Atlanta educators sentenced to prison. Some say to harsh?

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by Menel, Apr 15, 2015.

  1. Menel macrumors 603

    Menel

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    #1
    http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-atlanta-teachers-sentence-deal-20150414-story.html#page=1

    Found guilty by jury. Apparently it was an easy, non-controversial finding.
    Though it sounds like several will appeal.
    The controversy is over severity of punishment.

    I say let them rot there. Abused their positions for personal gain, while sacrificing the futures of these kids. Many who are inner city and have a tough enough time as it is finding a successful future.
     
  2. jkcerda macrumors 6502

    jkcerda

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    #2
    jail is a bit much, at the same time it does send a message out.
     
  3. ucfgrad93 macrumors P6

    ucfgrad93

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    #3
    I have no problem with a jail sentence. However, I think 7 years is too much. Give them 3 years and revoke their teaching certificate so they can never teach again.
     
  4. Mousse macrumors 68000

    Mousse

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    #4
    I would see them pilloried and flogged.:mad:

    Sure there is little chance that these kids would amount to anything anyways. But there is always on in a thousand who manages to rise above the muck and become a productive member of society. I know what those kids are going through. I grew in poverty myself. If the teachers don't give a rat's derriere whether you succeed or not, it makes it that much hard to try.:mad::mad:

    Without the ability to read or write, they won't even qualify to flip burgers.:(
     
  5. HarryPot macrumors 6502a

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    #5
    I'm all for ruining these teachers professional life, but seven years in prison is way to much.

    The fact students aren't doing so well is not because of inflated test scores, but because of bad teachers overall.

    Just sack them and make sure they never get another job in a teaching position. And fine them for the amount of money they might have received extra for inflating scores, and then some more.

    I'm of the idea jail should be for criminals that commit serious crimes.
     
  6. webbuzz macrumors 65816

    webbuzz

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    #6
    They all should have taken the plea deals, two of them were smart enough to.
     
  7. Praxis91 macrumors regular

    Praxis91

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  8. vrDrew macrumors 65816

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    #8
    I think its ridiculous to send people to prison for years for what they did.

    This whole case needs to be viewed in the absurd regimen of constant standardized testing that infects our educational system. In many cases these teachers weren't doing this for personal gain, so much as to simply keep their jobs or their schools open. And in many cases, I think they got subtle encouragement to do "whatever it takes" to increase test scores.

    Keep in mind also that these teachers were in many cases working with extremely disadvantaged children. Kids from dysfunctional family and neighborhood situations. The chances of a kid doing well on a test, compared to kids from middle-class neighborhoods was minute.

    Granted: their actions were wrong. Strip them of their teaching certificates. Make them repay any bonuses.

    But this ought to send a wakeup call to the education system. Testing has its place - but you cannot "test" your way into providing a decent education for a child.
     
  9. VulchR macrumors 68020

    VulchR

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    #9
    They can teach prisoners while they're on the inside. Makes perfect sense to me.
     
  10. Mousse macrumors 68000

    Mousse

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    #10
    So sabotaging children's chance of improving their lot in life is not a serious enough crime for jail time? It's educators like them that has the US education system ranking below pretty much every other developed nation in the word.:mad: A teachers can't change the system, but they can do their part to improve a child's chances of success.

    If these inner city kid's chance of success in life is only 1% and a teacher who give him another 1% chance. They already doubled the opportunity at a brighter future. But those criminals in Atlanta not only not help improve the kids chance, the took away that small sliver of hope.:mad:

    They should do their time and be happy *I* wasn't on that jury. I would have had them publicly flogged. Sorry for the rant, but growing up in poverty, this hits close to home.
     
  11. Huntn macrumors G5

    Huntn

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    #11
    IMO prison is excessive for this crime. Their lives were ruined before they were REALLY ruined by turning them into felons. No good purpose is served.
     
  12. ucfgrad93 macrumors P6

    ucfgrad93

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    #12
    So no prison for them collecting bonuses etc based on the test scores that they cheated on?
     
  13. MrWillie, Apr 15, 2015
    Last edited: Apr 15, 2015

    MrWillie macrumors 65816

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    #13
    It just shows how broken our education system really is.



    One of your teachers ? It's too harsh, not to. :)
     
  14. Meister Suspended

    Meister

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    #14
    Most people on this forum are from the US.
    The US is the world-prison country.
    What are you people surprised about?

    [​IMG]

    Americans have a thing for locking up greasy, dirty men in small rooms for a long time and force them to shower together. :p
     
  15. webbuzz macrumors 65816

    webbuzz

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    #15
    Only two men were convicted, one took a plea deal. Beverly Hall (not pictured) died during the trial.

    [​IMG]
     
  16. Huntn macrumors G5

    Huntn

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    #16
    What kind of bonuses did they get and for how long? Levy a giant ass fine on them. Jailing them makes no sense.
     
  17. Meister Suspended

    Meister

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    #17
    90% of all inmates in the US are men.
     
  18. impulse462 Suspended

    impulse462

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    #18
    this is what happens when people only focus on tests
     
  19. webbuzz macrumors 65816

    webbuzz

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    #19
    Fair point. But, in this case it was mostly corrupt women. :eek:
     
  20. Menel, Apr 15, 2015
    Last edited: Apr 15, 2015

    Menel thread starter macrumors 603

    Menel

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    #20
    We send plenty of people to prison for preying on and exploiting children.

    ----------

    but when the kids did poorly, they were eligible for federal assistance programs.

    These teachers modified their tests so they looked like they were doing well, invalidating them for federal assistance programs, blocking their education, while collecting bonuses!
     
  21. Huntn macrumors G5

    Huntn

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    #21
    Preying on children- How did you come up with that? The school was put under pressure to improve scores but was unable to comply so they cheated. As I recall this (NCLB) was a unfunded mandate. No money, no support to improve programs, but new requirements, with punitive threats, just pull a rabbit out of your hat. No problem except it was a huge problem.

    It might interest you to know that the Congress according to PBS is in the process of rewriting "No Child Left Behind" to take a way teacher punishments for failing. This is a terrible idea. Programs whose success is based on the threat of punishment is idiotic.
     
  22. HarryPot macrumors 6502a

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    #22
    I agree that the education system in the US, and most parts of the world also, is very lacking. And I understand your anger for this.
    It is not a simple task, finding teachers for so many kids. Some teachers might do it because they have a vocation for helping kids to have a brighter future, but most just do it because they need a job and money.

    These teachers made something wrong, they cheated for higher scores and higher bonuses, and in doing so they also hurt the kids chance of getting federal funding. So yes, sack them and fine them, and make an example of them.

    But 7 years in prison (even one year) not only breaks your professional life, it completely breaks your personal life. And the problem will continue. New teachers might not cheat in the scores again, but they won't be better teachers for not doing so. And I'm sure those fundings for extra programs will have the same kind of unexperienced teachers.

    Jail should be for people that have made such crimes that they no longer can have contact with society. For the rest, you should try and make them change for the better, something for which jail is not very effective, specially not jails like the ones in the US.

    Besides, the cost of having this 7 teachers in prison will be around $280,000 per year. I'm sure that money could be spent in a much better way.
     
  23. Menel thread starter macrumors 603

    Menel

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    #23
    I do find this a compelling argument
     
  24. citizenzen macrumors 65816

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    #24
    Your open-mindedness is admirable.
     
  25. A.Goldberg macrumors 68000

    A.Goldberg

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    #25
    I think 2-7 years is an awful long sentence for something like this, but I do consider the fact that covering up test scores and ultimately doing a huge disservice to their students is quite serious.

    I also agree jail is best used for people who must be kept isolated from society due to their dangerous potential (this would include severe white collar crime). These teachers are not dangerous or criminal masterminds, so I suspect they will not serve out their entire sentences.

    I think losing their jobs, teaching licenses, community service, and fines are acceptable.

    I don't agree in success based bonuses in cases like this, as it leads to issues such as this (manipulations of grades, watering down curriculum, or cheating on tests). CVS Pharmacy a while back rewarded their pharmacists who could process a certain rate of prescriptions/hr, which was soon deemed unethical due to the fact they were not adequately reviewing their prescriptions putting their patients at risk. The allure of money will cause people to throw out ethics to gain profit. Therefore it should not be used in a setting where it can convolute what really matters.
     

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