansas. Never saw what you are claiming. But then again, the rural Kansas you are talking about probably isn't the rural Kansas I lived in. Was yours the gateway to Oz?

    My car is locked in my garage, keys out of the ignition. My garage door is locked.

    My shed is padlocked. The key to that lock is in a keysafe. That is combination locked. only 4 people know that combination. Two live at my house. the third lives 600 miles away. The fourth lives 1500 miles away.

    Again, they have to break into my house to get the keys to my car to do such a thing. Again, responsibility starts well prior to an event happening. Like you keep grandstanding on with being a responsible gun owner, you also should and need to be a responsible homeowner and keep your belongings secure so they don't get used in any tragic situation.

    In short, your logic here fails, because for me, actions are already taken and ensure that I am responsible with my things. In the situation of the congresswoman, it is clear that she wasn't. That puts her under scrutiny.

    Just like the 12 year old in the Sparks shooting situation; it was uncovered that he brought his weapon from home, and wasn't properly stored; charges may be brought against the parents for not securing their weapon; it was their responsibility to do so.

    Responsibility: Something you must have to enjoy your 2nd Amendment "Right".

    BL.
     
  19. ChrisWB macrumors 6502

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2004
    Location:
    Chicago
    #20
    Owners need to take personal responsibility.

    Your tools should be locked in your garage or a storage area. Your car should be locked, at the very least, and there should be no dangerous items left inside the car.

    Personal responsibility.
     
  20. Vanilla Ice macrumors 6502

    Vanilla Ice

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    #21
    She should have known better. Stupid Republican. Plus there are better alternatives than an using an AR-15. Just ask Joe!

    “You don’t need an AR-15. It’s harder to aim, it’s harder to use, and in fact, you don’t need 30 rounds to protect yourself. Buy a shotgun. Buy a shotgun.”

    “Just fire the shotgun through the door.”

    “Well, you know, my shotgun will do better for you than your AR-15, because you want to keep someone away from your house, just fire the shotgun through the door.”

    -Joe Biden <3

    :p
     
  21. Eraserhead macrumors G4

    Eraserhead

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    Location:
    UK
    #22
    My insurance is invalid if I don't lock my car or my house - so I do have to make some effort to prevent theft/robbery.

    ----------

    Guns are dangerous enough that you should keep them specifically locked away IMO (so option #2) But in all cases you'd be better than the congresswoman who hadn't even locked her garage.
     
  22. lostngone, Oct 24, 2013
    Last edited: Oct 24, 2013

    lostngone macrumors demi-god

    lostngone

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    Anchorage
    #23
    In my three examples the weapons were stored safely and behind one or more locks. The exact same way your car and tools are.

    However for some people in this forum that isn't good enough.

    You have people that want to crucify the legal gun owner if a firearms is stolen and used in a crime but how many people went to jail or even got fired when we found out the U.S. Government was knowingly allowing the illegal sale of firearms to the Mexican drug cartels. It can be verified that at least 2 of these weapons were used to kill 2 law enforcement officers and it is very likely that many of the other firearms were used in other crimes.

    I also find it funny that people that want to ban all(or most) firearms because they claim they are dangerous killing machines and have no place in society will freely admit if they are being robbed, raped or attacked that they would call the police who carry the same guns(in most places) they want banned for help.
     
  23. Vanilla Ice macrumors 6502

    Vanilla Ice

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    Los Angeles
    #24
    Who are you talking about? These two? If so, that’s why you will NEVER hear any talk about, Fast and Furious case in this forum. ;)
     

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  24. yg17 macrumors G5

    yg17

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    St. Louis, MO
    #25

    Yup, I saw it. Great movie. I'm guessing you thought I was saying "Argo **** yourself"? :p

    (before anyone reports this post, that's the catch phrase from the movie)
     

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