Argentina looses contact with diesel-electric attack submarine

darksithpro

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Original poster
Oct 27, 2016
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Hopefully they find it. Never know if the crew would go rogue, or an accident. That submarine class can carry 22 torpedo's and is super quiet and super fast.

https://news.usni.org/2017/11/17/nasa-aircraft-joins-search-missing-argentine-submarine-44-sailors-u-s-navy-submarine-rescue-crews-equipment-mobilizing

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TR-1700-class_submarine

These ships are amongst the largest submarines built in Germany since World War II and are among the fastest diesel-electric submarines in the world.

Displacement:
  • 2116 tonnes (Surfaced)
  • 2264 tonnes (Submerged)
Length: 66 m (216 ft 6 in)
Beam: 7.3 m (23 ft 11 in)
Draught: 6.5 m (21 ft 4 in) (21.32 feet)
Propulsion:
  • 1 shaft 4 × MTU diesels
  • 1 × Siemens electric motor
Speed:
  • 15 knots (28 km/h; 17 mph) surfaced
  • 25 knots (46 km/h; 29 mph) submerged
Range: 12,000 nmi (22,000 km; 14,000 mi) at 8 kn (15 km/h; 9.2 mph) surfaced
Endurance: 30 days
Test depth: 300 m (980 ft)
Complement: 26
Sensors and
processing systems:
  • radar Thompson CSF Calypso
  • Sonar Atlas Elektronik CSU 3/4, Thompson Sintra DUUX-5
Armament:
 

A.Goldberg

macrumors 68020
Jan 31, 2015
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Boston
Hopefully they find it. Never know if the crew would go rogue, or an accident. That submarine class can carry 22 torpedo's and is super quiet and super fast.

https://news.usni.org/2017/11/17/nasa-aircraft-joins-search-missing-argentine-submarine-44-sailors-u-s-navy-submarine-rescue-crews-equipment-mobilizing

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TR-1700-class_submarine

These ships are amongst the largest submarines built in Germany since World War II and are among the fastest diesel-electric submarines in the world.

Displacement:
  • 2116 tonnes (Surfaced)
  • 2264 tonnes (Submerged)
Length: 66 m (216 ft 6 in)
Beam: 7.3 m (23 ft 11 in)
Draught: 6.5 m (21 ft 4 in) (21.32 feet)
Propulsion:
  • 1 shaft 4 × MTU diesels
  • 1 × Siemens electric motor
Speed:
  • 15 knots (28 km/h; 17 mph) surfaced
  • 25 knots (46 km/h; 29 mph) submerged
Range: 12,000 nmi (22,000 km; 14,000 mi) at 8 kn (15 km/h; 9.2 mph) surfaced
Endurance: 30 days
Test depth: 300 m (980 ft)
Complement: 26
Sensors and
processing systems:
  • radar Thompson CSF Calypso
  • Sonar Atlas Elektronik CSU 3/4, Thompson Sintra DUUX-5
Armament:
I’ve always thought submarines to be fascinating- from the design to the tactics. My great grandfather was a submariner. My home state of CT is home to General Dynamics/Electric Boat who of course makes our submarines. I can only imagine how terrifying it must have been during war to be sailing around in one of those.

Diesel-electric is no match for nuclear though. All US submarines now are nuclear and are pretty much only limited to surface for food and supplies. Diesel electric obviously must surface (or nearly surface) to run the engines to charge the batteries and to refuel.

Hopefully the missing crew will be found. 44 sailors would be a devistating loss. Unfortunately there have been a number of submarine tradgeties over the years and they will probably continue.
 
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juanm

macrumors 68000
May 1, 2006
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I’ve always thought submarines to be fascinating- from the design to the tactics. My great grandfather was a submariner. My home state of CT is home to General Dynamics/Electric Boat who of course makes our submarines. I can only imagine how terrifying it must have been during war to be sailing around in one of those.

Diesel-electric is no match for nuclear though. All US submarines now are nuclear and are pretty much only limited to surface for food and supplies. Diesel electric obviously must surface (or nearly surface) to run the engines to charge the batteries and to refuel.

Hopefully the missing crew will be found. 44 sailors would be a devistating loss. Unfortunately there have been a number of submarine tradgeties over the years and they will probably continue.
I can recommend a few books:
Blind Man's Bluff
The Silent War by John Craven (who died a couple of years ago and had a fascinating life)
Cold War Submarines by Norman Polmar

And the documentary Azorian, the raising of the K129.
 

A.Goldberg

macrumors 68020
Jan 31, 2015
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I can recommend a few books:
Blind Man's Bluff
The Silent War
by John Craven (who died a couple of years ago and had a fascinating life)
Cold War Submarines by Norman Polmar

And the documentary Azorian, the raising of the K129.
Thanks for the list. I’ll have to look those up. I’ve seen just about every Sub related movie, including the Project Azorian documentary. What a crazy bit of history that is.

For the past few years I’ve been meaning to revisit the USS Nautilus Museum in Groton, CT. It’s about 30min away from my parents summer home in RI and a few miles away from where their boat is docked. Unfortunately I haven’t followed through. I visited probably 2 decades ago but don’t remember much of it.
 
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FeliApple

macrumors 65816
Apr 8, 2015
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Per Argentine media, noises and calls discovered so far weren't from the submarine, but now another noise was detected and might be from the submarine. It's being processed now.
 
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cube

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May 10, 2004
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The sound was determined not to be from a submarine, but apparently biological.

The sub might still be traveling, the sea has been very rough.
 
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cube

macrumors P6
May 10, 2004
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A reporter said it had not been not possible to determine at all from where the failed satellite calls came.
 

cube

macrumors P6
May 10, 2004
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- The markings on the empty raft recovered do not correspond to the submarine, it could have fallen from a ship.
- Some white flares were seen, but the sub does not carry this color
- Some ships are now scanning the flare area
- The meteorological conditions were hampering the scanning these last days, but things are better now.
 

cube

macrumors P6
May 10, 2004
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Iridium said no calls were made on their network from the sub, but does not discount a different satellite phone might be on board.
 

cube

macrumors P6
May 10, 2004
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There was a noise a few hours after the last communication from the sub about 30 miles to the north from the last known position. Some ships will arrive around 23:00 Argentinian time to scan, and there will be an American P-8 flight and a Brazilian P-3 (MAD) flight.

The area had been scanned previously (at least aerially, as they had claimed 100% coverage had been reached).

The localization of the noise has a radius of about 125 km.
 
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cube

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FeliApple

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There was apparently an explosion which occurred on November the 15th at 10:31 AM reported as being "a singular event, anomalous, violent, non-nuclear, and consistent with an explosion" in that area. There are suspicions that it could be the submarine. Also, the explosion didn't appear to be the result of an attack.
 

cube

macrumors P6
May 10, 2004
16,432
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There was an explosion which occurred on November the 15th at 10:31 AM reported as being "a singular event, anomalous, violent, non-nuclear, and consistent with an explosion" in that area. There are suspicions that it could be the submarine. Also, the explosion didn't appear to be the result of an attack.
Apparently an explosion.
 

juanm

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Also, the explosion didn't appear to be the result of an attack.
Stating the obvious... Of all the countries under threat of an attack, why in the world would anyone attack Argentina right now?

Also, when was the last time a sub was sunk by another sub attack? WW2?
 
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darksithpro

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Original poster
Oct 27, 2016
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There might be some light on why this happened. It has to do with the 2014 retrofit. Apparently is was a shoddy job.

https://www.reddit.com/r/submarines/comments/7dl3gy/argentina_submarine_ara_san_juan_is_missing/

"I will ask him about that mentioned incident in the next few days. It's too hard to talk about it now. Today earlier I did ask him about that question exactly and he said this (copypaste, Spanish): "Re usaron la caja, todo lo que va en el interior fué reemplazado por nuevo. Puede ser que sí falló o no, no de sabe hasta que no se vea, y ahí está lo difícil. Acá dentro de todos los que están, "está" el oficial electricista que hizo cursos sobre el tema en Varta, y fué el responsable de ese trabajo."

English: "They reused the box, everything that goes inside was replaced with new materials. It could be that that failed or not, it cannot be known until it is checked, and that's the difficult part. Here among all the ones that are around "is" also the electrician officer who took courses about the topic at Varta, and who was the responsible person for that job."
 

FeliApple

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Apr 8, 2015
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Stating the obvious... Of all the countries under threat of an attack, why in the world would anyone attack Argentina right now?

Also, when was the last time a sub was sunk by another sub attack? WW2?
Of course, there's no reason, but there is a possibility, however slim might it be. Just worth mentioning it, IMO.
 
Stating the obvious... Of all the countries under threat of an attack, why in the world would anyone attack Argentina right now?

Also, when was the last time a sub was sunk by another sub attack? WW2?
I have to confess, when I saw that the sub's course went close to the Falklands it did briefly cross my mind whether our government might not be telling us something. We do apparently have a nuclear sub down there most of the time.

I don't think it is that by the way. Just saying I wondered whether it was a possibility.

Regarding the explosion, to be honest now that it's more likely the submariners have not survived this I consider that a preferable end compared to a long drawn out fading hope situation. Totally tragic all round though. Those poor people.