article re: m$ and apple

mischief

macrumors 68030
Aug 1, 2001
2,920
0
Santa Cruz Ca
This ought to freak a few people out:

So what if AOL/TW buys Apple and IBM buys AMD?

Then a merger between AOL/TW, IBM and Sony!

M$ would go like: Zap! Poof! no more M$.

More likely Apple will dump IE for something Exciting New and Different.:p
 

teabgs

macrumors 68030
Jan 18, 2002
2,853
0
behind you
Screw Microsoft

Personally I try not to EVER use microsoft proucts. Yes if they stopped supporting mac there would besoem people that may not want to get macs but thats ok cause I dont want inferior people using a superior computer. That said I really dont think they'll stop support for mac, cause of apple's increasing market share. Only time can truly tell but regadless Apple isnt going away, and no microsoft products arent a big deal. Apple makes better products anyway, and if they wanted to could make appleworks (which I use) a he** of a lot better then office has ever been. I hope when the agreement runs out apple stops shipping comuters w/ IE on them. Thatd be great, and the way its suppossed to be.
 

Nipsy

macrumors 65816
Jan 19, 2002
1,009
0
Re: what is Office good for?

Originally posted by lewdvig
File formats that everyone can open. Thats it I'm affraid.
.pdf, .rtf, .txt, .html, .wml, .jpg, .gif, .png, .swf, .mp3 .etc.

M$ formats are proprietary, and less 'open' than others. If M$ were not to support the Mac, and the Mac world unites with the Linux & UNIX communities, there could be some serious issues for The Beast.

Flash apps could replace PowerPoint (on Mac, *NIX, Linux, and PC), if Flash developed a simple presentation mode. Many open spreadsheets would need to be standardized to work with .csv to maintian function integrity. But Word could be redundant. Everyone in the computing world can open PDF, html, and txt free of charge, most can render html, txt, or PDF free of charge. Those that need spatial kerning and all that hoopla that makes Word so expensive can buy Acrobat (not Reader) for less than Word.

The agrument that we should keep Office so that 'everyone can open' files is truly shallow. Only Mac or PC users who OWN a copy of Office enjoy this luxury. If we could step away from our reliance on Office, files could become truly OS independent. I can't think of an OS that can't open an mp3, but I can think of many that can't open a .ppt.
 

lewdvig

macrumors 65816
Jan 1, 2002
1,404
57
South Pole
Staroffice is free you knucklehead!

I did not mean everyone in the Karl Marx sense, I meant everyone that has a job. The point was, those proprietary file formats that everyone depends on are the only things that makes Office necessary. It sucks, but we need it.

Besides, MS Office is free if you look hard enough ;^)
 

Taft

macrumors 65816
Jan 31, 2002
1,319
0
Chicago
Tech TV on MS and Apple.

I was just watching the Screensavers on Tech TV and they ran a bit on the MS/Apple deal running out. It was entitled "Does Apple need Microsoft?"

Leo's opinion was that they did not. He said (and I'm paraphrasing here--its close to a quote but I might have screwed it up--I'm no reporter!!), "I think its time to get Microsoft off the Apple/Mac platform."

I say, if they can do it without losing people without Office and IE, then do it. I'm just not sure they'll make it.

Matthew
 

Rower_CPU

Moderator emeritus
Oct 5, 2001
11,219
0
San Diego, CA
I would drop IE and Office in a heartbeat...if I didn't work in an environment where the majority use PCs and where I have to design webpages that look right on any browser. That's the main problem: MS is so entrenched in the computing world that we are no-where near the point where Apple could make a clean break with them.
Once less than 10% of web surfers use IE and .docs .xls and .ppt (gotta love those PC file extensions) files aren't the standard anymore, then we can see other viable alternatives come into play.
 

Nipsy

macrumors 65816
Jan 19, 2002
1,009
0
Re: Staroffice is free you knucklehead!

Originally posted by lewdvig
I did not mean everyone in the Karl Marx sense, I meant everyone that has a job. The point was, those proprietary file formats that everyone depends on are the only things that makes Office necessary. It sucks, but we need it.

Besides, MS Office is free if you look hard enough ;^)
Very true...the reliance on Office is part of the M$ momentum. When I was part of the start up craze in 1999, every developer (60 of us) had a copy of Office.

Now developers write code, and email the project managers. We didn't need Office for our jobs, but all of us had it because silly management types couldn't e-mail a memo, they had to e-mail a description of a memo sent as a .doc attachment. This sort of overkill lines the M$ pockets, and furthers the groundswell of The Beast. This is a small part of why a host of over-capitalized dot.coms with good, viable, ideas are gone, and M$ is bigger than ever.

I hate people who send an e-mail that says 'memo attached'. First thought is VIRUS, second thought is great, now I have to open Word. Sadly, most people don't live by KISS pricipia.

Star Office is ALMOST ready...but not quite, but the main point I want to try to get across is this:

Use apps for their intended purposes. Most people don't word process, they type notes, e-mails, memos, etc. M$ would like you to use Word as 'your default e-mail editor', your HTML coder, etc. This is classic The Beast behaivior, and why we 'think' we are so reliant on Office.

Sure, Office has its place, but most people don't need Office, or its propritary nature, to be just as effective. I can (and do) pretty much every Office like thing I need to do in AppleWorks, and when I am using Office, I output everything to PDF (thanks Quartz!), and try never to use the M$ propreitary formats...*NIX geeks hate them.
 

jvaska

macrumors 6502
Original poster
Feb 18, 2002
432
18
Haiti/NYC
Re: Tech TV on MS and Apple.

Originally posted by mrtrumbe
I was just watching the Screensavers on Tech TV and they ran a bit on the MS/Apple deal running out. It was entitled "Does Apple need Microsoft?"

I say, if they can do it without losing people without Office and IE, then do it. I'm just not sure they'll make it.

Matthew
yes...but there's something more sinister here...the microsoft satellite and cable deals...and owning and controlling large quantities of subscribership to dsl and the likes...comcast was probably partly a coverup...and the SEC hasn't done much yet that we've heard of...

in seattle...they CONTROL the internet connections for anybody with qwest (the major phone carrier here)...THEY WILL NOT SUPPORT MACS ON THEIR NETWORK...not at all...they just won't work and they tell people with macs they can't support them...

this is disturbing to say the least...i don't think we know just how much m$ owns of these networks yet...but i fear it could be substantial...and i know they are still buying companies left and right...ugh...
 

jvaska

macrumors 6502
Original poster
Feb 18, 2002
432
18
Haiti/NYC
it is concerning...

DoJ to Review AT&T-Comcast Merger

http://dc.internet.com/news/article/0,,2101_979581,00.html

The Department of Justice has begun a review of the AT&T-Comcast (Microsoft) merger, precluding Federal Trade Commission (FTC) involvement in the proposed $40 billion deal that would create the nation's largest broadband provider with 22 million subscribers in eight of the nation's 10 largest markets. Under the Byzantine federal rules of merger approvals, either the FTC or the Department of Justice, but not both, review pending deals.

...Chester added that the merger review will now be in the hands of a "politically appointed official who has shown, in the Microsoft case, that DOJ is unwilling to develop serious policy approaches to ensure open and competitive digital markets."

...She said that if the merger is approved, more consolidation is likely to follow. "The niche players (AOL?) are going to have a hard time surviving," she said.
 

mischief

macrumors 68030
Aug 1, 2001
2,920
0
Santa Cruz Ca
I've been saying it for 2 months.

M$ now has control of most of the home-access, either directly or indirectly. TCI Cable owned most of the fibre and ALL of the satellites used by Cable TV companies when it merged with AT&T who owned most of the long-haul cable used by Telecoms here in the USA. Now M$ owns them through Comcast and they've already started their Mac witch-hunt in Seattle. Who's next?
 

krossfyter

macrumors 601
Jan 13, 2002
4,297
0
secret city
Re: Re: Tech TV on MS and Apple.

Originally posted by jvaska


yes...but there's something more sinister here...the microsoft satellite and cable deals...and owning and controlling large quantities of subscribership to dsl and the likes...comcast was probably partly a coverup...and the SEC hasn't done much yet that we've heard of...

in seattle...they CONTROL the internet connections for anybody with qwest (the major phone carrier here)...THEY WILL NOT SUPPORT MACS ON THEIR NETWORK...not at all...they just won't work and they tell people with macs they can't support them...

this is disturbing to say the least...i don't think we know just how much m$ owns of these networks yet...but i fear it could be substantial...and i know they are still buying companies left and right...ugh...

someone needs to knock the hell outa these bastards.
 

Nipsy

macrumors 65816
Jan 19, 2002
1,009
0
Re: I've been saying it for 2 months.

Originally posted by mischief
M$ now has control of most of the home-access, either directly or indirectly. TCI Cable owned most of the fibre and ALL of the satellites used by Cable TV companies when it merged with AT&T who owned most of the long-haul cable used by Telecoms here in the USA. Now M$ owns them through Comcast and they've already started their Mac witch-hunt in Seattle. Who's next?
Just do what I do...when you call the teir one tech support weenie, and when he says "What OS are you using", say Irix, then Solaris, then OS/2, then FreeBSD with the Aqua window Manager. Teir one tech support weenie will think these are the names of clone manufacturers, and ask 'But what version of Windows are you using'. You then say 'Windows? What's that'.

This leads to tier two tech support ego-weenie. When he asks which version of Windows you're using, say 'Whichever is your favorite'. Explain that it doesn't matter, because all your want are the important numbers. Then ask for relevant information like DNS servers, your gateway, etc. Write the s h i t down, and set it up.

There is nothing a UNIX machine can't talk to (and yes folks, that's what our Macs are). When a company tells you they don't support Apple, tell 'em "Fine, I'll support my Apple, and you keep you infrastructure up and running". Then run "uptime" in the terminal, and smile!
 

mischief

macrumors 68030
Aug 1, 2001
2,920
0
Santa Cruz Ca
one small problem with the obvious..........

They're switching the feeds over to .Net. Kinda like M$ doing their best AOL imitation but with their usual jackbooted poise and grace.

So you may be able to connect but it's likely you wouldn't be able to use what you get.
 

Nipsy

macrumors 65816
Jan 19, 2002
1,009
0
Re: one small problem with the obvious..........

Originally posted by mischief
They're switching the feeds over to .Net. Kinda like M$ doing their best AOL imitation but with their usual jackbooted poise and grace.

So you may be able to connect but it's likely you wouldn't be able to use what you get.
Is one of .nets 'undocumented features' a 'service' other than TCP/IP? I sure hope not...

I had a simlar problem setting up a friend's DSL recently, where the tiny ISP only supported Windows. They informed me that a Mac couldn't work with their service! Asked what kind of servers they ran, was told Solaris. Told 'em, my pretty GUIed UNIX box can talk to your ugly GUIed UNIX box. That got me an engineer who was smart enough to skip the marketing mumbo jumbo and get the connection up.

Let's hope M$ doesn't cripple the web (which is run primarily on UNIXs of all flavors) by eliminating first non M$ clients, and then non M$ servers.
 
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