Arafat is dead

stubeeef

macrumors 68030
Original poster
Aug 10, 2004
2,702
2
Personnaly I think he was not a good man. Killed many, took a lot of money, never built a school (so I hear).

I am hopeful a moderate will emerge and peace will come.
 

jemeinc

macrumors 6502a
Feb 14, 2004
771
0
South Jersey
Yeah, this has potential disaster written all over it... Regardless of anyone's opinions, I think we can all agree that an already unstable situation just got a little more volatile... I'm hoping for the best, but fearing the worst- I hate to say...
 

Mechcozmo

macrumors 603
Jul 17, 2004
5,215
2
stubeeef said:
Personnaly I think he was not a good man. Killed many, took a lot of money, never built a school (so I hear).

I am hopeful a moderate will emerge and peace will come.
I agree. Glad that he is dead, only because the people under him are far more likely to want peace than he did. I really hope that peace comes out of this...
 

MacNut

macrumors Core
Jan 4, 2002
21,550
7,802
CT
The problem is that those people have never had anyone else lead besides Arafat so it will be interesting to see how they react to a new leader.
 

Edot

macrumors 6502
Jan 29, 2002
432
0
NJ
MacNut said:
The problem is that those people have never had anyone else lead besides Arafat so it will be interesting to see how they react to a new leader.
This conflict has been going on for hundreds of years. I don't know why this would change anything. Not that I don't want it too, but looking at history makes it easy to predict the outcome.
 

AmigoMac

macrumors 68020
Aug 5, 2003
2,064
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l'Allemagne
I personally don't know how *good* or *bad* man he was, you know, some news reporters have more tolerance than others... I just hope that it doesn't give a bad outcome to the conflict with israel. as posted above, I don't see a reason why this should change the situation dramatically, but you never know and the hope for the peace in this region is high.
 

JFreak

macrumors 68040
Jul 11, 2003
3,145
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Tampere, Finland
as a side note, i found it strange that he never blank his eye when he was interviewed - it was so spooky, the man could talk for minutes and not blink even once.
 

mouchoir

macrumors 6502a
Apr 29, 2004
654
0
London, UK
Mechcozmo said:
I agree. Glad that he is dead, only because the people under him are far more likely to want peace than he did. I really hope that peace comes out of this...
erm... didn't he win the Nobel Peace Prize?
 

BornAgainMac

macrumors 603
Feb 4, 2004
6,353
3,215
Florida Resident
I was surprised he didn't have a bomb when he died. :rolleyes:

As far as the conflict, if one side was bending over backwards to have peace the other side was still causing problems then I am sure the rest of the world would pick the side that is doing the right thing and help out. This issue of peace would be complete. I feel the pain for both sides of the conflict.

As far as Arafat being dead, I am glad he didn't die from an attack but of natural causes.
 

MacDawg

macrumors Core
Mar 20, 2004
19,708
4,274
"Between the Hedges"
mouchoir said:
erm... didn't he win the Nobel Peace Prize?
There was a lot of controversy surrounding that Nobel Peace Prize.

Link here

Why did Yasser Arafat get the Nobel Peace Prize?

At a ceremony in Oslo, Norway on December 10, 1994 Yasser Arafat, master terrorist, was awarded the Nobel Peace Prize. The prize was awarded jointly to Arafat, Israel's Prime Minister Yitzhak Rabin and Foreign Minister Shimon Peres "for their efforts to create peace in the Middle East." The three were granted the prestigious prize, prematurely as it turned out, for their roles in the historic Oslo Accords signed the previous year and their committment to the Peace Process envisioned by the Accords. After generations of warfare and terrorism, it seemed peace was at hand.

The decision to award Arafat the coveted Nobel Prize was based on the belief that he had renounced acts of terror and had become a sincere participant in a true peace process. The Oslo Accords and successor agreements in the Peace Process bound Arafat and his people to recognize Israel's right to exist, to guarantee Israel's safety and security within defensible borders, and to work by a peaceful series of negotiations toward resolution of remaining problems. Nonetheless, Nobel committee member Kaare Kristiansen quit rather than be party to a prize that included Palestinian leader Yasser Arafat.

But this was all a fiction. Even in 1993 and 1994, with the ink fresh on the peace agreement papers, there was a high rate of terrorism against Israel; seventy-three Israeli soldiers and civilians were killed and more than 100 wounded in 1994, up slightly from 1993. In a preview of the pattern that still persists today, Israeli officials urged the Palestinian Authority to take tougher measures against terrorists and the PA claimed to be doing so even while the terrorism went on and on.

During the 1990's it became abundantly clear that Yasser Arafat was less than fully committed to the peace process, which ultimately failed at Camp David and resulted in the bloodshed of the al-Aqsa intifada starting in September 2000. Groups have come forward demanding that the Peace Prize be revoked, based on Arafat's bad faith, but revocation is unlikely.
 

arf

macrumors member
Mar 2, 2004
55
0
UK
No, what he wanted was what is rightfully that of the Palestinian people; land with borders that were set out by the UN and Israel seems to feel that it can violate whilst the world looks on.

Here is some good reading for all you people who belive that Israel has the moral high ground in this very sorry affair.



Mechcozmo said:
I agree. Glad that he is dead, only because the people under him are far more likely to want peace than he did. I really hope that peace comes out of this...
 

sgarringer

macrumors regular
Jul 15, 2004
210
0
Cedar Rapids, IA
arf said:
No, what he wanted was what is rightfully that of the Palestinian people; land with borders that were set out by the UN and Israel seems to feel that it can violate whilst the world looks on.

Here is some good reading for all you people who belive that Israel has the moral high ground in this very sorry affair.
It is only because of the bias of the American media and the United States government that Isreal is portrayed as being the "good guys". It should be noted that the Palestinians were promised their own country at the end of WW II, only to have the land they resided on totally given to Isreal. Palistine is the ones that are simply trying to get their land back, and they dont have the backing of the world to do so. So of course they need to use rebel methods.
 

rosalindavenue

macrumors 6502a
Dec 13, 2003
837
213
Virginia, USA
AmigoMac said:
I personally don't know how *good* or *bad* man he was, you know, some news reporters have more tolerance than others... I just hope that it doesn't give a bad outcome to the conflict with israel. as posted above, I don't see a reason why this should change the situation dramatically, but you never know and the hope for the peace in this region is high.
Uhh, Arafat isn't a good candidate for debating if someone is *good* or *bad.* Read the link below for an account of the murder he ordered of the 1972 Israeli Olympic Team. Not to mention the thousands of civilians he's killed, and his evangelism for terror that has been so inspirational to Osama, et al. That comes down as *bad*, even if you are a moral relativist.

http://www.palestinefacts.org/pf_1967to1991_munich.php
 

1macker1

macrumors 65816
Oct 9, 2003
1,375
0
A Higher Level
The American media make Arafat looks like the bad guy, while making Israel look like the good guy. Both sides has been wrong, and Sharon *sp* has done his fair share of killing also, he still is. All I wonder is why the US is turning the blind eye to the nukes that Israel has.
 

jemeinc

macrumors 6502a
Feb 14, 2004
771
0
South Jersey
Yeah, it's Americas fault Arafat chose terrorism- riiiiiiight... lol... The world is better without Arafat... Hopefully, the Palestinians will be the ones to benefit from this, but it's pretty clear he hasn't lead them well in life, & news is surfacing he hasn't set them up well for life after him either... Great leader...Oh well, one mans terrorist is another mans freedom fighter I suppose... To each his own, back to talking about the good things, like everything Apple...:)
 

Sol

macrumors 68000
Jan 14, 2003
1,564
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Australia
Non-Blinkers

JFreak said:
as a side note, i found it strange that he never blank his eye when he was interviewed - it was so spooky, the man could talk for minutes and not blink even once.
Neither does Steve Forbes. I guess the world of politics really opened their eyes.
 

arf

macrumors member
Mar 2, 2004
55
0
UK
Thanks for making my point for me. 'One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter'. This is true, as is the fact that you believe Arafat to be a terrorist, which is due to the biased view that American people and their administration have of the situation.

As for the number of civillians killed my Arafat, this pales into comparison to the numbers killed by Israeli forces using weapons paid for by AMERICAN money. Hang your head in shame America


jemeinc said:
Yeah, it's Americas fault Arafat chose terrorism- riiiiiiight... lol... The world is better without Arafat... Hopefully, the Palestinians will be the ones to benefit from this, but it's pretty clear he hasn't lead them well in life, & news is surfacing he hasn't set them up well for life after him either... Great leader...Oh well, one mans terrorist is another mans freedom fighter I suppose... To each his own, back to talking about the good things, like everything Apple...:)
 

AmigoMac

macrumors 68020
Aug 5, 2003
2,064
0
l'Allemagne
rosalindavenue said:
Uhh, Arafat isn't a good candidate for debating if someone is *good* or *bad.* Read the link below for an account of the murder he ordered of the 1972 Israeli Olympic Team. Not to mention the thousands of civilians he's killed, and his evangelism for terror that has been so inspirational to Osama, et al. That comes down as *bad*, even if you are a moral relativist.

http://www.palestinefacts.org/pf_1967to1991_munich.php
That's what I meant, I have no Fu***ng idea / probe of what he did or what he didn't, some people -media- have been tolerant about the situation there, I just wanted to say : I don't care if he is dead or not.
 

lalcan

macrumors regular
Sep 8, 2003
147
0
Left of the center
Requiescat in pace

Without insider information (which we all don't have) we won't be able to know if he was a terrorist or a hero (though i am more willing to believe him to be a nice person fighting the right fight).

But, as for the Nobel prize, didn't they gave the Peace Nobel prize to that very well known world terrorist, innocent killer, modern Machiavelli, Henry Kissinger? lost any credibility since then, if you ask me.

Take a look at this:

http://www.peacelink.it/tematiche/latina/nobel/index.php3
 

Foxer

macrumors 65816
Feb 22, 2003
1,250
21
Washington, DC
sgarringer said:
It should be noted that the Palestinians were promised their own country at the end of WW II, only to have the land they resided on totally given to Isreal. Palistine is the ones that are simply trying to get their land back, and they dont have the backing of the world to do so.
And they were given a country. What we call the West Bank and Gaza were set aside for the Palastinians. These areas were immediately occupied by Jordan and Egypt, respectively, when they invaded Israel at its inception. After this, they were simply incorporated into these countries. It was 20 years later before those territories were conquered by Israel.

I keep wanting to beleive that the reports of renewed anti-semitism in Europe are overblown, but based on what is being said here - and the locales of those who are saying it - I may have been wrong. I guess the expiration date on guilt for genocide is about 50-60 years.

Also, where has the capacity of some people (mainly Europeans, but many Americans as well) to make a value judgment gone? If we can't agree that Arafat was a very bad man, then who was? Will we re-evaluate Hitler and Stalin next? You can say that Arafat was an awful person without commenting on the validity of the Palestinian cause as a whole. I personally support the idea of a Palestinian state, but they've got to get their act together or it will just be another failed Arab kleptocracy. I lived in the Middle East and worked with many Palestinians. They're good people, but they need to rid themselves of this leadership clique bent on throwing rocks and suicide bombings or they will get nowhere.

This is why the Palestian leadership are terrorists and the Israelis are not. Follow closely people. Palestinians target Israeli civilians in civilian areas and use civilians to carry out these attacks. Their leaders hide themselves among the populace, forcing Isreali responses to endanger and, regrettably all too often, kill Palestinian civilians. In short, Palestinians could (if they wished) simply target Israeli military and governemnt targets, but they decided against that. They then put the Israelis in a position of not responding or repsonding in a way that will likely kill civilians. Those are cheap, terrorist, tactics. As bad as human shields and hiding out in mosques.

And don't start on the Peace Prize thing. It counts for nothing. It's almost as meaningless as being honored by the United Nations.
 

lalcan

macrumors regular
Sep 8, 2003
147
0
Left of the center
Foxer:

You have such a one-sided version of the history...

So if Jordan and Egypt invade Israel, it gives Israel the Godsend right to do the same to Palestine?

How many generations of germans do you want to hold the stain of the WWII? forever? perhaps a couple of weeks after final judgement? Then, shouldn't USA hold the stain of being the only ones ever to drop a nuke over a city, not military targets, mind you? TV set hasn't told you that, i guess.

You shouldn't judge anyone, you are not here to do it, this guy is dead, he has already been judged by, let him rest in peace, this whole "I'm the good guy and will teach the world the way things are supposed to be" thing won't get you anywhere.

BTW is that Groucho Marx in your avatar?
 

wdlove

macrumors P6
Oct 20, 2002
16,570
0
My prayers go out to his family and friends. May he rest in peace. Sad that he was unable to realize of dream of peace and a Palestinian State. May his death bring on a real push to a fruitful peace.