Armed citizens versus the gov't

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by Mac'nCheese, Apr 4, 2013.

  1. Mac'nCheese macrumors 68030

    Mac'nCheese

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    #1
    It comes up in every thread pretty much these days: the right to bear arms is what keeps our gov't (USA, mostly) in check. Without our armed citizens, the government could rob us of all our other rights. What do you think? Maybe in the days of ol' we could fight back against the army, but now, do you think we'd have a chance? Lot's of people talk about Germany before WWII and how the gov't took the guns from their people and then they started taking away all other rights.....but if the people were armed in the first place, how'd the gov't take all the guns without the people not putting up a fight? Were they unable to? Unwilling to?
     
  2. StruckANerve macrumors 6502

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    #2
    If Al Qaeda can stalemate the U.S. Military I think armed militias in America would have no problem. There is also the fact that a large portion of the Military would not obey orders to fire on U.S. citizens. Most soldiers take their oath to uphold and protect the constitution very seriously and no jackass in a suit and tie is going to make them break that oath.
     
  3. Mac'nCheese thread starter macrumors 68030

    Mac'nCheese

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    #3
    Didn't the military fire on un-armed Americans during the peace rallies of the 60s? I don't see why they wouldn't fire on armed citizens who, according to the army's bosses, are the ones not upholding the constitution.
     
  4. DakotaGuy, Apr 4, 2013
    Last edited: Apr 4, 2013

    DakotaGuy macrumors 68040

    DakotaGuy

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    #4
    Maybe the Politics, Religion Social Issues area should just become the Gun area. It seems to be about 90% of what everyone on here discusses anymore.
     
  5. Moyank24 macrumors 601

    Moyank24

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    #5
    If a citizen was firing or threatening to fire, you don't think they would fire back?

    Did what you're saying hold true during the Civil War?

    I think an armed "militia" standing up against our military is a romantic, and completely unrealistic notion.
     
  6. eric/ Guest

    eric/

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    #6
    Why? Is it romantic because all of that advantages of the US military are thrown out the window in such a war? What are they going to do, fly B2s and AC-130s over NYC and just start bombing the place?

    Oops, you killed my brother, I'm joining the rebellion.

    While I think any such rebellion is never going to happen (people are comfortable where they are) the notion that the US military is just going to win some insurrection is uncertain at its very best.
     
  7. dukebound85 macrumors P6

    dukebound85

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    #7
    I am really curious why you state this

    Do you really assume that our military forces would
    1) stay unified?
    2) be able to control an unruly population that is multiple magnitudes in order greater in size?
    3) be able to avoid (the many) pitfalls it has had in foreign countries where we were halted, despite our superior capabilities, by the population/militia forces?
     
  8. MacNut macrumors Core

    MacNut

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    #8
    The second amendment was designed to be able to overthrow the government, I don't see how we could possibly do that now. We can't even get these people out of office the legal way, how can we over throw them.
     
  9. StruckANerve macrumors 6502

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    #9
    There are way too many hypotheticals to even answer most of these questions. All that can be said is Guerilla warfare is extremely effective against larger forces.
     
  10. Eraserhead macrumors G4

    Eraserhead

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    #10
    Fixed it for you.
     
  11. eric/ Guest

    eric/

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    #11
    Well you can't get them out the legal way, because you're playing the game, by their rules.
     
  12. Menel macrumors 603

    Menel

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    #12
    Not just technologically, and equipment wise are citizens outgunned. But in training, and planned maneuvers and strategy. Not to mention command structure and discipline.

    This is not new. This is an age old problem if you study history. Our founding father's had similar issues with militia vs. military. George Washington often wrote about and lamented the poor discipline and desertion common from militia groups.

    Yet, they still played an important role.

    The "people" stand no chance against an organized government and military. Factions of the government or military would also have to break away in support of whatever 'rebellion'. Factions of their military, or external disciplined and trained armed forces have to come to aid.
     
  13. Moyank24 macrumors 601

    Moyank24

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    #13
    Why are you assuming that all of the advantages the US Military has would be thrown out the window? Some maybe, but not all.

    Would our military be more unified than our population? Are we assuming that the entire population of the US would try and overthrow the government? I think we are talking about pockets of people. We would have the "armed militia" vs. the US Military vs. those who want no part of any of it. It's absolutely unrealistic to assume that everyone would participate in such a rebellion. Especially an armed rebellion.

    It's hard to compare what our armed forces are facing in the Middle East and what they would face here against a small number of rebels.

    Seriously, have you ever watched Doomsday Preppers? Those people would be the first to die...:D
     
  14. xShane macrumors 6502a

    xShane

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    #14
    Right. Because the government has already tried to take away rights and it's a good thing the people and their guns fought back.

    Hitler was extreme right wing. As long as we don't let any of them in office we shouldn't have a problem.

    Sounds like you're under the typical propaganda that the government wants to take away all your guns. They don't.

    The problem with that is, is if the military takes an order, like a jet or a guy controlling a drone for example, they're told to take out a certain area/location. They don't ask questions like who/what/why. They follow the order.

    Please tell me the second amendment.
     
  15. eric/ Guest

    eric/

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    #15
    Most. Navy and Air force aren't going to be able to do a whole lot. If we were talking a real rebellion you can expect air force basis to be overrun. The military relies on civilian contractors to work on aircraft. Companies like Boeing would have sympathizers. Then all of a sudden they sabotage aircraft navigation systems.

    What's the Navy going to do? Launch F-18s and start bombing cities? How are they going to pick out who is a rebel and who isn't?

    The US military couldn't possibly handle such a war. It's just not that type of military.

    Even if 2% of Americans "rebelled" that would be far larger than the size of the military. And do you think people are going to be happy being stopped at checkpoints? Or having tanks drive down the road?
     
  16. Moyank24 macrumors 601

    Moyank24

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    #16
    You're assuming that those 2% would be unified. There would be small pockets of people across the nation, thousands of miles apart from each other.

    I'm betting there will be people who would rather be stopped at checkpoints than have their neighbors running around playing civil war.
     
  17. eric/ Guest

    eric/

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    #17
    Well since the large majority of Americans live in urban areas, it's most likely they'd be concentrated.

    What do you think there's going to be little rebellions of 5 people who the police are going to come get in local town 2?
     
  18. rdowns macrumors Penryn

    rdowns

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    #18
    Seems to me we have too many people who think Red Dawn is real.
     
  19. Moyank24 macrumors 601

    Moyank24

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    Do you really think that the armed rebellion is going to come from urban dwellers?

    I think, yes, there are going to be pockets in rural areas of people that are not organized and not unified. And they are going to be spread across 3000 miles.
     
  20. eric/ Guest

    eric/

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    #20
    Sure. And we have a lot of people who are simply unaware about how ineffective a conventional war fighting force is at fighting unconventional forces.

    ----------

    Well since that's where most of the population is, it makes sense.

    And I think it'll be the entire nation united as one against the federal government ! OORAH!
     
  21. Moyank24 macrumors 601

    Moyank24

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    #21
    I can go into a store today and buy myself an "assault rife". Does that mean I'm ready to fight the military? Owning a gun doesn't make you suddenly turn into Rambo.

    There's unconventional, and there's just plain unprepared.

    Organizations like the NRA and other 2nd Amendment advocates seemed to have brainwashed people into thinking that all you need is a gun. The training, the planning, the unification will just come via osmosis.
     
  22. Peterkro macrumors 68020

    Peterkro

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    #22
    The Panthers tried to stand up to a racist government,result, laws were changed and quite a few of their members assassinated.Agreed they were a smallish group but it would be foolish not to understand just how violent the state can be when challenged.

    There was considerable resistance to the Nazis in 30's Germany almost entirely by the left most were killed those that survived until Hitler took over ended up in labour or concentration camps.
     
  23. xShane macrumors 6502a

    xShane

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    #23
    Well as long as you play Xbox/Call of Duty, too...
     
  24. likemyorbs macrumors 68000

    likemyorbs

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    #24
    anti-government rhetoric scares me much more than the government.
     
  25. xShane macrumors 6502a

    xShane

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    #25
    I'd also like to add that if armed, revolting civilians DO fire on the military, they WILL fire back.
     

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