Are Republicans turning into the It Takes a Village party?

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by Rogifan, Jul 16, 2019.

  1. Rogifan macrumors Core

    Rogifan

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    #1
    Vance referenced someone whom he called “a very popular libertarian author,” but declined to name any names. The author, he said, talks a lot about isolation; the decline of community, family, and marriage; addiction to social media; and the skyrocketing rates of youth suicide.

    “If you think those things are problems,” Vance said, “if you think children killing themselves are problems, if you think people not having families, not being married, feeling more isolated are problems, then you need to be willing to use political power when it’s appropriate to solve those problems.”

    “If people are spending too much time addicted to devices that are designed to addict them, we can’t just blame consumer choice,” he added. “We have to blame ourselves for not doing something to stop it. If people are killing themselves because they’re being bullied in online chatrooms, we can’t just say parents need to exercise more responsibility.”

    “We live in environment and in a culture that is shaped by our laws and public policy, and we can’t hide from that fact anymore,” Vance concluded. “The question conservatives confront at this key moment is this: Whom do we serve? Do we serve pure, unfettered commercial freedom? Do we serve commerce at the expense of the public good? Or do we serve something higher, and are we willing to use political power to actually accomplish those things?”

    https://www.nationalreview.com/corner/jd-vance-american-dream-is-undoubtedly-in-decline/

    As a conservative it makes me nervous to see more and more Republicans thinking this way. They want just as much big government as Democrats but they want to use it in a way to push their cultural preferences or what they deem is the greater good. Yet more often than not they don’t actually explain how they would accomplish this. Do they want the government mandating Hollywood produce certain types of movies that encourage marriage and having children? Do they think government should mandate tech companies do certain things to try and reduce screen time or online bullying? What’s their solution?
     
  2. DearthnVader, Jul 17, 2019
    Last edited: Jul 17, 2019

    DearthnVader macrumors 6502a

    DearthnVader

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    #2
    It is inherent upon the government to try to address the problems people face.

    The tendency of the two party system to lead to binary choice, good vs. evil, has pushed us further from fixing anything. (D) says this, and we all know they are evil, there for any (R) that also say this, must be evil too. (R) says that, and we all know they are evil, there for any (D) that also say that must be evil too.

    It's really good for putting people and ideas into a camp, in order to win elections so (D) or (R) can steer federal money to their cronies, but it's bad for the common good.

    It's difficult to identify what the common good even is, largely due to the mass media buy-in and sale of the politics of division, aimed largely at dividing us from our money.

    If people are dying, or being mistreated, that's bad, address it as best you can, and remember that those that come after you can build upon your successes and failures.

    We live in a material world, and money buys all the things we need to survive and prosper. Building the wealth of the most people, and lifting people out of poverty is the primary function of good governance. I think people would be surprised how fast other problems would fix themselves if government limited itself to these two ends.
     
  3. yaxomoxay macrumors 68040

    yaxomoxay

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    #3
    Perfectly stated.
     
  4. PracticalMac macrumors 68030

    PracticalMac

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    #4
    Both sides do this.
    By different means, equal amounts of money is taken.
     
  5. DearthnVader macrumors 6502a

    DearthnVader

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    #5
    This is true, when you have a two party system, the truth is the first victim.

    I only wish I knew what the answer is, certainly a lot more love for our fellow man, and a lot less assigning evil to good intent.

    In the end of the day, the problem lies with all of us, if we didn't buy into demonizing people with views and opinions foreign to our own, it wouldn't be an effective way to get elected.
     
  6. yaxomoxay macrumors 68040

    yaxomoxay

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    #6
    The problem - and here I quote my beloved Kissinger - is that when you govern not everything that is ideal is doable, and not everything that is doable is ideal.
    The two party system in which both parties disagree is something we want. The LAST thing we need is one formalized line of thought. Sometimes even gridlock is good (as Judge Scalia explained once, see youtube for the video in which he explains it). Our structure is designed to see what we see.
    Now, that doesn't mean that I agree with the foolishness of some of the things we see. I believe that there are some problems that with some of the issues that can be resolved or at least made better ( = immigration ) but no party wants to due to political reasons (= elections) as negativity is often what sells in politics.
     
  7. DearthnVader macrumors 6502a

    DearthnVader

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    #7
    I feel as if our democracy is a lot less effective at solving issues as maybe it was when there was more consensus and willingness to reach across party line to get things done.

    I feel our great experiment in self government is in peril, but I still believe that the truth will always self correct.
     
  8. PracticalMac macrumors 68030

    PracticalMac

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    #8
    and (from another thread about show girls) sex.
    --- Post Merged, Jul 17, 2019 ---
    The peril is not so much in our governance, but in our inability to be open to ideas.
    And it is not just in America.

    https://www.ted.com/talks/carole_ca...he_threat_to_democracy/transcript?language=en
     
  9. DearthnVader macrumors 6502a

    DearthnVader

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    #9
    Welcome to the age of alternative facts.

    Sadly people like to feel affirmed in their own opinions, national/world views, and we have a hard time listening to people and news that challenge our own assertions.

    Simply put, we've fallen in love with the sound of our own voice.

    Compounded by the fact that forces both outside and inside are bending the truth to fit a myriad of conflicting interests that normally only serve to make the rich richer and the already potent more powerful.
     
  10. Huntn macrumors demi-god

    Huntn

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    #10
    In my view we have two choices:
    • Big government supported by the most of the people whose mandate is to ensure a prosperous, stable, level playing field society.
    • Big corporatocracy which gives a damn about one thing, self enrichment, who don’t care about a stable society until it somehow adversely effects them. They are not organized in any meaningful way, if brick and mortar retail locations are falling down, their concern only goes as far as adapting to the new reality, not fixing anything that concerns average citizens.
    • I don’t consider anarchy a viable choice.
     
  11. jkcerda macrumors 6502a

    jkcerda

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    #11
    We have too many democrats & republicans & not enough Americans :(
     
  12. DearthnVader macrumors 6502a

    DearthnVader

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    #12
    Fascism is capitalism in decay, but the solution is not the failed ideals of socialism to communism.

    Free markets, free societies, and a basic respect for individual rights and private property, and a functioning judiciary that can and will work as a check on the powers of the executive and legislative branches.

    Then we come to the issue of the 5th of State, and it's only resent need to put profits ahead of facts.
     
  13. Huntn macrumors demi-god

    Huntn

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    #13
    I think you maybe overselling free markets and society. How much freedom do you support, tycoon freedom, unlimited profits, non-existent regulations, taxation? Is the concept of social justice included in your view? How free can we be to maintain a safe, prosperous, stable society that exists in a healthy environment? How do you feel about billionaires?
     
  14. DearthnVader macrumors 6502a

    DearthnVader

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    #14
    I love billionaire as much as I love poor people, I just wish we had more billionaires than poor people.

    Growing pains, largely we haven't come that far from feudalism and we are trending toward neo-feudalism.

    It's a difficult balancing act, the needs of the few vs the needs of the many. Individual rights vs societies needs for stability and safety. However those that will trade essential liberty for temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety.
     
  15. Huntn macrumors demi-god

    Huntn

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    #15
    I agree we need balance, but I view a system that allows billionaires, is fundamentally unjust and that they should be admired a flaw. Admire smart people for the good they do, not greed, not the wealth they horde. Greed, gluttony, used to be viewed as flaws, even sins.
     
  16. JagdTiger macrumors 6502

    JagdTiger

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    #16
    It takes a village or console to destroy a country’s sovereignty.
    --- Post Merged, Jul 17, 2019 ---
    To materialistic and a lot less spiritual.
     
  17. yaxomoxay macrumors 68040

    yaxomoxay

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    #17
    From a purely historical point of view, we don't really have big problems. I am not diminishing the serious issue we have (mental health, homelessness etc.) by any means, but if you look at what is happening in America, the vast majority of people doesn't have survival issues, and we're not in any major war. Yes, we have been in Afghanistan and Iraq since forever (way TOO long), but when you compare our casualties to other wars the situation is somewhat calm. In January 1969 alone for example, the number KIA US soldiers was at 542, and about 5,000 casualties. In a single month! Unemployment is at records low, and even the big recession was nothing compared to how we lived in the past. We also have more opportunities, we can start a business at home, at night after our 9-5 job which until 20 years ago was unimaginable. Usually we stick together in solving issues as humans when we have very serious problems, you can see this from the microcosmos of a family to the macrocosmos of a nation.
     
  18. DearthnVader macrumors 6502a

    DearthnVader

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    #18
    Jesus said the poor would alway be among us, I think he should have said the rich will always be among us too.:D

    President Jackson said that there are no necessary evils in government, that it's evil's lay only in it's abuses. That it is to be regretted that the rich and powerful all too often bend the acts of government for their own selfish purposes. Than government should confine itself to equal protection.

    Only too bad he couldn't live up to his own words when it came to black slaves and native Americans, neither could Washington nor Jefferson, but we don't through the baby out with the bathwater.
     
  19. Rogifan thread starter macrumors Core

    Rogifan

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    #19
    People put their tribe above all else, especially in the age of Trump.
     
  20. yaxomoxay macrumors 68040

    yaxomoxay

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    #20
    What's new? Remember the very first act in 2001 A Space Odyssey.
     
  21. JagdTiger macrumors 6502

    JagdTiger

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    #21
    That is only true when a first world country does not turn into a second world or third world which is where America is going to turn into.
     
  22. LordVic macrumors 603

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    #22
    Yes, But... Why not have MORE parties for more diversity of opinion on thought?

    with two parties, it's either YES or NO. it's binary. There's no truy variance of opinion because both sides will almost always just vote in counter.

    A third or fourth party really changes things up as it allows for more people to identify as there are more choices.

    When you look at US voter turnout, and and you realize that so few people care, that they are willingly giving their voices away to minority voices (Neither Hillary nor Trump won 50% of the registered voters).

    there's what? 300 MILLION registered voters in the US. and 55% of them don't show up, or don't vote for either candidate. There is easily enough room in there for 1 or 2 more parties across the spectrum.
     
  23. blackfox macrumors 65816

    blackfox

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    #23
    Around a hundred years ago, Rockefeller, Carnegie and the like were broken up by Government intervention. The sky didn't fall. They (collectively) ushered in a new era, but at too high a societal cost - so changes were made. People sometimes hate the Government, but it's the only useful tool to use towards Corporate overreach. Yeah, they will fight, and bitch-and-moan, but they'll adjust and likely we normal folk might just be better off. For now, it's still cheaper for Corporations to attempt to bribe/dismantle the government and/or market against intrinsic popular interests, but not necessarily forever.
     
  24. yaxomoxay macrumors 68040

    yaxomoxay

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    #24
    True, but 100 years ago the national and global economy wasn't that integrated and interconnected...
     
  25. blackfox macrumors 65816

    blackfox

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    #25
    So? The alternative is carte blanche? I also admire Kissinger (and his thesis on Metternich). I firmly believe if any entity is going to bend the rules to achieve a goal - it should be Government - as it's the only system us peons still have a hand in.
     

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28 July 16, 2019