Army suspends recruiter for anti-gay e-mail rants

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by leekohler, Apr 6, 2007.

  1. leekohler macrumors G5

    leekohler

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    #1
    Oh it's just been too long- a week? Two weeks? Just another example of the foolishness of Don't Ask Don't Tell. Fun stuff.



    http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/chi-0704050845apr06,1,343731.story?coll=chi-news-hed

     
  2. Blue Velvet Moderator emeritus

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    #2
    "You go back to Africa and do your gay voodoo limbo tango and wango dance and jump around and prance and run all over the place half naked there and practice your gay morals over there that's where you belong," she told Powell.

    What a loving human being... next stop, Abu Ghraib.


    "Attempts to reach Ramode for comment were unsuccessful."

    I always love seeing this in a story.
     
  3. FreeState macrumors 68000

    FreeState

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    #3
    She just got reassigned? Wow - they must be really hard up if they are not canning her on the spot.
     
  4. leekohler thread starter macrumors G5

    leekohler

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    #4
    I don't find that surprising at all.
     
  5. FreeState macrumors 68000

    FreeState

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    #5
    Yeah it just p*sses me off though. I don't want my hard earned tax money paying for someone to be a racist homophobic bigot.
     
  6. leekohler thread starter macrumors G5

    leekohler

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    #6
    I'm sure there are a lot more than just that bad apple. That was probably one of the nicer people.
     
  7. FreeState macrumors 68000

    FreeState

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    #7
    I hate to say it but you are probably right. After all I have a brother that wont even acknowledge my partner exists, and a brother in-law that told my partner to his face that my family would rather never see him again (which is not true either, my parents adore my partner), so I can only imagine how bigoted people act when its with someone they do not even know.
     
  8. Thomas Veil macrumors 68020

    Thomas Veil

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    If I could take a deduction for every one of those types in a position of power in this administration, I'd get a lot of money back. :D
     
  9. princealfie macrumors 68030

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    #9
    She probably got asked out on some dates however :rolleyes: ...
     
  10. leekohler thread starter macrumors G5

    leekohler

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    I'm sure she did! For being a true 'mercan! :)
     
  11. princealfie macrumors 68030

    princealfie

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    #11
    So I guess no freedom of speech eh? Very strange.
     
  12. Abstract macrumors Penryn

    Abstract

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    #12
    I agree with him as well, and I'm not homophobic.

    It would be more trouble than it's worth, both for gay men and the military as a unit.

    Well, she was only reassigned to other tasks because there are probably a lot of people in the Army who feel the same way as her. Maybe her boss feel the same way, and didn't fire her for that reason. :eek:
     
  13. halfprep455 macrumors regular

    halfprep455

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    #13
    Gay Americans are citizens as much as everyother Straight American. They should most definitly have the right to serve their country. The argument being used against allowing gays in the military is the same one used 70 years ago to keep blacks and minorities out of the armed forces. I highly doubt that there would be many cases if any of a gay soldier sexually assulting another soldier. If there was a case like this, the gay soldier would most definitly be severly punished. Why should someone be denied the right to defend their homeland b/c of their sexuality? In fact, did you know that the 1st US marine to step foot in Iraq and the 1st US marine to get wounded and recive a metal admited that he was gay? Sounds like they really make ineffective soldiers. (sarcasm)

    BTW, I find it really ironic that Conservatives are so hell bent on having a large and effective military but they will not allow gay people to join. I will never understand conservitives lack of logic.
     
  14. Father Jack macrumors 68020

    Father Jack

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    #14
    What argument would that be?
     
  15. JNB macrumors 604

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    Speaking only for myself, a Cold-war era, Reagan Republican, Navy retiree (scared anybody off yet?), I would've s**tcanned that recruiter in a New York minute.

    That was the most appalling, unprofessional thing to come out of the mouth of someone who is supposed to represent a professional , all-volunteer armed force.

    The one thing I learned and believe to this day is that the oath we swore is to the Constitution of the United States, and the principles that it defines and represents.

    Maybe homosexuality wasn't in the game plan 231 years ago, but it is today. There are AMERICAN CITIZENS that happen to be gay, and they are just as deserving of my protection, and if willing, the privilege to serve alongside me, as anyone.

    Just because I get creeped out by the thought of it, so what? Eggplant creeps me out, too. What of it? My personal beliefs or preferences have nothing to do with it. It's what I agreed to defend and uphold. I don't have to like it, or agree with it, I just have to keep my yap shut and do my job, or else let my contract expire and move along.

    My opinions are my own, and represent nobody but me. Don't presume to apply any particular narrow-minded viewpoint (either leftist or reactionary) to me or or any others that wear the uniform. We're individuals with opinions no more or less valid than anyone else's. The only difference is that we decided to walk the line where no one else would.

    We are you, like it or not.
     
  16. Abstract macrumors Penryn

    Abstract

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    Well, I'm going to clarify on my earlier comment and say that yes, gay men should be allowed to serve in the army. They should have a chance to serve and protect their country, since gay men are protected by the very same country. Protection isn't selective based on sexuality.

    However, I think the "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" policy is actually a smart one. You may argue that a gay man NOT in the army will run into trouble just by walking down the street, but that shouldn't stop him from doing so anyway. That's true, but it's a different environment.
     
  17. halfprep455 macrumors regular

    halfprep455

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    I totaly agree. I plan on joining the national guard in a few months and I would not be the least bit offended or freaked out if there was a gay person serving alongside of me. I also know a bunch of Marines that say they wouldn't care if the person next to them in the foxhole is gay. The only thing I care about and most people in the military care about is if that person can guard back and if you can guard his. That is all that truly matters.
     
  18. angelneo macrumors 68000

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    Abstract, I have to disagreed with you this time round, I know for a fact that sometimes (though it is not often), gay men can perform much better than their heterosexual counterparts in the military setting. It's more of the mentality and attitude that matters. You may argue that some or most gay men will not do well in the military, I can give you that. (they would not even apply in the first place), but I think it would not be good to be influence by the stereotype.

    EDIT: Just saw your post earlier, ignore what I say then
     
  19. RojoLeo macrumors 6502

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    #19
    You're a good man. ;)

    I'll go out on a limb and assume you'll be a fellow supporter of the Mayor this next election cycle.
     
  20. JNB macrumors 604

    JNB

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    Ooh, that depends. Senator (CAPT) McCain is a shipmate, his grandad and my father & uncle served together. Between him & the Mayor would be a toughie for me. I'd actually prefer them on the ticket together, either side up.
     
  21. leekohler thread starter macrumors G5

    leekohler

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    #21
    Abstract, I couldn't be more disappointed. Hey- maybe I shouldn't be allowed to go to straight bars either because some hillbilly dumbf*** might try to kick my a**. Well guess what? They've tried before and lost miserably. I hate the assumption that we're all a bunch of "sissies" (hey, no offense, I like my effeminate guys) as some people like to put it. Don't be so quick to draw conclusions either of you. :mad:
     
  22. leekohler thread starter macrumors G5

    leekohler

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    Thank you sir and thanks for all you've done. It is appreciated, believe me.
     
  23. OldCorpse macrumors 65816

    OldCorpse

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    Gay people have worked in all professions and are present in all societies.

    There were gay people in the military back in ancient times.

    If the U.S. military were in charge of Greece back in the day, they'd not accept in their ranks an outspoken and practicing homosexual: Alexander the Great. Who was oh, only the greatest military genius who ever lived. And Persia would have dominated Greece, and history of the Western world would have been very different. You know what? I'm glad the U.S. military was not in charge of Greece back then :)

    Yes, the U.S. military would reject - TODAY - Alexander the Great, the greatest military leader of all time, because he was a practicing homosexual. This is why people say that "military intelligence" is an oxymoron. It's as if you had a basketball team, and made sure to reject Michael Jordan. You think that's purely theoretical? Think again. Just recently there was an amazing story of how the military intelligence is desperately short of translaters who specialize in Arabic. Guess what they did - that's right, they fired all their gay translators who knew Arabic... only because they were gay. Wise, huh?

    History does not bear out the bigots. Ancient Greeks as well as Romans had plenty of openly practicing homosexuals - and they built empires based on military conquest. I guess having gays not only didn't weaken their military, it was often claimed that it made their military uniquely effective.

    But we don't have to go so far back. We can stick to the present. Many militaries in the world have openly gay people in them. And they are not incompetent militaries... like for example Israel! Gays are allowed to openly serve in the Israeli forces, including elite special forces. Hmm. Doesn't seem to weaken the Israeli military.

    But our military can't have openly gay people - no sir, the rednecks wouldn't stand for it! It didn't weaken any military in history past or present, but our military would be weakened. Funny, this is exactly the argument that was used against blacks in the military - their fellow soldiers would not stand for it. One presidential order later, and all of a sudden, they are serving just fine. Hmm.

    Fact is, that there are no rational arguments for the bigotry and discrimination against gays in the military. Any opposition is based on ignorance and bigotry, pure and simple. And it is a disgrace.

    One day, it will be as blindingly obvious that it is wrong to discriminate IN ANY WAY WHATSOEVER against gays, as it is obvious that slavery was wrong. For now, the ignorant and bigoted, will continue to display their evil, and gay people will continue to suffer. For now.

    Oh, and btw. I'm a straight white male, married. I just happen to believe that nobody is free until all are free. Fight bigotry wherever you see it.
     
  24. Doctor Q Administrator

    Doctor Q

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    #24
    Note: A forum member with insufficient posts to use the "Politics, Religion, Social Issues" forum was somehow able to post here. This is a glitch in the forum system or settings and we will try to correct it.

    It is not that member's fault that the forum software wasn't automatically enforcing the rule.

    The posts by that member, and quotes and responses to those posts, have been removed from this thread.
     
  25. Abstract macrumors Penryn

    Abstract

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    I didn't say that gay men shouldn't be in the army because they can't handle the job. I said that it's because of the type of environment the army is. Did you read my posts?

    A testosterone filled place surrounded by aggressive men who all train to be tough. My friend was a Captain in the Canadian army, and he told me a lot of things these people talked about "for fun", and it's not pretty. :eek: Many people in the army aren't exactly "tolerant" of gay people. It's already tough being in the army as a straight guy, but being singled out for being a homo makes it infinitely tougher.

    I'll say it again: I realize that by walking down the street, some homo-hating retard can try to do something stupid to you. There's always a chance of this happening, but of course you go about your day and do your business anyway, as do I. However, the intolerant environment that the army is makes it even less safe. According to my friend, it depending on the number of idiots you're surrounded by, which is actually related to the number of people who were born and raised in the sticks. :eek: Being at uni, I have a lot of Australian friends who were born in small towns and farm areas, and the number of people I've met who hate gay people would astonish you if you're from a big city.

    If the army is partly about camaraderie, gay people will have a much harder time finding it in the army than a civilian would in the workplace or elsewhere. In the workplace, someone who works with you isn't going to start doing really horrid things to you and your stuff while you're sitting there. Why? Because doing that sort of thing is highly discouraged. There are serious repercussions regarding this sort of thing (for the idiot and the company you work for). There's also the fear of being fired. In the army, they'd just turn a blind eye on a few pranks, especially if they know you're gay. The things they do to people in their sleep is pretty crazy stuff (and rather harsh). If you're gay, and they find out, you'd have to sleep with one eye open, even in your own bed.

    So yes, I think that a Don't Ask, Don't Tell policy is better, because it's better if nobody knew. By not knowing, everyone is going to be focused on their task and not the homo marching behind me.

    Thanks. :)
     

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