Are Windows laptops as weak as MBP?

MacBH928

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So I have MB PRO '15 , and I am not sure why this thing is called Pro because I do not imagine anyone can do any intensive work on it. It really does not take much to shoot the CPU temps into the 75-80C/167-176F . Things as simple as running any game even from the 90s or using the Tor browser will make this thing's CPU sizzle.

Is this the norm today for all laptops or is this an Apple thing? So far the only thing that makes this thing run cool is things I expect to run on a MB Air like browsing using Safari and editing office documents.
 

Queen6

macrumors 604
No company can defy the laws of physics, the major difference being Apple offers very few options and a sole direction. Windows OEM's very different matter, with pretty much all aspects of the spectrum available.

Base i7-8750H
3103CB (No Taskbar).jpg
It gets hot as all high power CPU's do when pushed, however it never throttles as the cooling solution works as one would expect. As for Pro just Apple sales & marketing spin...

Q-6
 
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mi7chy

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That has more to do with Intel stuck on 14nm. The new Surface Pro 7 and Surface Laptop 3 13.5" ship with 10nm Intel 10th gen so we'll see if it fares better.
 

maflynn

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It really does not take much to shoot the CPU temps into the 75-80C
More cores = more heat, so while I think the direction intel is headed with the newer technology may help, the fact remains that high core counts will make things a bit toasty. GPUs are also contributing to issue, and that's on nvidia (or amd) as well as intel.
 

LeeW

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Is this the norm today for all laptops or is this an Apple thing?
The bottom line is that the more you cram into a small space, the hotter it gets in there. Is it the norm? To a degree yes.

Whether you are Apple, Microsoft Asus or whoever, you assume that the vast majority of users are not going to push the device to its thermal limits so often that it needs to 'beef up' the cooling for everyone's use case.

It really does not take much to shoot the CPU temps into the 75-80C/167-176F
Even simple tasks will cause the CPU to ramp up to the max it can achieve, when it does it the heat builds fast and the cooling kicks in to perform to a manufacturer determined fan curve. If that is not enough then you get thermal throttling.

I am on my PC now (i7-7700), all I am doing is typing this and have Spotify in the background. It is sitting mostly around 37c. But I have a Hyper 212x cooler inside with fans around the case drawing heat out. I could get it cooler but I have passed the responsibility for the fan curve to the auto-tune software.

If I was to use a simple cooler for the CPU and no other fans, much like most laptops I am willing to bet my PC will sit at around 50-55c doing the same tasks and then easily hit the 75-80c you are getting on the MBP.

Some are better than others, but in the ultrabook type device the majority will get into the 80c region with ease, some will hit thermal throttle like the MBP others will manage it better and not throttle but still sit at high temps.

The only way around high temps if you are not comfortable with them is a bulkier design with more substantial cooling. There is only so much you can do with small and thin, and that is not just an Apple trait.
 

ActionableMango

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I do not imagine anyone can do any intensive work on it.
There is a laptop class referred to as "desktop replacement". These are still portable computers and very recognizable as laptops, but they are geared toward sustained heavy use instead of thinness.

A key noticeable difference is that these all have fans and vents.

Here are some examples:
 

LeeW

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These are still portable computers and very recognizable as laptop
Portable has limits, these go beyond that :) Whilst they may have a laptop type form, what use are they away from a desk! The battery life of 3-5 hours at best so sustained, heavy use as long as you have a power outlet.

I mean, sure it will help you with cooling, but I suspect someone with a 15" MBP (the OP) is not going to say "Oh yeah, that is what I was actually looking for".
 

ActionableMango

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"Oh yeah, that is what I was actually looking for".
Geez, man. OP didn't supply enough information for someone to provide a perfect recommendation. And that wasn't what I was doing anyway...I was just sharing one option.
 

LeeW

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Geez, man. OP didn't supply enough information for someone to provide a perfect recommendation. And that wasn't what I was doing anyway...I was just sharing one option.
Wasnt mocking your suggestion was just speculating that by already owning a MBP 15 it was not going to be something they were looking for, apologies if it came across the wrong way.
 
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mmomega

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Take a piece of black tape.
Place over the word "PRO"
Problem solved.

This word triggers people into extreme levels of sarcasm, judgy-ness, and D-Baggery. Covering it should be the first mod towards a more care-free world.


Also other word to never use: future-proof
because there is no such thing.
replace it with "last a little bit longer before I upgrade again"
 
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556fmjoe

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I hear you on throttling. My T480 has an i7-8650u which performs better in benchmarks than the i5-7300HQ in my T470p if you believe the internet. Yet the T470p is significantly faster in the real world because it never throttles in the bigger T470p chassis. The T480's fans go wild at the slightest provocation and the thing slows to a crawl.

Generally, any laptop that hasn't succumbed to the thinness stupidity will provide adequate cooling.
 

MacBH928

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The bottom line is that the more you cram into a small space, the hotter it gets in there. Is it the norm? To a degree yes.

Whether you are Apple, Microsoft Asus or whoever, you assume that the vast majority of users are not going to push the device to its thermal limits so often that it needs to 'beef up' the cooling for everyone's use case.



Even simple tasks will cause the CPU to ramp up to the max it can achieve, when it does it the heat builds fast and the cooling kicks in to perform to a manufacturer determined fan curve. If that is not enough then you get thermal throttling.

I am on my PC now (i7-7700), all I am doing is typing this and have Spotify in the background. It is sitting mostly around 37c. But I have a Hyper 212x cooler inside with fans around the case drawing heat out. I could get it cooler but I have passed the responsibility for the fan curve to the auto-tune software.

If I was to use a simple cooler for the CPU and no other fans, much like most laptops I am willing to bet my PC will sit at around 50-55c doing the same tasks and then easily hit the 75-80c you are getting on the MBP.

Some are better than others, but in the ultrabook type device the majority will get into the 80c region with ease, some will hit thermal throttle like the MBP others will manage it better and not throttle but still sit at high temps.

The only way around high temps if you are not comfortable with them is a bulkier design with more substantial cooling. There is only so much you can do with small and thin, and that is not just an Apple trait.
I just don't imagine running your laptop at 80C for hours will be kind to its internals and we know manufacturers today love planned obsolescence. Can you imagine that? 80C heat in such a tight and closed place for hours?!

I do not know what people who use their laptops for things like 3D rendering and 4K video editing are doing, these "PROs" are not cutting it for sure. Unless maybe they buy a new laptop every 6-12 months.
 

Queen6

macrumors 604
I just don't imagine running your laptop at 80C for hours will be kind to its internals and we know manufacturers today love planned obsolescence. Can you imagine that? 80C heat in such a tight and closed place for hours?!

I do not know what people who use their laptops for things like 3D rendering and 4K video editing are doing, these "PROs" are not cutting it for sure. Unless maybe they buy a new laptop every 6-12 months.
They can cope admirably, the issue with Apple is throttling and thermal shock due to inadequate cooling. Some of us need a portable solution simple as that, given air travel tends to prohibit the use of desktops. A well designed cooling solution will mitigate or completely prevent the CPU/GPU rolling back frequency, it will also cover VRM's etc. to prevent over-temp/damage.

If the notebook isn't throttling then IMO it's fine irrespective of the temperature. If temperature on key components exceeds spec the system will simply dial back the performance to an acceptable level. Trade off with Apple is you trade performance for a slim & quiet design.

Q-6
 

LeeW

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Can you imagine that? 80C heat in such a tight and closed place for hours?!
Can you show me all the failing MBP's due to constant use and heat causing the CPU or other component failing? I could introduce you to many professionals that use a MBP for video editing and other tasks that run the system at max CPU for hours on end and have no issue over years of use.

Is it ideal? No, but they go on working nonetheless. It is nothing new, for many brands.
 
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maflynn

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I just don't imagine running your laptop at 80C for hours will be kind to its internals and we know manufacturers today love planned obsolescence. Can you imagine that? 80C heat in such a tight and closed place for hours?!
I think the 2019 MBP has done a great job and thermally managing itself. Better then many other PC laptops.
 

thejadedmonkey

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No. Apple optomizes for light workloads. Even the amazing battery life only lasts when you aren't pushing the computer.

Other companies will have larger cases that don't try to push the boundaries of physics. They will work better for real workloads.
 
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MacBH928

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Can you show me all the failing MBP's due to constant use and heat causing the CPU or other component failing? I could introduce you to many professionals that use a MBP for video editing and other tasks that run the system at max CPU for hours on end and have no issue over years of use.

Is it ideal? No, but they go on working nonetheless. It is nothing new, for many brands.
How long does their macbooks last? Do they upgrade yearly? Mine is too hot for the hand to touch if I push it. It will reach 95C, boiling water is at 100C. I honestly can't afford $2000 yearly, not even even every 3 years.
 

LeeW

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How often does their macbooks last? Mine is too hot for the hand to touch if I push it. It will reach 95C, boiling water is at 100C.
Like I said, years of use, I have not seen anyone lose a laptop as the processor fried the device from being too hot. Even if the fan fails, the CPU will throttle above 100c which is the max operating temp.

Use the device rather than fret over the temp.
 
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thejadedmonkey

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Apple laptops will throttle so they don't cook themselves. This means less processing power compared to a properly cooled laptop with the same CPU, but unless Apple does something insanely dumb it should never die from heat.
 

LeeW

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Apple laptops will throttle so they don't cook themselves. This means less processing power compared to a properly cooled laptop with the same CPU
Every laptop will throttle if it gets too hot, let's not bash Apple like they are the only ones. My Lenovo S940 throttles more than my 13" 2019 MBP did and the MBP maintained a higher clock speed, very small difference though, that makes no difference to me.
 

Queen6

macrumors 604
Every laptop will throttle if it gets too hot, let's not bash Apple like they are the only ones. My Lenovo S940 throttles more than my 13" 2019 MBP did and the MBP maintained a higher clock speed, very small difference though, that makes no difference to me.
Some do some don't...
8750H 3.9GHz all cores as long as you need
3103CB (No Taskbar).jpg
Trade off is your not going to see similar performance in an Ultrabook/MBP chassis for the same given CPU. This is a ASUS ROG GL703GS (8750H, 32GB RAM, GTX 1070, duel drives, 17.3" 144Hz, sub 3Kg)

Reason I opt for gaming notebooks for my professional need is they are designed to be hammered and generally have solid cooling solutions. That Said I'm following Acer's Concept line as they too look very promising, I like the possibilities the Concept D9 presents, might bust the weight budget...

Q-6
 
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LeeW

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Some do some don't...
but even yours will throttle if it gets too hot, that was my point, not that every laptop will throttle no matter what. But, Apples and Oranges, the Asus Rog machine is a high-end gaming laptop, thicker, heavier, it needs cooling that is better than an ultrabook design as heat is not likely to be a concern, it is guaranteed to be for it's intended use, gaming.

You just can't get that level of performance in an ultrabook when it comes to cooling management, not yet at least, I have seen some like Asus that are trying to lift the backend slightly to allow better outflow of heat through well-placed vents but still limited gain, I guess any gain is better than none.

Edit:

Not trying to labour the point, I am interested in how various form factors really differ in terms of performance and cooling so had a look at the Asus Rog GL703GS being used for its primary purpose, gaming. The review are all the same, even with the cooling at max level 'overboost' the CPU is very high hovering around 95-98c, as well as being very noisy which is to be expected. Not throttling but by no means cool.
 
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Queen6

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but even yours will throttle if it gets too hot, that was my point, not that every laptop will throttle no matter what. But, Apples and Oranges, the Asus Rog machine is a high-end gaming laptop, thicker, heavier, it needs cooling that is better than an ultrabook design as heat is not likely to be a concern, it is guaranteed to be for it's intended use, gaming.

You just can't get that level of performance in an ultrabook when it comes to cooling management, not yet at least, I have seen some like Asus that are trying to lift the backend slightly to allow better outflow of heat through well-placed vents but still limited gain, I guess any gain is better than none.
True, it will if the CPU exceeds 95C BIOS will override, generally it never passes 80C under sustained load. Yes it can throttle until the cooling solution spools up. Problem I have with Apple is one direction; thin, thin and thinner irrespective of the cost to those that need more, compromising both usability and reliability...

Good luck to Apple as I've stated and I stand behind "it's an exodus by those that need to get **** done" beyond disappointed...

Q-6
 
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Queen6

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Oh, I am not going to defend them trying to squeeze it smaller and smaller, I am out of the MBP world, not going to let my mac mini go but will have nothing else unless they change in a big way.
TBH it's a shame, as with all once you sell out there's no return... Jobs wasn't without issue, however one did feel he pushed Apple to produce the very best it possibly could do.

Today one feels it's simply all about the $ little else; boring, dull iterative updates, locked into a predetermined update cycle, regardless of issues.

Apple you have lost my custom both, privately & professionally. Once I would have categorically endorsed the Mac, today simply no, waste of $$$$....

Q-6
 
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