As a Trump voter, I do not support Republican Healthcare plan.

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by DearthnVader, Mar 21, 2017.

  1. DearthnVader macrumors 6502

    DearthnVader

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    #1
    I'm not a fan of Obama care, in the sense that I do not agree with forcing people to buy a product from a private, for profit, company, and no I do not think mandatory auto insurance is in line with a free society either.

    People have the right to travel, and the public roads are just that, public. No one forces you to put your property at risk, by putting your car on the public roads. It shouldn't be anyone else's responsibility to insure your property. I lived in Tennessee. for years, before they had mediatory insurance laws, if you had an accident, and you were at fault, and had no insurance, the other persons insurance company would pay to fix their car, and you would set up a payment plan to repay the insurance company, actual cost of repair, or injury. If you didn't pay, the insurance company would sue you.

    It worked just fine.

    Trump campaigned on repealing Obamacare, so that was expected, but he also said that there would be negotiations between the Government and prescription drug companies on price, and the ability to buy insurance across state lines. Two things that don't seem to be in the Republican bill.

    Costs are out of control, I don't see anything in the Republican bill to address this.

    Moreover, I don't think it is right to profit off the suffering of others. Private companies, by their very nature seek to maximize profit, that's why we don't have a healthcare system that heals the sick, they don't cure things, they come up with more and more expensive ways to mask the symptoms.

    As much as I don't like it, their is only one real solution, and that is a government healthcare system, public doctors, clinics, and hospitals. Funded by a tax on working people, the same way medicare is, a deduction from your salary.

    I don't see myself as being a hypocrite on this issue, I feel that if the government is going to force you to buy something, than the government must provide it, not for profit.

    This is all just crazy, imagine if the government forced you to buy stock in Apple, rather than having a Social Security fund. It really just boggles my mind, everyone needs insurance, be it car insurance, health insurance, disability insurance, but to everyone can afford to pay the costs of it with private companies reaping windfall profits by forcing everyone into a broken system.
     
  2. DrewDaHilp1, Mar 21, 2017
    Last edited: Mar 21, 2017

    DrewDaHilp1 macrumors 6502a

    DrewDaHilp1

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    #2
    It wasn't only Trump. Republicans have been running on repealing Obamacare since it passed. I'll have to disagree with it's the role of government to provide health insurance through taxation of others.
     
  3. BoxerGT2.5 macrumors 68000

    BoxerGT2.5

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    #3
    Do you believe the projections that medicare will become insolvent by 2028?
     
  4. DearthnVader thread starter macrumors 6502

    DearthnVader

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    #4
    So you think it is morally justifiable to maximize profit off the suffering of others?

    That government has no role in the general welfare, that sick people should just suffer if they can't afford insurance, lose everything they have, and die in pain?
     
  5. Huntn macrumors G5

    Huntn

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    #5
    My opinion is that when it functions properly, the Federal government is all average citizens have to avoid being rolled over by large multinational corporations.
     
  6. DrewDaHilp1 macrumors 6502a

    DrewDaHilp1

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    #6
    I believe that people that provide a service should be compensated for services delivered.
     
  7. citizenzen, Mar 21, 2017
    Last edited: Mar 21, 2017

    citizenzen macrumors 65816

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    #7
    He also promised to replace it with something better. It's impossible to argue that kicking 24 million people off of health insurance is better.

    The recent development that has me scratching my head are the recently proposed revisions that are intended to garner more votes for the bill. One of the provisions allows states to kick off "able bodied" people who don't work off of Medicaid ... which I find highly questionable.

    For one, what is the definition of "able-bodied" and who is going to be responsible for determining who among the tens of millions of medicaid enrollees fit that definition? What if someone is able-bodied but not able-minded? How do we determine the difference between someone being lazy versus depressed or otherwise mentally incapable? This provision is bound to kick off even more people out of the healthcare rolls ... the exact opposite of what this country needs to do.
     
  8. mac_in_tosh macrumors regular

    mac_in_tosh

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    #8
    That pledge seemed to evaporate following his meeting with drug company CEO's.
     
  9. BoxerGT2.5 macrumors 68000

    BoxerGT2.5

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    #9
    That is the hard line conservative view. Sink or swim b!tch! If you're poor and sick, well you got dealt a sh!tty hand my friend, see you on the other side.
     
  10. DrewDaHilp1 macrumors 6502a

    DrewDaHilp1

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    #10
    I disagree with the whole corporations are people too decisions.
     
  11. DearthnVader thread starter macrumors 6502

    DearthnVader

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    #11
    Everything is based on growth, government has been shipping US economic growth overseas for decades, and the healthcare industry has been maximizing profits, based on treating the symptoms, rather than the cause of illness.

    Costs are out of control.
     
  12. BoxerGT2.5 macrumors 68000

    BoxerGT2.5

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    #12
    Be that as it may, but it doesn't answer my question. Do you believe medicare will become insolvent by 2028? I agree with you on your OP.
     
  13. Huntn macrumors G5

    Huntn

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    #13
    Me too. All the citizens who make up a corporation get a vote. The Corporation should not be gifted extra influence by means of it's corporate wealth, controlled by a single or small group of people in control. This was a huge failure of SCOTUS.
     
  14. yaxomoxay macrumors 68000

    yaxomoxay

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    #14
    I am with you on this, as I said already in other threads. This half and half that the US system tries to push is so stupid I can't even believe it.
    I don't see the middle ground here: 100% private insurance market (that is, the gov't can't say **** about it), or 100% public healthcare (maybe adapted to our federal system).
     
  15. DearthnVader thread starter macrumors 6502

    DearthnVader

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    #15
    It's imposable to know, we don't know if the economy will grow, or the government will raise tax rates, or god forbid people get off their ass and get some exercise, stop eating the junk that is our food processed supply, or the healthcare industry will start treating curing disease, rather than treating the symptoms.
    --- Post Merged, Mar 21, 2017 ---
    Everyone is invited to take part in our democracy, it's not the corporations fault that the people we elect sell us out to the companies that contribute to their reelection efforts. It's our fault for continuing to elect the same people and parties that sell us out.

    Everyone thinks Congress is corrupt, but no one thinks "their" congress person is corrupt. We keep electing the same people, over and over, and expecting a different result.

    We want rich people, and the corporations they own to spend their profits.
     
  16. DrewDaHilp1 macrumors 6502a

    DrewDaHilp1

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    It's messed up for a multitude of reasons. Government setting rates based on patient satisfaction scores, readmission rates(regardless if the patient follows discharge instructions or follow up appointments)(keeping rates artificially/unrealistically low), there being a third party intermediary(insurance) between the healthcare providers and the patient. Government saying you can't refuse patients in the ED(personal aec, even though they don't need to be there. Government regulating how many medical residencies are allowed(stunting supply, raising costs).
     
  17. BoxerGT2.5 macrumors 68000

    BoxerGT2.5

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    #17
    Is there a reason you think it's so "easy" to cure disease?

    Regardless, one of the reasons why people are hesitant to hand the US government the keys to their healthcare is because people hear how SS and Medicare will become insolvent by 20XX. I hear it all the time when some 80yr old looks at me living on SS and proclaims she's lucky to have it and it's a shame that I probably won't ever see it. Government has the real possibility to "**** **** up" beyond all recognition. Look at the pension issue in IL, the only fix here is bankruptcy. That scares people off from the idea of government run healthcare.
     
  18. jkcerda macrumors 6502

    jkcerda

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  19. mac_in_tosh macrumors regular

    mac_in_tosh

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    #19
    Just curious, is it because they are private that you object or do you just object to being forced to buy insurance?
     
  20. DrewDaHilp1 macrumors 6502a

    DrewDaHilp1

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    #20
    That's not the only fix. They could always seize IRA's. After all it's good for the people and more fair. :/
     
  21. mac_in_tosh macrumors regular

    mac_in_tosh

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    #21
    If someone chooses not to buy insurance and then gets sick or in an accident they will not be turned away from the hospital so in effect everyone else is subsidizing him through higher insurance premiums. There is in effect a mandate on people who buy insurance to support those who chose not to.
     
  22. jkcerda macrumors 6502

    jkcerda

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    #22
    the mandate did NOT lower insurance, my premiums went up, hell the freaking out of pocket cost in the ACA were about TRIPLE what mine were.
     
  23. DearthnVader, Mar 21, 2017
    Last edited: Mar 21, 2017

    DearthnVader thread starter macrumors 6502

    DearthnVader

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    #23
    As much as I hate government power, I just don't see any solution to skyrocketing costs, other than a rich, robust public healthcare system.

    We still need a rich, robust private system, for those that can afford it, because that is what paves the way for medical advancement, and government is not an efficient way of driving advancement.

    People freaked out about, death panels, but the truth of the matter is, we spend far too much of our public healthcare money on treatments for people that do not necessarily improve their quality of life, or even prolong it to any meaningful amount of time. Why should we replace the hip, of someone that may never walk, or even get out of bed again. It's a sad fact of reality, that at some point we are just prolonging suffering, oft time with public funds. Someone has to make the hard choices, where is money better spent, in prolonging the life of an 80 year old, or a three year old.

    That is the reality we face, we all die, those of us that are lucky live to see our grandchildren. Those that can afford the medical procedures they may need to prolong their life a few years should be the one's willing to foot the bill.

    We can't save everyone, that's a job for Jesus, but we can spend our public healthcare money in ways that are more conducive to a healthier society, rather than spending it to prolong the life of someone who has already lived a full life, mostly because they don't have to pay for it, or are just flat out afraid to die, yet they are going to die regardless of how much money is spent.
     
  24. juanm macrumors 65816

    juanm

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    #24
    What happened when none of the cars involved in a crash had insurance?
     
  25. DearthnVader thread starter macrumors 6502

    DearthnVader

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    #25
    Whoever was at fault was still fiscally liable to pay, they just didn't throw them in jail, maybe costing them their job, and thus ability to pay, in the process.

    We should all have insurance, but the truth is some people, at a given point in time, can't afford it. These people are still going to drive, even if you threaten their freedom, mostly because America is reliant on a personal auto culture.

    Try to hold a good job, without your own personal auto anywhere outside of a major city in the US.

    As I say, the public roads are public, we all assume risk when we decide to use them. If I have the money to buy insurance, and I chose not to protect myself with uninsured motorist insurance, I have only myself to blame, because I knew the risk, when I chose to put myself in harms way, on a public thoroughfare.

    That having been said, I don't have a problem with Government taxing auto fuel, to pay for liability insurance for all. I have a problem with government mandating everyone who drives, regardless of economic circumstances, pay profit to a private company.
     

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