Arizona legislature passes restrictive abortion bill

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by it5five, Mar 20, 2009.

  1. it5five macrumors 65816

    it5five

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    #1
    http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/2009/03/12/20090312abortion0312.html

    This happened a few days ago but the Idaho thread motivated me to post this. Like Idaho, under this bill pharmacists can refuse to sell emergency contraceptives, which is already being debated in the Idaho thread.

    There is more to the Arizona law that is just as troubling as the contraceptive issue though. Under this law, any women seeking an abortion has to undergo a mandated "24-hour reflection period", any minor has to obtain notarized consent from a parent/guardian, and a required "consultation" which is supposed to guilt women into changing their minds.

    Apparently our state legislature believe women are incapable of critical thought on their own and need a mandated day of "reflection" (as if they haven't already "reflected" on their own).

    Your thoughts?
     
  2. leekohler macrumors G5

    leekohler

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    #2
    Wow- the right is really pushing their agenda since they lost the presidency...
     
  3. it5five thread starter macrumors 65816

    it5five

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    #3
    They made huge gains here in Arizona. Not only did we lose our Democratic governor to her Republican replacement, but the Republicans picked up seats in the legislature in the election. Democrats actually lost seats here.
     
  4. leekohler macrumors G5

    leekohler

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    #4
    Move to another state. There's obviously something wrong with yours. :)
     
  5. JLatte macrumors 6502

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    #5
    Well at least they can still get an abortion. Honestly if someone is dead set on getting one, I doubt their mind will change in 24 hours, nor will any massive change in fetus, or the mother's body. I'm going to go out on a limb here and suggest that since these pills do have a very rough effect on most women that take them (my girlfriend did this before), and it is a rather large decision somewhat, that maybe it's not so bad to think it over for one day.

    If they still want the pill they can do that, but at least they've mulled it over. Like I said, if they really want it, they can still get the pill.
     
  6. it5five thread starter macrumors 65816

    it5five

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    #6
    Why do you assume these women haven't already "mulled it over" on their own? It's incredibly insulting and sexist to assume that every single woman seeing a doctor for an abortion has not already done so. Do you believe women are incapable of "mulling it over" on their own, and need to be insulted and talked down to in order to make an informed decision?
     
  7. leekohler macrumors G5

    leekohler

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    #7
    Most women who decide to terminate a pregnancy have been thinking about it for a lot more than a day before they arrive at the decision. It's not something the vast majority of women impulsively do.
     
  8. it5five thread starter macrumors 65816

    it5five

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    #8
    Exactly. It's just really an attempt to shame some women into going full term, even though it may not be in their (or the future child's) best interest.
     
  9. JLatte macrumors 6502

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    #9
    I never said women were incapable of making their own decisions. Where does it state they will be insulted and talked down? All you're doing is making assumptions. Just because Arizona lost Democratic seats doesn't mean that doctors are Democratic, you're overreacting.

    Nowhere does it state that they will attempt to shame women into going full term. I find it incredibly sexist that you would suggest that women are so weak minded that they would reconsider their decision after consulting with a doctor and getting 'talked down to' and coerced into a different decision. Like I said... if they want an abortion, they're going to get it.

    I agree that most women have thought about it. All this does is consult those few that haven't, and even then hopefully the ones that fall under the category of 'most women' aren't going to be changing their minds just because of a consultation and a 24 hour waiting period. It's not like the 24 hour waiting period is going to change their ability to get an abortion unless they've waited far too long, and if that is the case, then they shouldn't have waited that long to get an abortion.
     
  10. it5five thread starter macrumors 65816

    it5five

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    #10
    Where did I say anything about doctor's political affiliation? You lost me on that one.

    Well, I see this part of the bill:

    as an attempt at shaming women into going full term.


    So why have this law at all? It just seems like a waste of everyone's time and money.
     
  11. jonbravo77 macrumors 6502a

    jonbravo77

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    #11
    Poor Arizona, we are falling to the morality of a religious occult. But I still hold dear to the state I live in even though it is being pulled down to a new low...
     
  12. Shivetya macrumors 65816

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    #12
    I agree with one of the provisions without issue, requiring a real DOCTOR to perform it. I still want to know why a minor can have an abortion without their parent's knowing about it (consent or not). Who pays for this? Me?

    Sorry, I want them to pay for it. Get their parents to pay for it, maybe it might like get them to pay attention to their kids.
     
  13. JLatte macrumors 6502

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    #13
    I really don't see anything wrong with this law at all. It seems like a perfectly fine compromise between the left and right. The right gets their 24 hour waiting period, and the left gets the right to still have an abortion. I don't see how one consultation for *maybe* an hour is going to change someone's mind who's actually going to get an abortion.
     
  14. it5five thread starter macrumors 65816

    it5five

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    #14
    Well I guess that's where we disagree. I don't believe in compromise when it comes to women's rights (or anyone's rights, for that matter). The only winner here is the religious right. They made it more difficult (especially for rural women) to get an abortion.
     
  15. NoSmokingBandit macrumors 68000

    NoSmokingBandit

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    #15
    This is exactly what i was thinking. Let the left bash the right as much as they want, all it does is show that they arent as "accepting" as they claim to be.
    This bill sounds like a good thing. It makes the whole thing safer by requiring a physician, and who can argue against safer procedures? Idk about other states, but here in PA a minor cant even get his/her ears pierced without parental consent, so why should abortions be handed out without parental consent? The "waiting period" thing is a bit bullocks, but im assuming that most doctors wont perform an abortion right away anyhow, they have plenty of appointments throughout the day. If they worded the 'waiting period' section differently it might be easier to accept.

    Im still confused as to how its a womans "right" to destroy a human life, but i suppose its one of those 'out of sight, out of mind' kind of deals.
     
  16. JLatte macrumors 6502

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    #16
    I understand, but you know there's no winning. If it's full complete abortion allowance, then one side is going to be complaining and pushing bills until it gets banned completely outright. If abortion is banned, then obviously that's no good for anyone, then there's problems all around. What I meant by the quote that you lost me on is that even though the religious right is the winner, it's not as though all doctors follow the religious right. They just have to inform the patient of alternatives, and hopefully that's all they'll do. I know there will be exceptions, just as in the Idaho pharmacy one of doctors that let their beliefs get in the way of their practice and try to actually guilt trip the patient into changing their mind, but most doctors aren't like that.

    Hopefully with government changes to how people receive health care and the costs related to them with the new administration it won't be as hard for rural women, except for the issue of time.
     
  17. iJohnHenry macrumors P6

    iJohnHenry

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    #17
    And you always will be, given your predilection to the Papal view of things.

    The majority of the zygote is the woman's egg, and as she is the support system for it's continued existence for the next 8+ months and thereafter, I think that it is her call.
     
  18. Marble macrumors 6502a

    Marble

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    #18
    Wait, that's not a compromise. In your equation, the "left" should be satisfied because they don't lose something?

    If you don't see how that could happen, then what's the point of it in the first place?
     
  19. JLatte macrumors 6502

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    #19
    Given this day in age with the current religious fanatics that do assert their views, I'm just saying it's a good thing that they didn't propose to downright ban it completely. Don't see what's so bad about that, turn lemons into lemonade.
     
  20. Delta608 macrumors regular

    Delta608

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    #20
    According to his Avatar I am sure they wouldn't be sorry to see him go...
     
  21. it5five thread starter macrumors 65816

    it5five

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    #21
    I plan on it. I graduate in December and will hopefully be leaving for grad. school (wherever I end up getting accepted) by next summer. I just need to put up with this state for one more year.

    And I won't be sad to leave it behind.
     
  22. imac/cheese macrumors 6502a

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    #22
    How could it ever be not in the future child's best interest to go full term?
     
  23. Cromulent macrumors 603

    Cromulent

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    #23
    Since when has abortion become a left versus right issue? Abortion is an apolitical issue.
     
  24. leekohler macrumors G5

    leekohler

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    #24
    Definitely get out of there. I didn't know how bad Ohio was until I left. Every time I go to visit my family there I have nightmares that I'm drowning. No- I'm not kidding.
     
  25. Ugg macrumors 68000

    Ugg

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    #25
    Roughly 25% of all pregnancies end up naturally as miscarriages. I'm sure there are a lot of complicated factors at work, but many of those miscarriages are of grossly malformed fetuses.

    Do you suggest that all miscarriages should be treated as potential crimes against humanity?
     

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