Atheists Sue to Block Display of Cross-Shaped Beam in 9/11 Museum

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by OutThere, Jul 29, 2011.

  1. OutThere macrumors 603

    OutThere

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    #1
    http://www.nytimes.com/2011/07/29/n...splay-of-cross-shaped-beam-in-911-museum.html

    I agree with this guy (from the article):

    I think it would be unacceptable to erect it as some sort of shrine or holy object at the memorial, though I can see it being a relic of historical significance if it's properly displayed.
     
  2. dscuber9000 macrumors 6502a

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    #2
    I just think it is dumb. I mean, your symbol is a freaking "t". If there were beams found that made a Star of David, then maybe we'd be onto something. :p
     
  3. Elven macrumors 6502a

    Elven

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    #3
    It annoys me how one person believes on thing, another believes another, yet we cannot co-exist we must fight, which many times proves to be directly in opposition of each persons religious scripts.

    Thats my 2p for this impending threadnaught.
     
  4. Lord Blackadder macrumors G5

    Lord Blackadder

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    #4
    It could be presented as an artifact that gained significance through the events of 9/11 - but it should not be allowed to turn the 9/11 museum into a Christian chapel.

    I think one of the (literally) big problems with this artifact is its size - it is so large that it may physically dominate the portion of the museum it is housed in, and thus dominate the visitor's experience. For Christians this could be a positive experience, but not necessarily a fair representation of the event, and non-Christians may find it jarring and presenting a skewed picture of 9/11. The challenge will be to display it in such a fashion that it can be appreciated in its proper context without exerting undue influence.
     
  5. LarryC macrumors 6502

    LarryC

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    #5
    I wonder why we don't hear of complaints about the U.S. government rebuilding mosques around the world. If you want to say that our tax dollars not be used for things that are religious in nature, then fine, but please be consistent in that stand or position. It seems that there is only a problem when it is something to do with Christianity. I feel the exact same way about the people like Cindy Sheehan and the anti-war protestors. President Obama has pretty much followed what President Bush did as far as the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq, but where is Cindy and her anti-war protestors now? There is an excellent article called the Separation of Mosque and State at this link. It tells how much money our government has spent on Mosque restorations around the globe in the last few years.
     
  6. rdowns macrumors Penryn

    rdowns

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    #6
    This is one of those times where I'd like to tell the atheists to shut the **** up.
     
  7. kavika411 macrumors 6502a

    kavika411

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    #7
    Well said. I agree completely. If the size of the cross beam causes it to shift from a 9/11 artifact, so to speak, to more of a chapel-type icon, they should not use it.
     
  8. freeny macrumors 68020

    freeny

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    #8
    $20 says that if there were beams bent into the shape of an Islamic symbol also found at the site and placed in the museum people would be marching in the streets... But as we all know, only Christians died in the attack, so it's only hypothetical.
     
  9. mscriv macrumors 601

    mscriv

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    #9
    I do find this pretty ridiculous. The article states:

    The artifact is a section of cross beam that was in the rubble at the attack site. It wasn't purposefully manufactured by Christians with an agenda in mind. I'm sure the museum would also seek to display any other actual artifacts from the site that people found to be of spiritual significance or comfort. The intent of it's display is not to promote or to deny the representation of any specific faith. It's to accurately and faithfully display the facts of what occurred.

    I mean seriously... are you kidding me:

    As a mental health professional I will tell you that my concern with the above statement would be the state of mind of any individual who would project and personalize mental and physical injury from any such display. Are people of faith who don't believe in evolution caused pain and anguish by any museum or science center across the country that displays Darwinian artifacts or representation? Of course not and this lawsuits assertion is just as silly.

    Why can't we just let history be history instead of attempting to sanitize it or make it politically correct?
     
  10. (marc) macrumors 6502a

    (marc)

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    #10
    Good. That museum has nothing to do with Christianity.

    :rolleyes:
     
  11. Mr Kram macrumors 68000

    Mr Kram

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    #11
    i read that the "cross" was blessed by several holy men of distinction. that would imply to me that it is more than just a "t" shaped object.
     
  12. mscriv macrumors 601

    mscriv

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    #12
    Such venom and all around ignorance being displayed here by some.

    Do you really think a government owned museum is seeking to proselytize? That artifact is no different from Nazi or Jewish artifacts in a WWII museum section or Native American artifacts depicting the spirituality of their culture. The only "agenda" of a museum is to provide items for observation and study that are historically accurate.

    The display of this cross doesn't say that only Christians died on 9/11 or that you should seek out a priest for confession. What is says is that this event was so horrific that some Americans were comforted by a piece of the rubble that happened to coincide with a religious symbol. Whether you personally agree or whether you like it or not it's an accurate reflection of how some of the people in New York dealt with the grief and pain of this tragedy.
     
  13. CorvusCamenarum macrumors 65816

    CorvusCamenarum

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    #13
    I wonder if these people also get offended every time they see a church, temple, or mosque on a street corner.

    Because that might hurt some people's feeeeeelings, and you know we can't have that in this day and age.
     
  14. iJohnHenry macrumors P6

    iJohnHenry

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    #14
    Amazing that they found a beam junction that is not warped or twisted, and has perfectly square ends and proportions.

    Wonder what it's function was in the building? :rolleyes:
     
  15. MyDesktopBroke macrumors 6502

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    #15
    This is stupid. They didn't weld the pieces into a cross, it was found like that. If it had been constructed as a religious symbol they'd have something, but it wasn't. It's simply a coincidence.
     
  16. .Andy macrumors 68030

    .Andy

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    #16
    Of all the millions of pieces of steel they could have displayed why do you think this one was chosen and displayed like this?

    [​IMG]
     
  17. iJohnHenry macrumors P6

    iJohnHenry

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    #17
    Sure they did. That's how you achieve structural integrity.

    Which is more than the "discoverers" are displaying at the moment.
     
  18. 184550 Guest

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    #18
    It only has the significance one assigns to it. ;)

    What's that tell you about its critics?
     
  19. Lord Blackadder macrumors G5

    Lord Blackadder

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    #19
    The act of salvaging the object and displaying it in a museum implies that it has already been assigned a certain kind of significance - and that significance must be interpreted for visitors in such a way that it conveys meaning while also maintaining a proper context within the overarching theme of the museum (which is 9/11 as a historical event).

    Such critics are not a single monolithic group, and no single assessment or response can fairly cover all criticisms at once.
     
  20. 184550 Guest

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    #20
    The post under discussion concerns Atheists getting their panties in a bunch because a structure that they are attributing Christian symbolism to is going to be housed/ displayed in a museum, no?

    How is that not a 'single monolithic' group? They are opposing its inclusion/ display/ use for the same reason/ principle, correct?
     
  21. Ugg macrumors 68000

    Ugg

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    #21
    Exactly. The ones I remember the most were like truncated ladders reaching up from the ground. This piece was obviously chosen for its religious connotation. Pathetic.
     
  22. 184550 Guest

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    #22
    Nice to know that we've got an in house expert.
     
  23. iJohnHenry macrumors P6

    iJohnHenry

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    #23
    I'll go one step further, and say "fabricated", for chosen.

    There is no way in Hell, IMO, that this "exhibit" was not worked-on in some manner.

    That makes it propaganda in my eyes.
     
  24. skunk macrumors G4

    skunk

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    #24
    If this is it, it is quite obviously not being treated as a historical object. It is being used to command reverence, to commandeer the sentiment associated with 9/11, and is a far from appropriate display in a state-funded museum.

    Besides which, it is almost certainly bogus.
     
  25. samiwas Suspended

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    #25
    Wow. I'm not Christian, or even really religious at all, but I just don't see why some people can't let others be with their religion and let them celebrate it, without feeling like they are somehow being dragged into their beliefs.

    To me, this is a perfect piece to go on display. Whether or not I believe in its message, I think it's a really cool piece to discovered and heralded for what it is. Whether I believe in being saved by some invisible being in the clouds, a very large number of Americans do. This piece of metal helped comfort them on that day of terrible tragedy in their own way.

    Displaying it and explaining why it had a significance to so many Americans is fine (to me). Displaying it with a label saying "This piece of metal showed that the Lord Savior was there helping save believers from doom" and suggesting that people drop to their knees and pray right there is obviously not fine.

    I just don't understand the uproar over just having to SEE a piece that refers to a religion. I guess some people just have to be offended by things.
     

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