Australian mass shooting

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by lostngone, Jun 5, 2019.

  1. lostngone macrumors 65816

    lostngone

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  2. VulchR macrumors 68020

    VulchR

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    #2
    Sounds like the shotgun was illegal. Some might argue 'See? Gun regulation does not work. A lunatic still managed to get an illegal gun to kill people.' However, it is the statistics on average across the entire country that is the news story here. To quote the article cited above:

    In the decade leading up to the 1996 massacre, more than a 100 people had been shot dead in various shooting sprees. In the years following reform, the risk of dying by gunshot in Australia fell by more than 50% -- and stayed there. Suicide by firearm -- one of the leading causes of gun death in the US -- was also reduced by almost 80% in the decade after Port Arthur.
    Apparently Australia, like many countries suffering from a gun-related atrocity, reacted strongly and swiftly to regulate guns after a massacre in 1996, and gun deaths were reduced as a result. Gun regulation does not need to prevent all shootings to be beneficial and worthy of consideration.
     
  3. Vanilla Ice macrumors 6502

    Vanilla Ice

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  4. lostngone thread starter macrumors 65816

    lostngone

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    #4
    So then, how are they going to stop this from happening again and again? You pointed out that the numbers are lower than the U.S. but clearly there are still illegal firearms in Australia and law abiding citizens are not allowed to carry them for protection.
     
  5. linuxcooldude macrumors 68020

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    #5
    Watch out, "Hopes and Prayers" is a trigger warning.
     
  6. Sydde macrumors 68020

    Sydde

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    #6
    2019 mass shootings (so far):
    1. 1/23: 5 killed
    2. 1/24: 4 killed &
    3. 4 killed (w/shooter)
    4. 1/26: 4 killed
    5. 2/3: 4 killed
    6. 2/11: 4 killed (w/shooter)
    7. 2/15: 5 killed
    8. 2/16: 4 killed
    9. 2/18: 4 killed
    10. 2/27: 4 killed (w/shooter)
    11. 4/1: 4 killed &
    12. 4 killed
    13. 4/22: 4 killed
    14. 4/28: 4 killed
    15. 5/31: 12 killed
    Total fatalities:70

    That is just a list of shootings with 4 or more victims killed (count may include shooter's suicide). Australia had a shooting that would have qualified for the list last year. A shooting — last year, the US had 36 mass shootings taking 188 lives.
     
  7. chagla macrumors 6502a

    chagla

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    #7
    Objective is to minimize and reduce fatality. Why do you expect extreme results which is impossible to achieve and use that as a justification to arm to teeth?
     
  8. Sydde macrumors 68020

    Sydde

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    #8
    It should perhaps be noted that last year's mass shooting in Australia, which claimed 7 lives, was described as the worst since Port Arthur, 22 years prior. In the US, 7 victims in a shooting is a rough Thursday.
     
  9. BoxerGT2.5 macrumors 68000

    BoxerGT2.5

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    #9
    While I am someone who supports the 2nd amendment but doesn't view every gun law as a backdoor assault on the thing, when a shooting in a country with strict gun laws like Australia occurs and staunch 2nd amendment folks immediately jump to "SEE!!!!", it's ridiculous. There's a pretty strong consensus that traffic laws, speed limits, stop signs, traffic lights are a good thing. Do they prevent every accident or potential fatality? No. Because they don't has anyone ever argued to eliminate all traffic laws and regulations? Not in the least bit. I don't think anyone has ever argued that banning all guns would end gun violence, if they did then they're an idiot. The goal is to reduce the **** out of them.
     
  10. lostngone, Jun 5, 2019
    Last edited: Jun 5, 2019

    lostngone thread starter macrumors 65816

    lostngone

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    #10
    The police, politicians and the rich are afforded firearms/armed protection. The common man is not so lucky. The knowledge that it happens “less” to the people that were left defenseless and were killed doesn’t mean anything to them the moment they died.
     
  11. Zenithal macrumors 604

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    #11
    In Chicago at Devil Dawgs surely.
     
  12. Khalanad75 macrumors 6502

    Khalanad75

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    #12
    And you could say the same thing to the people who were armed but still killed in a mass shooting. I would take Australia's mass shooting statistics any day of the week over the US's.
     
  13. bambooshots, Jun 6, 2019
    Last edited: Jun 6, 2019

    bambooshots macrumors 65816

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    #13
    You talk about not expecting extreme results.

    Banning hundreds of millions and attempting to remove them under threat of punishment which is an impossible task and is an extreme task, not to mention extreme overreach of government.

    How do you reconcile those extremes?
     
  14. sim667 macrumors 65816

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    #14
  15. bambooshots macrumors 65816

    bambooshots

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    #15
    It's what they do best, twist definitions to fit their agenda. Wish I could find it, but somewhere I read that they would include drug or gang activity involving suspects who have reached the age of majority, as "school shootings," because they happened near schools. Never mind the age of the suspects nor that it happened during off school hours.

    Lover's triangle gone bad that ends with two homicides and a suicide? "Mass shooting."

    List goes on and on.

    Most of their argument is emotionally driven. Can't very well fight against that with facts.

    https://www.cnsnews.com/news/article/cdc-study-use-firearms-self-defense-important-crime-deterrent
     
  16. sim667 macrumors 65816

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    #16
    But you don't have any sources to the refute their number? Just an opinion in an article you read but can't remember where you read it......

    Thanks for your informative contribution.
     
  17. VulchR macrumors 68020

    VulchR

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    #17
    What rate of mass shootings would you rather have - the US's or Australia's? Again, gun regulation does not have to eliminate completely all gun-related violence and deaths to be potentially beneficial. It is a matter of degree.
     
  18. VulchR macrumors 68020

    VulchR

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    #18
    Agreed, and at the same time not all those who argue for gun control want an outright ban. I think most of us agree that only measures that have a good chance of reducing gun violence and suicide should be considered, but that requires research. It's a shame that the CDC has been starved of funds for doing this until recently by Congress (see link).
     
  19. duffman9000 macrumors 68000

    duffman9000

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    #19
    Hopes and prayers don't do anything. You might as well send magic unicorns.
     
  20. tshrimp macrumors 6502

    tshrimp

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    #20
    The gun is a tool, so what was the change in murder rate?
    --- Post Merged, Jun 6, 2019 ---
    That is cold. Have some compassion and respect.
     
  21. BoxerGT2.5 macrumors 68000

    BoxerGT2.5

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    #21
    I don't think we need to research it, we need to come to a consensus on what mental health conditions should prevent someone from gun ownership. Then we need to hold mental health professionals accountable. We need criminal justice reform and we need to maintain the rights of gun ownership while subjecting every firearm purchase with a background check.
     
  22. Peterkro macrumors 68020

    Peterkro

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    #22
  23. Chew Toy McCoy macrumors regular

    Chew Toy McCoy

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    #23
    I love the US mentally of thinking allowing millions of people to arm themselves is a good response to the murder of 4 people and would somehow result in less gun violence.
     
  24. tshrimp macrumors 6502

    tshrimp

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    #24
    You left some things out.

    Even from that article, if you look at the stats, 4 of the next 6 years after the gun buyback there was an increase. Therefore no correlation between the 2. It is great that the homicide rate is down though. That is always great to hear.

    upload_2019-6-6_10-49-32.png

    Edit:

    Homicide in the US at an all time low, and gun ownership at an all time high.

    https://mises.org/wire/fbi-us-homicide-rate-51-year-low
     
  25. LordVic macrumors 603

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    #25
    you're looking at the outliers and ignoring the trend.

    completely disingenuous argument.
     

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