As usual - the electoral college makes most votes worthless...

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by s2mikey, Nov 7, 2016.

  1. s2mikey macrumors 68020

    s2mikey

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2013
    Location:
    Upstate, NY
    #1
    I cannot believe we are still using the completely antiquated and absurd electoral college system when we are *quite* capable of going to a very simple, yet effective popular vote. It renders most votes in states that always go one way useless. Im in NYS and therefore Ill be staying home because this state is 100% pure blue and there isnt a damned thing us upstaters can do to fight against 15 million communist NYC residents. Its the same thing for red states - any democrats in those states may as well save the trouble.

    Your vote does NOT count unless you are in Ohio, Florida and maybe a few other swing states. What a joke.

    Get reayd for 8 years of the Wicked Witch. :)
     
  2. samcraig macrumors P6

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2009
    #2
    Using that as an excuse is quite lame in my opinion. Vote. If you don't understand why it's important - then you understand very little. Sad that you think it's better to just stay at home.

    Especially if you plan on complaining over the next 4/8 years.
     
  3. txa1265 macrumors 6502a

    txa1265

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2002
    Location:
    Corning, NY
    #3
    Communists? Ugh. Yeah, stay home.

    Silence = approval.

    Also - in my part of upstate we have significant red state constituency, so it is REALLY important to get out the vote to help balance the state assembly and the people going to the house of representatives (since Senate is more or less a lock).
     
  4. aaronvan Suspended

    aaronvan

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2011
    Location:
    República Cascadia
    #4
    Meh. The Electoral College works just fine. If we didn't have it, presidential candidates would concentrate only on FL, CA, NY, TX, and IL and ignore the other 45 states.
     
  5. cube macrumors G5

    Joined:
    May 10, 2004
    #5
    It is not the EC's fault. It is states making votes worthless.
     
  6. yaxomoxay macrumors 68000

    yaxomoxay

    Joined:
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    Location:
    Texas
    #6
    The EC works fine.
     
  7. zhenya macrumors 603

    zhenya

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2005
    #7
    Unfortunately for you we live in a constitutional representative democracy.
     
  8. JackieInCo macrumors 601

    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2013
    Location:
    Colorado
    #8
    The system works and your vote does count. I realized this this past week when I saw Trump come back To colorado so many times trying to sway voters in his direction. In the past, I felt the same way the OP does but this election, I have really come to believe individual votes do count.
     
  9. AlliFlowers Contributor

    AlliFlowers

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2011
    Location:
    L.A. (Lower Alabama)
    #9
    Just listen to Obama talk about winning several precincts by 4 votes. Every vote does count.
     
  10. mrkramer macrumors 603

    mrkramer

    Joined:
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    Location:
    Somewhere
    #10
    Just don't complain when things don't go your way. And ignore the fact that there are a lot more races besides the presidential one that will have a much bigger effect on you.
     
  11. MacAndMic macrumors 6502

    Joined:
    Jun 4, 2009
    #11
    Don't let anyone or any reason stop you from voting. Period!

    Not 8 years, maybe 4. I just don't see her living that long or at the very least, maintaining her facilities. She could barely handle campaigning. Everyone knows what the stress of being president does to a person's health.
     
  12. rdowns macrumors Penryn

    rdowns

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2003
    #12

    "Communist NYC residents"? No wonder upstaters have the reputation they do. (@LizKat excepted)
     
  13. Herdfan macrumors 6502

    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2011
    #13
    Can you explain a bit more?

    Yes, but I think it could use a couple of tweaks. Think if all states used the ME/NE model where the winner of the state got the 2 "Senators" vote, but the winner of each CD got that vote? Would make candidates campaign all over the country and not just the swing states.
     
  14. vrDrew, Nov 7, 2016
    Last edited: Nov 7, 2016

    vrDrew macrumors 65816

    Joined:
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    Location:
    Midlife, Midwest
    #14
    Every vote counts. Even if you are in a solidly "Blue" state like Massachusetts or California.

    Why? It's not just the President we are electing tomorrow. But in the meantime, enjoy Chris Pine, Joss Whedon and a few others illustrate what its been like having a Republican-controlled Congress the last few years.

     
  15. jerwin macrumors 65816

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2015
    #15
    [​IMG]
     
  16. txa1265 macrumors 6502a

    txa1265

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2002
    Location:
    Corning, NY
    #16
    Hey - there are the Corning and Ithaca areas ... :)
     
  17. cube macrumors G5

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    May 10, 2004
    #17
    Winner-takes-all, gerrymandering and maybe some other tricks used to keep power.
     
  18. appleisking macrumors 6502a

    Joined:
    May 24, 2013
    #18
    Lol bro have you ever been to New York. There's nine million people first of all second we are as capitalist as you can get.
    --- Post Merged, Nov 7, 2016 ---
    I think assigning votes proportionally in the electoral college would work better as opposed to winner take all.
     
  19. mrkramer macrumors 603

    mrkramer

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    #19
    Gerrymandering would make it so the race wasn't competitive. The last several elections have seen more votes for democratic house candidates than Republican candidates yet the Republicans come out with historically large majorities. At least with the current system usually the winner of the popular vote is the overall winner, with it going by congressional district you would have the popular vote going to the Democrat and the EC going to the Republican every time. And if the Republicans got a narrow win in the popular vote it would look like a landslide in the EC even if it was only a win by a couple hundred in the popular vote.
     
  20. MarkusL macrumors 6502

    Joined:
    Jun 1, 2014
    #20
    Okay, but let me ask you this:

    If communism is so bad, why do the NYC residents live and work in skyscrapers while the upstaters live in huts and barns? :)
     
  21. rdowns macrumors Penryn

    rdowns

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2003
    #21
    If NY is so blue, explain George Pataki. If NYC is so blue, explain Giuliani and Bloomberg.
     
  22. mobilehaathi macrumors G3

    mobilehaathi

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    Location:
    The Anthropocene
    #22
    Especially all those evil commie pinkos over at Goldman Sachs, JPMorgan Chase, Bank of America, Morgan Stanley, Citigroup, Blackstone Group, Warburg Pincus, Blackstone Group, Kohlberg Kravis Roberts, et alia.
     
  23. bent christian Suspended

    bent christian

    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2015
    #23
    A couple of things you don't seem to understand:

    • Presidential candidates are not the only ones on the ballot tomorrow.

    • The Electoral College only governs presidential elections.
     
  24. MarkusL macrumors 6502

    Joined:
    Jun 1, 2014
    #24
    Charisma!

    [​IMG]
     
  25. jerwin, Nov 7, 2016
    Last edited: Nov 7, 2016

    jerwin macrumors 65816

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2015
    #25
    Several things come to mind.

    The original conception of the constitution was based on the idea that governmental authority was best divided so that no one faction could leverage temporary political power into tyrannical authority. Thus power was divided into executive, judicial, and legislative spheres, and the boundaries between those spheres was made somewhat porous, so as to guard against the possibility that absolute control one of these spheres of authority could be leveraged against the other two.

    To guard against the possibility that the complete apparatus of government could be captured in one fell swoop, senators, representatives, and Judges would owe their position to various entities-- the judges to former presidents and senates, the senators, to state legislatures-- two thirds of which were acting according to the political whims fashionable two and four years ago, the president to the rather temporary electoral college, and the representatives, to the popular will of the moment. Thus, they would all have a motivation to use political power cooperatively. That was the theory, anyway.

    The people of each state popularly elect Senators now, which I suppose limits their exposure to the whims of state legislators. But don't worry, these state legislators can still put their thumb on the scales, and establish gerrymandered districts. This means that the Senate changes control rather more frequently than the House...

    We must remember that the constitution is an hypothesis, constructed before the experiment. The people who wrote and defended the Constitution were not able to pore over 229 years of experimental data. They had only a few decades of colonial data (not necessarily well suited for running an independent nation), and spotty, opinionated, expurgated, and perhaps even mistranslated accounts of the classical era.

    I think the President needs to owe her allegiance to the great mass of people in America, and not to more narrow interests. But dividing up the electoral votes by district invites state legislatures to gerrymander ever more assiduously, so as to determine future presidential elections. This would have the effect of preselecting presidents not on the politics of the moment, but on the politics of the year after the last census.

    As for the effect on presidential campaigns-- the campaigns choose their strategy to exploit the rules of the moment. The focus on swing states is an example of this sort of exploitation. Any new "rules" need to be written with the caveat that they too will be exploited, perhaps grotesquely, and not necessarily in the spirit in which they were written.
     

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