Are Replublicans really Conservative?

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by PracticalMac, Jul 26, 2012.

  1. PracticalMac macrumors 68030

    PracticalMac

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    #1
    There was a debate between candidates in Texas.

    One of them was ready to spend 7 BILLION $$$ on a fence the along the entire Texas/Mexico boarder (it was an estimated cost, so basically he wanted to spend whatever it took),
    and seize private lands using imminent domain to do it.

    Other candidate wanted a more pragmatic approach to securing boarder, building fence where needed, other methods were best.


    The F-35 strike fighter program is experiencing massive cost overruns, practically doubling the cost per aircraft.
    This time both of them are willing pay whatever the contractor wants for the aircraft.
    (I am not opposed to the F-35 itself, just the runaway cost overruns, but also considering that our greatest threat comes from countries and forces that don't have an air force to speak of).


    If this is not a double-standard, please explain why.
    Link web sites that back comments up also.


    Thanks
     
  2. kavika411 macrumors 6502a

    kavika411

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    #2
    Which definition of "conservative" do you want us to use for your thread?
     
  3. MadeTheSwitch macrumors 6502a

    MadeTheSwitch

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    #3
    Some yes, some no. Depends on the person. Some will spend like drunken sailors. By the same token, not all Democrats want to give away the store either and some are quite frugal and fiscally conservative.

    People like to frame this issue as all GOP = conservative and all Dems spend money like crazy, but the truth of the matter is much more complex.
     
  4. PracticalMac thread starter macrumors 68030

    PracticalMac

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    #4
    What others are there?
    My thought is "conserve money", by the way many of them talk.
    I don't think it means "conserve resources" in this case.

    Here in Texas, if a Republican does not have the word "Conservative" in advertising, he is a "Democrook"
     
  5. KingYaba macrumors 68040

    KingYaba

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    #5
    Certainly not the case when it comes to military spending. For some reason it seems more military spending equates to more freedom. Wanting to spend several billion dollars on a fence isn't a great use of money. People illegally immigrate here for work so use that money to enforce the law instead. Businesses hire illegal immigrants so we need to come up with ideas on how to stop it. Can't stop all of it but we can make progress. I don't know, but a fence won't keep people out. People dig tunnels, buy boats to go around, come in on travel VISAs and never leave...
     
  6. thewitt macrumors 68020

    thewitt

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    #6
    Conservatives are not opposed to spending money, they are however opposed to simply giving people money to do nothing.

    There are of course liberal Republicans as well as conservative Democrats.

    Unlike the Democrat party, the Republican party truly is an open tent where all opinions and beliefs at welcome. Once upon a time the Democrat party was also this way, however the move toward Socialism has taken precedence and driven out the alternative opinion.

    Did you know JFK was a fiscal conservative? He would not be allowed in the Party today... He was also a hard liner on defense, clearly ready to strike first in Cuba - likely the reason he was eliminated.
     
  7. thewitt macrumors 68020

    thewitt

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    #7
    As for the border fence, i'm all for it. That plus armed guards with orders to shoot first and throw the bodies back over the fence.

    It's long past time the US took border security seriously.

    It's easier to get into the US illegally than into Malaysia...
     
  8. bradl macrumors 68040

    bradl

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    #8
    And it's this that brings us to not only the crux of the matter, but why there is so much animosity within our country, and directed at us from outside our country.

    If we lived by "Shoot first, ask questions later", we'd be in anarchy by now, and then some. It should also serve to remind you that everyone in this country is an illegal immigrant, going back to the 1600s. The Indians that greeted the Mayflower could have shot first and asked questions later, and none of us would be here to this day (well, some of us.. *cough*American Indian*wheeze*).

    It's funny.. posts like this cry out saying "It's my land! Get out!" are crawling out of the woodwork, when their ancestors' shoes were on the other foot coming into here (whether legally or illegally). So much hypocrisy.

    BL.
     
  9. Queso macrumors G4

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    #9
    Oh that great American obsession with guns again. I blame John Wayne. :rolleyes:
     
  10. Jackintosh macrumors 6502a

    Jackintosh

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    #10
    You're such a decent human being. Jesus would love what you say here.
     
  11. classicaliberal macrumors regular

    classicaliberal

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    #11
    Hypocrisy in both political parties knows no bounds.

    Republicans talk a good game regarding fiscal conservatism, but just look at the George W. Bush administration. Between the massive increase in defense spending, NCLB, prescription drug program, etc. he was anything but 'conservative.'

    I'd also make the case that it's not a 'conservative position' to be against gay marriage, since the country was founded on ideas of less government and more liberty... and legislation which controls who can do what and who can't... is distinctly anti-liberty.

    Our definitions of these terms change over time however... It makes it nearly impossible to answer such questions.
     
  12. Desertrat macrumors newbie

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    #12
    FWIW, I see myself as a small-c conservative; on many issues, more of a small-l libertarian. I never saw Dubya as truly conservative.

    I've tried to simplify the whole argument by dividing folks as either Statist or anti-Statist. Even that's not totally either-or. But there are those who look to government as the primary source of societal efforts, and those who want more private-sector effort and less from government.

    As a generality, Statists apparently believe that government not only should but can solve social problems. So far, so bad, insofar as results. The efforts at solutions now have us insolvent but for the printing press.

    My problem with the government deal is that history shows that things go too far. I supported having an EPA, as well as the ESA. But they've gone way far past original intent. "Quit preachin' and gone to meddlin'."
     
  13. mcrain macrumors 68000

    mcrain

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    #13
    I don't know any Republicans in office or running for office who subscribe to conservative principals. They are neo-cons or merely right-wing social wingnuts whose only guiding principal is power and control.

    I wish I were wrong. I'm a fiscal conservative. Social libertarian. That's why I vote for Democrats despite all their failings.
     
  14. MorphingDragon macrumors 603

    MorphingDragon

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    #14
    I want what youre smoking.
     
  15. Desertrat macrumors newbie

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    #15
    I guess what bugs me about the efforts to define is my view is that there is a great difference between local Dem/Rep folks and those of national stature. IMO, the national power-structure people are not at all representative of the public at large, regardless of party affiliation.

    As just one example, the present administration is not just continuing but has enlarged on the silliness of the Bush stimulus spending. It's happily in bed with the desires of the investment bankers. QE doesn't create jobs, but it damned sure makes for million-dollar bonuses at Goldman Sachs. That deal is neither liberal nor conservative, and Dem or Rep is affiliation is irrelevant.
     
  16. samiwas macrumors 65816

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    #16
    can't type...laughing too hard.

    Bwwaaaahahahahaa. I already had my thoughts that you were not for real...now I'm sure of it.
     
  17. macquariumguy macrumors 6502a

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    #17
    That's the exact opposite of my impression of the Republican party these days.
     
  18. PracticalMac thread starter macrumors 68030

    PracticalMac

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    #18
    That is an excellent way to simplify (relativly speaking) the sides, Statists vs Non-Statists, although it does bring shades of what lead to the US Civil War.

    And of course the departments have grown well beyond their intent, I am sure everyone knows that.

    If so, why so much opposition to LGBT groups and Pro-Choice crowd?
    They are also adamant about referring Christian quotes when the US is the most religiously diverse country in the world (I think), a number of which worship many gods, some none.
    (also even withing the Christian sphere there is derision, but leave that for another topic)

    Totally agree, the Republican is "Liberty", yet seem to impose, nay, FORCE rules on everyone. As mentioned in OP, a candidate willing to impose Imminent Domain willy nilly to achieve a dubious goal that ironically the US officially decried when other nations did (Berlin Wall, Israeli Wall).
     
  19. MadeTheSwitch macrumors 6502a

    MadeTheSwitch

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    #19
    ROTF...yeah right. Set down the crack pipe for a minute...I have a bridge to sell you. If that were really true and if their tend was really wide open, they would welcome gays into it. Not go out of their way to pass laws against them at every turn, to the point of enshrining it in their official party platform even.
     
  20. NickZac macrumors 68000

    NickZac

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    #20
    Libertarians are conservative. Republicans are conservative when morality works in favor, and will spend as much money as need be when not. Conservative means less government, but not less civil rights, and certainly not military utilization at the levels we have seen. There is only one conservative running and that is Gary Johnson.
     
  21. quasinormal macrumors 6502a

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    #21
    I'm not sure we should be picking on any one group in humanity for hypocrisy.

    I've met plenty of self styled hippies over the years who where just as rigid in their thinking, exclusionary and power hungry as any redneck. Ditto for many self described socially aware liberals.

    I'd be even more hypocritical if I were suggest i was any better, as any anybody who knows me and my weaknesses will testify.
     
  22. hulugu macrumors 68000

    hulugu

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    #22
    Unless you're Muslim, then you might be investigated for connection to the Muslim Brotherhood. Or, Gay in which case you might lose your position with the Romney campaign.

    And, I'm sure there are open arms for those who have good things to say about the Social Democracies of Europe or think that the 2nd Amendment has been misinterpreted.

    Are you really trying to say that Kennedy was killed by Democrats? Or, is this just a little innuendo to finish your grammatically incorrect post?


    Cuddling up to Wall Street is an increasingly bipartisan act.
     
  23. NickZac macrumors 68000

    NickZac

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    #23
    The Bush administration approved for the US Armed Forces to purchase a few hundred million dollars of Cipro, a brand name antibiotic used to treat anthrax exposure. However, a generic antibiotic called doxycycline has been used to treat anthrax for years at less than 1/100th the cost. Neither of the two drugs show higher efficiency and in fact Cipro has a nastier side effect profile. In fact, it was so nasty it is currently being considered to be pulled from the market. Yet Cipro is the only drug the FDA gave approval for anthrax treatment. This makes no sense! And should I mention that the Bush family has a longstanding relationship with a few major pharmaceutical companies?
     
  24. guzhogi macrumors 68030

    guzhogi

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    #24
    I agree. I've seen T-Shirts that said "Homeland Security: Fighting terrorism since 1492" with a picture of American Indians on it. Kind of hypocritical of white people to complain about illegal immigration.

    I'd say I'm the kind of person where if you can act responsibly, more power to you. If you can't, hello, Big Brother. So many people are so concerned about cutting costs & maximizing profits, they don't want to pay for basic maintenance. And when some disaster happens, like the BP oil spill or whatever, they're like "Oh, it's not our fault! Someone else should fix this!" Plus, in the BP oil spill case, they don't care about the threat to wildlife, all they care about is how much $$$ they're losing on it.
     
  25. Sydde macrumors 68020

    Sydde

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    #25
    Watch out! It's a trap! Soylent Blue is ...
     

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