Avid Buyout?

arn

macrumors god
Original poster
Staff member
Apr 9, 2001
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A Spymac posted a rumor regarding a possible Avid buyout:

According to Avid insiders Adobe says enough is enough already. They are planning on purchasing Avid Technology so Apple computer can't get their hands on the high-end editorial market as well.


Cameron writes with the following MacCentral thread with further hints:

A quick check of the SEC filings for AVID Technologies http://www.sec.gov shows that Microsoft acquired 4.8% of Avid on 14th Feb. What is also interesting is the other large blocks of shares acquired by various financial institutions over the last week. Something major is going on here !!
 

3rdpath

macrumors 68000
actually, microsoft cut their holdings of avid just about in half--they did own over 9% of avid's outstanding stock....i think the writings on the wall: as processor speeds go up, there is less and less advantage to avid ( and pro-tools) systems. just my 2 cents.....
 

Xapplimatic

macrumors 6502
Oct 23, 2001
417
0
California
The truth be told..

Originally posted by 3rdpath
...i think the writings on the wall: as processor speeds go up, there is less and less advantage to avid ( and pro-tools) systems.


I think you hit the nail right on the head! Last year's PowerMacs were already capable of realtime effects and realtime encoding.. We've lost the need for specialized editing hardware... it just isn't necessary and it certainly isn't cost effective! Go Apple!!!
 
U

Unregistered

Guest
If adobe wants to buy AVID let them there going down the drain anyway, the only thing avid is good for right now is doing the offline edit and then taking the EDL to a fire or smoke. Adobe would be dumb to buy avid, but if they want to let them. IF apple wanted avid they would have bought them already.
REAL
 

motive8

macrumors newbie
Feb 17, 2002
11
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Portland, Oregon
Why Not Buy Media 100 Instead!

Apple should buy media 100 instead. They've been staunch mac supporters, there products is made in house (not OEM'ed like Avid's hardware), has better video resolution, is a startup and family owned company, and the only company in the digital video market Avid hasn't pushed around.
 

mymemory

macrumors 68020
May 9, 2001
2,495
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Miami
Avid in a PC!!!

Hehehehehehehehehehehehehe..... hehehehehehehehehehehehehe..... hehehehehehehehehehe...

I couldn't care less if Microsoft get Avid! they will need 10 more years to make it run as well as a Mac 3 years ago.

I think Apple can make a better and easyer software with Final Cut Pro in a year from now.

Think about it! how many software ingeneers arournd are that already know how the softwares works? we are not in the 80's, these days you can crate a greate software and with a little advertising (if is really good) yo can make it an standart. Look at Flash for example, is a more ehance, friendly and compatible than Director. The same with Final Cut Pro and Premiere (premiere was not that complicated as Director).

I mean, there is nothing to worried about, the industry is the one that is going to decide if Avid turns to PC plataform only.
 
U

Unregistered

Guest
The Rumor in the Industry...

For the last few weeks has been that Apple has already purchased AVID.

Maybe that's why M$ is selling.

From what I understand, several post houses think AVID is dying. FCP is selling like hot cakes and since AVID went to NT they can only sell in the corporate space for things like industrials.

AVID made the system too hard. FCP is too easy in comparison.

Only now is FCP making in roads into features and when a Director say I want to cut FCP (because he already has a system at home) the studio or independent is not going to argue for $5 - $10K.

But features is exactly how AVID took over. It all trickled down. This time it's trickling up.

Just my two cents.
 

748s

macrumors 6502a
Dec 14, 2001
685
24
Tiger Bay
the only reason to buy avid or media 100 is to keep them off pc's.
they are both mature apps that are at the end of life. FCP is belting both of them. media 100 is set to dump apple next week (25th).
media 100's inability to have more then 2 video tracks by version 8 is just stupid.
buy both of them and close them down.
buy discreet if there is enough money left.
 

motive8

macrumors newbie
Feb 17, 2002
11
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Portland, Oregon
FCP vs. M100

You can't compare firewire footage to zero loss hardware compressed signal off a media 100. It's almost as silly as comparing OS X to Windows XP! FCP is cool--it was written by Randy Ubillos (the same guy who wrote the initial version of Premiere), but without a hardware interface (aka breakout box and betacam SP component video in/out).
 

Robrecord

macrumors newbie
Nov 12, 2001
4
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Come ON!

A few things: First Auto Desk aka Discrett owns Media 100 and will probably not be realeasing future Media 100 products that we all know now. Second as an Avid editor for 10 plus years who recently moved to FCP. I'm convinced that FCP is the Avid killer. With that said it kills the Media Composer line and below. FCP still cannot touch The Symphony or espcially the DS. This could of course change now that Apple bought Nothing Real.

While I could see Adobe buying Avid would it make much sense for their product line? After Effects is a standard that everyone loves. Premire is so so. And we all know the rest but these are all $500-1500 programs not 20k deicated systems. Would Adobe dumb down the feature set and more importantly kill the hardware assocated with Avid Systems. Adobe is simply not a hardware producer.

It would make more sense for Apple to purchase Avid. As a hardware producer they could also keep up with the hardware thats needed to run these boxes. Also since the feauture set of FCP is very similar to that of Media Composer etc. It would be much easier for Apple to scale the line just like Avid does now.

I say Apple get some umm testicular foritude and do right. It makes alot of sense and Adobe has been a pain in the butt recently esp. with photoshop.
 

748s

macrumors 6502a
Dec 14, 2001
685
24
Tiger Bay
you are right about picture quality. media 100 is way ahead in dv. most broadcasters won't accept dv. if you want to do something with fcp for broadcast you need a card like a digital voodoo, 10 bit uncompressed with yuv and sdi i/o, much better than m100 xr 7.5. comparing standard fcp to media 100 you have to compare it to the le system. even media 100's le system...the dv system, has better pic quality than fcp/firewire. i used media 100 xs for 6 years. i prefer it's ease of use, speed and heaps of real time features. now that i have to spend my own money....it's fcp with a voodoo card. the character generator in fcp is poor. 2 video tracks in media 100, even on the xr model is stupid. you have to go to after effects for compositing, which you shouldn't have to do (it has been easier since export by reference). media 100 is definetly at "the end of life stage". media 100's pegasus is released on 25th feb and looks like being a pc system only. they are going after henry, flame, smoke etc.etc. they will probably support the i and v systems but gradually phase them out, if pegasus takes off. if it doesn't, they go out of business.
 

748s

macrumors 6502a
Dec 14, 2001
685
24
Tiger Bay
auto desk/discreet only got cleaner off media 100. they got 16 million dollars. needed the money for the pegasus project. rumours abound that autodesk will kill combustion for the mac and probably do the same to cleaner. mind you it takes me 90 minutes to do an mpeg2 compression in cleaner of a 5 minute music video and 8 minutes in quicktime. do i need cleaner anymore? quicktime has a higher mbits per sec rate too.
a lot of people are saying, like it or not, FCP is an avid/media 100 killer. it is killing them!
 

motive8

macrumors newbie
Feb 17, 2002
11
0
Portland, Oregon
Media 100 killer etc.

I've been a journalist in the DV market since Supermac was distributing this little frame-flipper video demo thing that could actually play video on a computer(!) (also written by Randy Ubillos), and I've seen Avid's demise and Data Translation (now Media 100) predicted demise over and over. Almost as many times as I've seen Apple's "demise" (or at least buyout rumors).
FCP is not going to kill Media 100 and especially not Avid. It's not the same market. Mac users are incredibly myopic--it's like, if something doesn't cost under 1000 bucks, everybody freaks out.
There will always be a high end market for hardware video devices like the Media 100, which is to FCP what a cruise missile is to a BB Gun. Real-time hardware compressed non-linear with zero visible compression artifacts is still light years in quality better than the quality" of 5:1 compression of DV footage. Not to say you can't use FCP with Media 100...
Though M100 isn't selling in the hundreds of thousands, but they are priced into the low end of the pro market (Avid is priced into the high end). Probably sell just as many as Ferrari sells vs. Jettas.
 

748s

macrumors 6502a
Dec 14, 2001
685
24
Tiger Bay
steve advising adobe on what to buy!

motive8, i think media 100 are gambling the farm on pegasus. they are trying to move into the top end area covered by quantel and discreet. At the moment m100 are no where near the top end. FCP is taking over the market that m100 and the cheaper avids are aimed at. saying that FCP will kill m100 and avid could be optimistic on my part. avid and m100 have played a part in their own demise. conversations with other editors around my area lets me know lots are jumping to FCP. i liked m100 it was a good product. i would have liked to continue with it. things have moved on . m100 hasn't. i've changed to fcp. when i went freelance my only choice was m100 or fcp. i didn't even consider an avid. i rarely go anywhere near dv. 99% of my work is off sp or digital sp. i had uncompressed before media 100. media 100 only got to uncompressed at version 7.5, the middle of last year. before that it was compressed. can you explain what media 100 are up to by putting 24 audio tracks in version 8? any pro project will send the audio on to a specialist audio facility after picture lock off. why can't they work out how to get more than 2 video tracks happening? when most users were cutting for broadcast, why did they decide that m100 would be a streaming system? media 100 have added to their own demise, FCP won't do it alone. the pegasus project may make inroads to the top end market. at between 50k-100k it will be competitive. yes, cost did play apart in my choice, i was also looking to the future. when i was buying, around my way, media100 xs costs $25,000. FCP plus a digital voodoo card $12,000. a long way from being under $1000. i'm happy with my choice.
adobe will be very happy with their choice to buy avid...(and good luck to them).
rumours in another post about adobe doing dvd.
steve jobs has a daily chat with whatshisname(head of adobe....?)
steve is advising his mate what to go for in the video market.
the video market for PC that is.
there are big, gaping holes in the video/dvd apps for PC. apple has picked off a few of the "jewels in the crown" of the pc world
steve is probably not advising adobe but they are using apple as a role model.......to own video/dvd on pc. premiere is a dog. they need something decent. no one knows what steve and his mates are doing or will do. an apple-adobe strategic alliance to takeover all creative apps ? we won't know untill it happens.
 

motive8

macrumors newbie
Feb 17, 2002
11
0
Portland, Oregon
Adobe and Avid

I couldn't think of two more disparate cultures; Avid in Tewksbury, Mass , a chilly, barren suburb of northern Boston area. Old boy network, studio gouging history, hard ball players. Adobe, the California Mac-bastion, artsy-fartsy Photoshop factory, who have ceased betting on Premiere for any kind of real turnaround. I can't see why they would want to own a hardware company that is a serious high end niche market (Avid Premiere?). It's like Hello Kitty buys Pontiac. It maybe makes more sense that they get Pro Tools, which could round out Adobe's media lineup...while giving Premiere a hardware front end, with a new OS X version... who knows. Inquiries are being made right now.
Still, as far as Jobs goes, it might make some sense from either the perspective of Apple buying it or just incorporating it into the Apple world via an Adobe buyout. Jobs is going for the throat of the motion graphics market, which Apple has always been the "kid brother" to, and most 3D artists got their start in. With Jobs Pixar experience, he's truly wet his teeth on the glitz of what 3D can bring; and with the G5's coming next year, and Maya for OS X, you know he's maneuvering to steal SGI's thunder as that company is sucking wind too.
Also, i think Media 100 has been hamstrung because FCP can work with external hardware across the board (no pun intended), and Media 100 works with...Media 100. Believe it or not, the fact that you can't really bootleg Media 100 software unless you have a Media 100 board has made it foreign to a lot of the REALLY early adopters (the pirates) on Hotline and Limewire--the very people who make software "viral".
 

barkmonster

macrumors 68020
Dec 3, 2001
2,123
12
Lancashire
well it's about time apple invested in something audio related.

All apple's current ventures into music software are just the mp3 related.

Protools is VERY mac based anyway, An apple buyout would make massive amounts of sense, not least because media 100 would compliment Final Cut Pro. Plus apple have never been keen on giving the mac audio capabilities, I mean the mac's audio spec as of early 2002 is lower from a connectivity point of view than an Atari Falcon was nearly 10 years ago, Macs don't even have midi, support DAT quality sound or even have audio inputs. Firewire may be the future but I certainly can't do much with a firewire port when I need analogue audio inputs and at least 1 set of midi in/out connectors!!!

oh, unless I add some VERY expensive hardware from a third party, hardware that apart from the midi ports and measly CD quality audio in/out have been standard issue on macs since as long as I can remember till apple decided to give us digital audio and take away the audio inputs.

As far as the guy saying protools' expensive hardware is not needed these days, have you seen the amount of plugins you can run on a 1.4Ghz Athlon compared to a 867Mhz G4, it's such an obscene number for a hostbased system that it makes the mac look like an abacus in comparison. Of course a DSP farm can run many times more plug-ins than any CPU anyway, so many that the expense of the DSP hardware is more than justified for those who can afford to buy it and need it. If Apple had complete control of Avid I think we would see some serious video and audio editing systems coming down in price significantly and being offered through the apple store as complete packages. It'd benefit everyone who does video and audio on their mac if apple and avid were one and same. For info to back up my claims about the mac's lame plug-in count in Protools LE, just search the digidesign user conference, it's all there in black and white.
 

3rdpath

macrumors 68000
the audio answer sure isn't protools

with all due respect, pro tools is WAY overpriced and their midi implementation is pure shyte. and why does apple need a midi input? anyone with even the simplest of music systems needs a midi patchbay anyway and they all can be connected to a mac thru a usb or serial connection. and yes i know the serial port is history but you can pop one in the modem slot for $40.00-no biggie.....all that connective hardware is available from multiple vendors for small $$$. and if we're going to talk cost, nothing is more expensive than protools. why? heck if i know...i use both protools and digital performer just about every single day and i can say without a doubt-hardware based dsp is fading away. with a dual 800 i can get massive track count and run a bazillion plug-ins ( and thats not using "sends and returns" ). and lets factor in the price of the protools farm cards-sheesh! i can't speak for the visual side of things , but man the audio side is changing for the better. you don't need majorly expensive gear anymore. sure there will always be studios with the latest and greatest ( read: impressive to the creatively insecure...) but the future of the business is lower budgets and freelancers at home with something like FCP, performer or logic and a mac. feel free to go to www.motu.com or read SHOOT, POST, MIX or BOARDS to see where digital audio is going. so enough of my rant on the protools myth. i just don't think buying avid is going to increase apple's 5% market share and thats their mission. maybe there's some asset of that dying monolith that i'm missing-but i don't think so. ( and avid's financial statements are just sad, sad, sad.... )

my additional 2 cents worth.... :eek:
 

motive8

macrumors newbie
Feb 17, 2002
11
0
Portland, Oregon
Apple Audio Redux

Agreed all the way. MIDI is cheaper than Ink Jet printing, no biggie. I think the real market that's heating up in audio is the two channel all in one USB or firewire interface. Apogee's looks totally cool ("Mini-Me"), or the USBpre from Sound Devices. Motu's stuff, of course, too.
Pro-tools is typically Avid--small ***** mentality. Most still run them through Apogee UV 22 converters, or even funnier, "tape simulators" (aka Distressor) to add tape "warmth" to the signal (aka"noise"!).
Not like their software is any better than anything else out there anyway either. It's not like the video market; audio is far older, way more mature, and SHOULD be way cheaper. Small ***** mentality runs the industry. Even when i worked at Mackie designs, they were concerned nobody would buy their D8B mixer because it was too small and didn't take up the "acreage" that standard consoles took up!
 

3rdpath

macrumors 68000
apple could learn a few things from mackie

if apple wants to expand ( and why not...) then diversify. buy or partner with glyph or some other storage provider. look at the peripherals-not just software-motu wouldn't be a bad idea either. mackie did it with EAW and now with universal audio. i think steve and greg have a lot in common ( except wardrobe.....)

geeeze, another 2 cents
 

motive8

macrumors newbie
Feb 17, 2002
11
0
Portland, Oregon
Greg and Steve

This is funny to compare Greg Mackie to Steve Jobs. Greg Mackie is a reclusive, dwarf-like engineer who still has the first mixer he ever hand wired in his office. Jobs has his own jet and groupies (and i think has hair implants), and is a notorious in-your-face fearmonger. Greg goes through intermediaries to tell people stuff cuz he's kind of bad with people.
They both do share the love of good design . What Greg lacks in flair--he makes up for in savvy, economy and performance. Mackie is an engineering company appealing to a market of cool musicians doing everything themselves; apple is (and has to be) about their "vision" and marketing selling stuff to a world of DOS users who hate Apple cuz their users never had to suffer with a command-based OS . Mackie's ads all look like their ads were written on hallucinogens and stimulants (i know firsthand that some actually were!), and Apple's were written by very very expensive advertising and branding firms. Greg could learn to keep ads more sparse; Steve could learn to wear pro keds to work once in a while.