Awareness of the Iraq War

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by solvs, Mar 16, 2008.

  1. solvs macrumors 603

    solvs

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    #1
    Suprised this hasn't been mentioned yet, but:

    Awareness of Iraq War Fatalities Plummets

    That last part really stood out, since as we've been saying, it really isn't.

    Report shows increase in Iraq violence since January
    Iraqi civilian death toll up to 39 daily
    Petraeus: Iraqi Leaders Not Making 'Sufficient Progress'
    One Year Later, Market Where McCain Strolled ‘Freely’ Is Controlled By Sadr, Too Unsafe For Americans To Visit

    Speaking of which:

    Iraqis Unmoved by McCain Visit


    But the surge is working? :confused: I guess if the media says so. The media who've, as mentioned above, stopped talking about Iraq and much:

    Ian Williams on Iraq: "The War Isn't Present in the Media"

    All this among news that Saddam had nothing to do with 9/11 or Al Queda, which also isn't really being covered in the MSM for some reason.
     
  2. solvs thread starter macrumors 603

    solvs

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    #2
  3. skunk macrumors G4

    skunk

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    #3
    Things are going well, I see.

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/7299914.stm
     
  4. mactastic macrumors 68040

    mactastic

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    #4
    What do you expect when "Support the Troops" is just mouth music for many supposed "patriots"...
     
  5. solvs thread starter macrumors 603

    solvs

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    #5
  6. solvs thread starter macrumors 603

    solvs

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    #6
    US death toll in Iraq war hits 4,000

    Anbar: U.S. trophy for Iraq security losing its shine

    Dozens die as new wave of violence hits Iraq

    Fresh violence frays militia truce in Iraq

    Wave of Iraq violence kills 57

    And:

    Panel probes troops' electrocution deaths in Iraq

    In case anyone is still wondering why some of us have a problem with the lack of oversight with the contractors, this is yet another reason why.
     
  7. MACDRIVE macrumors 68000

    MACDRIVE

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    #7
    Hmm ... so it's ok to have two consecutive posts in a row as long as you're providing new information then huh? :cool:
     
  8. skunk macrumors G4

    skunk

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    #8
    Two consecutive posts with new information are certainly better than one pointless comment.
     
  9. blackfox macrumors 65816

    blackfox

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    #9
    well, free free to comment on whether this is the chicken or the egg...but since the economy has eclipsed the war on the average citizens' agenda - it seems likely that people will naturally pay less attention to a far away event than to one that has daily real-world repurcussions. The media is just catering to that realization. This is in no way a commentary on whether that should happen, but just to why it may...
     
  10. Dont Hurt Me macrumors 603

    Dont Hurt Me

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    #10
    Just say the same phrase over and over and it becomes the truth, and if not create a new spin phrase. The Surge is working ,the surge is working the surge is working. BushCo still doesnt understand that you cant just slap democracy on top of Islam and expect it to work. Oil & water doesnt mix no matter how many spin phrases they come up with. I wonder what the next Republican spin phrase will be?

    What happened to Bin Laden? the righties still dont want to talk about this guy.
     
  11. solvs thread starter macrumors 603

    solvs

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    #11
    Several days apart, with completely relevant and completely new information? Yeah, that's allowed. Spamming is not, but based on the subject and the links posted, I don't think I'm doing that. Here's more:

    Is "Success" Of Iraq Surge About To Unravel?
    US, Iraqi troops battle Shiite militia
    The 3,999th Was Important, Too

    This one really got to me:

    Six of the Fallen, in Words They Sent Home

    Try to read that and not well up a little.

    And yet:

    McCain Says US Succeeding in Iraq As American Death Toll Hits 4,000
    NOW THAT THEY'VE GOTTEN A CHANCE TO SEE McCAIN UP CLOSE, EUROPEANS ARE WORRIED THAT HE'S ACTUALLY WORSE THAN BUSH

    But Bush can just pass it off to the next person, Dem or GOP:

    Bush Given Iraq War Plan With a Steady Troop Level

    Peachy.
     
  12. solvs thread starter macrumors 603

    solvs

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    #12
    And you know, just in case anyone may think I'm happy about this, or rubbing it in, or something, I wish I was wrong about this. I wish we were winning or had won (whatever that means). But I keep hearing how the surge is working because the violence is down. Iraq is barely mentioned anymore, the economy seeming to be more important (which it is important, I'm not saying it isn't) and I'm not the only one who's noticed. But even if we ignore the lack of political progress and self sufficiency the surge was supposed to give time for as the goal posts move back yet again (and still aren't met) as I posted, the violence is going back up:

    Fighting leaves crucial truce with Iraq militia in shambles

    This is why I'm so angry. Why I post these things. So we don't think things are going well just because the same politicians who've been telling us things are going well this whole time keep saying it. It can't just be me. Maybe I'm just preaching to the converted. Maybe there's nothing more to be said. I don't even see people trying to defend it as much anymore. So do we just not want to think about it anymore? Do we feel helpless to stop it until Bush is gone? Even then? I guess I should stop trying to make a point most of us already know. I don't want to be spamming. I guess I just don't see it talked about as much as I think it should be. Maybe it's just depressing people. Same with the economy.

    I should probably just get off the soapbox and get some sleep.
     
  13. MACDRIVE macrumors 68000

    MACDRIVE

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    #13
    I was definitely thinking about the war during the 4 1/2 hours of this week's FRONTLINE. I'm totally puzzled as to why Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, Wolfowitz, Bremer and Rice aren't being prosecuted for fraud; I think they all deserve some serious jail time.
     
  14. Thomas Veil macrumors 68020

    Thomas Veil

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    #14
    Yes, the crappy economy surging to the forefront is partially responsible for this, but I think it's also the election.

    Would that the news media spend even a few minutes of each newscast talking about the war, instead of discussing whether Obama's pastor will hurt him, or whether Hillary is too shrill. They're not discussing issues of the election anyway, they're just describing the horse race. BFD. Tell us about something truly important, like how the war's going. But no, that has to be left to foreign media, PBS, bloggers and the like.
     
  15. Iscariot macrumors 68030

    Iscariot

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    #15
    I think what amazes me most is the continued erosion of civil liberties without citizenry actually doing anything about it.

    It seems like every other day I'm reading about some abuse perpetrated by the TSA. The TSA made a woman pull out her nipple rings with pliers. The TSA opened a disabled man's sterilized feeding tube.
     
  16. hulugu macrumors 68000

    hulugu

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    #16
    And, don't forget the Samoan delegate has requested a probe into the death of a Samoan infant who died while in TSA custody. The child was en route to Hawaii for heart-surgery, but was held because of a paperwork error.

    Of course, it was obvious that America had lost its collective wits when we started giving up our nail-clippers.
     
  17. Iscariot macrumors 68030

    Iscariot

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    #17
    Interestingly, I once flew into Los Angeles from Toronto with about a dozen razorblades in my carry-on, post 9/11. It's not even like it's working.
     
  18. solvs thread starter macrumors 603

    solvs

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    #18
    I'm sorry to keep this going after being away for a few days, but Iraq is plunging back into chaos (though, was it ever not?), and for some reason, it's still barely mentioned.

    Military tells Bush of troop strains
    Two-Front War Strains Putting U.S. At Risk
    More than 100 dead in two days of Iraq fighting
    Iraqi forces battle Mahdi militia in southern Iraq, Baghdad
    U.S. forces drawn deeper into Iraq crackdown
    Shiite leader al-Sadr defies Iraq gov't
    A Civil War Iraq Can’t Win
    Turkish Army Kills at Least 15 Kurdish Rebels in Northern
    US Military Deaths in Iraq at 4,007
    Bush's mess grows in Iraq

    We've heard that the surge is working because violence is down. Even though none of the other goals of the surge, like political reconciliation and self sufficiency of the Iraqi military, were met. Not to mention that we still have a lack of oversight. Now violence is going back up. But all I continue to hear from Bush and McCain is that it's still working, despite:

    McCain’s Iraq victory speech interrupted by reports of violence in Iraq
    Why the Administration Won't Define Success in Iraq
    Return On Success

    Meanwhile, even overlooking the contractors we aren't watching enough who are proving to be detrimental to our troops, they're still facing trouble when they return:

    Wall Street Journal: Returning vets can expect fewer jobs, lower pay
    Because It’s Right
    Webb: McCain Refuses To Co-Sponsor GI Bill For Post-9/11 Veterans

    Iscariot, you should post your link.
     
  19. hulugu macrumors 68000

    hulugu

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    #19
    ^

    I have to admit, at some point the whole thing exhausts me. I can only rage for so long before I'm just tired of it.

    There was a moment when I thought the "surge" might actually work. But, the situation appears completely intractable. It's just unbelievable how much of a tar baby the war is, from the first glimmer of 'regime-change' to today.

    I'm going to go bang my head against the wall.
     
  20. MacNut macrumors Core

    MacNut

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    #20
    I don't hear the lefties saying much either. Nobody is talking about him anymore.
     
  21. hulugu macrumors 68000

    hulugu

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    #21
    This strikes me as another effect of the Iraq War. Although:

    It probably doesn't help that most election coverage is still stuck on the horse-race between Obama and Clinton.
     
  22. robanga macrumors 68000

    robanga

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    #22
    If anyone does not think we are in the beginning of what will be at least a 100 year war between non-islamic societies (the west, India and china eventually) and Islam itself, i suggest you do a little further thinking :)

    The ideology itself is part of it, you have only to read an English translation of their holy book to understand that what it clearly calls the faithful to do.

    No other faith or ethos is structured in such a way, sure evil has been done in the name of all faiths but none of them can claim a core fundamental of disregard for the non-believer and conversion at the point of a sword. That is what the belief system rests on. Sure there are many people in that faith, that are moderate and disregard much of the book itself, but none the less.

    War is horrible, but we have demonstrated that peace is not exactly core to our nature as human beings. People who wish for peace, wish in vain I am afraid. This is a fight that will manifest itself in our children's, children time and beyond.

    Spend some time in the middle east, and understand the basics of the belief system, I encourage any people to do this. Was this war right? Was Saddam the right idiot to spend all of the time and resources on, in order to take out? We all have opinions on this, but to not understand the inevitability of this all is to ignore the fundamentals of what drives a large part of our fellow men.
     
  23. skunk macrumors G4

    skunk

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    #23
    This is arrant nonsense. As with Judaeo-Christianity, it all depends on which parts of the sacred texts you choose.
     
  24. robanga macrumors 68000

    robanga

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    #24
    Want to compare scripture? I suggest you read it before you call it nonsense. I said all faiths (including atheism, secular humanism and those faiths as well) have been guilty of evil.
     
  25. hulugu macrumors 68000

    hulugu

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    #25
    *snore*

    Huh? What. Another one, really? I think far too many electrons have been inconvenienced on this little chestnut that a war of civilizations is coming. First, this makes the wide assumption that every Muslim is a Koranic literalist determined to follow the suras into death and destruction. Second, this ignores that the 20th Century's genocides were committed not because of religion, but rather a mixture of religion, ethnicity, and political identities driven by propaganda. This also ignores the historical relationship that Islam had with the Christians and Jews of the levant, as just one example.


    As for secular humanists, please explain.
     

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