Ban the Kittens

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by Plutonius, Sep 19, 2016.

  1. Plutonius macrumors 604

    Plutonius

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    #1
    I always thought that shaking hands was the best way of transmitting viruses and bacteria (which is why I rarely shake hands).

    I now find reported that scientist from the US centers for disease control and prevention have put out a warning on cats / kittens. They found that bacterial cat scratch fever is very prevalent and sometimes life threatening.

    If you have a cat / kitten, do you take precautions ? De-clawing cats would prevent this so do you think we should require cats to be de-clawed ?
     
  2. Plutonius thread starter macrumors 604

    Plutonius

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    #3
    What is wrong with de-clawing them ?
     
  3. LizKat macrumors 68040

    LizKat

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    #4
    If they turn out to be not your "forever" kitties then wherever they land next, and especially if outdoors, they are less able to catch prey and deter attack, although they can do a lot of damage with their back claws which are not removed in "usual" de-clawing operations. Plus, the cat may be irreparably harmed by the surgery if it's not done properly and if proper post-surgical pain relief is not provided.

     
  4. juanm macrumors 65816

    juanm

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    #5
    What's wrong with cutting off your fingertips?
     
  5. ActionableMango, Sep 19, 2016
    Last edited: Sep 19, 2016

    ActionableMango macrumors G3

    ActionableMango

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    #6
    "Declawing" is not declawing at all, it's amputating the toe up to the first knuckle.

    It's horrific. So horrific that it is an illegal or regulated practice in nearly all of the Western world, with the exception of the US and Canada, where people think it's fine to chop toes off so the couch stays nice.
     
  6. tshrimp macrumors 6502

    tshrimp

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    #7
    Another reason not to get a cat :).
     
  7. ActionableMango, Sep 19, 2016
    Last edited: Sep 19, 2016

    ActionableMango macrumors G3

    ActionableMango

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    #8
  8. thermodynamic Suspended

    thermodynamic

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    #9
    Proper education of owners with risks by shelters and other supply-side entities (pet stores, other sellers) helps a lot but declawing is akin to removing fingernails - not whole fingers - and in both cases the parallel is half-baked at best since humans don't go around scratching things deeply since our fingernails are not built the same way, some cats have massive behavioral problems that lead to self-scratching or property destruction, and domesticated cats should be indoor animals anyway, not indoor/outdoor where they could be perceived wrongly as strays...

    Still, the risks are more worrisome for people with compromised immune systems. For them, a human-loving cat that would otherwise be "put to sleep" should be declawed and given to the person(s) as companions. The tangents I'd love to go from here but won't...
    --- Post Merged, Sep 19, 2016 ---
    Well, why not make an economy that places value on other things than just monetary value?

    That's not going to happen? Nor does furniture grow freely and cheaply off of trees? Well gee whiz, now what?

    What about cats that have issues, behavior or medical, that cause them to scratch themselves raw? Leaving them open to harmful infections, never mind half the antibiotics out there for cats could kill them just as easily...

    And people say it's not a harmless act. People who have had cats that have done every possible positive-reinforcement and negative-reinforcement act HAVE found that declawing, as a last resort, leads to a less stressed and more affectionate cat because the cat, who doesn't know what its claws are for, doesn't get sprayed and never understand why.

    Yes, declawing is horrific. Nobody is denying that. But so is euthanasia for an affectionate animal to be killed just because we now dictate no declawing, under any circumstances, should ever be done.
    --- Post Merged, Sep 19, 2016 ---
    A cat walks on all fours. Removing the fingertip areas, even on just the front paws rather than all four, can affect walking ability. In most cases, there are no problems, but the risk is there. There are worse risks for cats that would benefit from the surgery because it's the lesser evil, of course.

    And since I've had cats where the non-declawed one had shook his paw the same way the declawed one had, the idea of nerve damage causing the occasional and sporadic twitching doesn't seem to add up anymore.

    Also, if the owner doesn't follow post-surgical instructions regarding litterbox activities, the cat will develop an aversion to using the litterbox then pee and poo everwhere else. As a cat gets older, those risks increase.
    --- Post Merged, Sep 19, 2016 ---
    And they say declawing is a frivolous act. Sounds like people give up pets just as freely? Isn't that even more frivolous and wrong?

    Sounds like the vet didn't take enough time and care to do the operation correctly. Especially for the price involved.
     
  9. LizKat macrumors 68040

    LizKat

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    #10
    Maybe people who'd think they had to declaw a cat to keep it indoors should just get toy animals.
     
  10. ActionableMango, Sep 19, 2016
    Last edited: Sep 19, 2016

    ActionableMango macrumors G3

    ActionableMango

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    #11
    I didn't say that declawing should never be done under any circumstances. In fact nobody in the thread said that, so congratulations on putting up a straw man that you can easily knock down.

    I said it was horrific, which you seem to agree with, and I said it was illegal/regulated in most of the Western world, which includes exemptions for exactly the situations you described.

    EDIT:

    You know what, I'm sorry about my response. It's clear we both care about cats and agree on this issue. Too much PRSI for me today.
     
  11. BoxerGT2.5 macrumors 68000

    BoxerGT2.5

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  12. bradl macrumors 68040

    bradl

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    #13
    This with some haboob makes for a wet, wonderful night. ;)

    BL.
     
  13. Plutonius thread starter macrumors 604

    Plutonius

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    #14
    The cat / kitten doesn't need the claws and in owners I know that had it done, there are no ill effects on the cats.
     
  14. ActionableMango macrumors G3

    ActionableMango

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    #15
    According to the following article, there are behavioral problems that occur about 30% of the time due to partial toe amputation. So it's not too hard to beat the odds. But if you are unlucky, you risk the cat having pain, arthritis, joint stiffness, increased biting, refusal to use the litterbox, and more.

    I adopted a declawed cat. She was initially purchased as a companion pet for an older person, and was declawed in an attempt to protect the older person from getting minor injuries associated with having a pet cat. All the declawing did was cause her to switch to biting, so they dumped her in a shelter. I really loved that cat but had to put up with her biting me.

    On a side note it was really weird to pet her front feet only to feel nothing under the fur where there should be toes. It made me sad every time.

    I can't stop you, but I hope you don't do it and at the very least I hope you read the article to increase your understanding of the risks involved. If you want a declawed cat despite all that, then there are many cats in the shelter that are already declawed, so you don't need to subject another cat to it yourself, nor would you have to pay for the operation. Petfinder.com can help you find a declawed cat.
     
  15. LizKat macrumors 68040

    LizKat

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    #16
    Catscratch fever is diagnosed in 4.5 / 100,000 outpatient visits per the linked article? Not even half a percent? I have a bigger chance several times a day at least of tripping over one of my non-declawed cats and breaking my neck. My cats will keep their claws. Anyway they're 19 now so it's late in the day to think about something I never gave a thought to in the first place.

    Cats come with claws and a lot of other attributes that not everyone appreciates too, so think carefully whether you really want one. They do what they please. They can be aloof. Females tend to prefer not to be in the company of other females, even if they are both neutered, since they remain more territorial than do neutered males. When they want to be cuddled they want that right now. They are not anything like dogs (with the occasional exception). They will ignore your commands or not even acknowledge your presence if they don't happen to want anything from you when you are trying to boss them around. These are all attributes that I think are fun in cats, but you might want to think about a dog if you like a pet who's more tuned into what you want than what they want. And they don't want to be declawed. Who would?
     
  16. Zombie Acorn macrumors 65816

    Zombie Acorn

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    #17
    You could always put those plastic clips on their nails to keep them from scratching. When we adopted our cat we actually signed a contract to not get it declawed as it causes health issues in cats. None of my cats have been declawed anyways.
     
  17. mojolicious macrumors 68000

    mojolicious

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    #18
    Kittens in mittens?
     
  18. Plutonius thread starter macrumors 604

    Plutonius

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    #19
    Selling some type of nail covering might get someone a lot of money on shark tank. I'm sure many cat owners would buy something that worked.
     
  19. Mac'nCheese macrumors 68040

    Mac'nCheese

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    #20
     
  20. vrDrew macrumors 65816

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    #21
    There is almost no historical record of a mental disease comparable to schizophrenia prior to the middle of the 19th century. Which, coincidentally, is the point at which western Europeans began keeping what we might today think of as "pet cats."

    Obviously there is a lengthy record of mental illness among human throughout recorded history. There were madhouses in Ancient Greece and Rome; in ancient Egypt and feudal Japan. But no description of symptoms and behaviors that we would today associate with schizophrenia.

    The ancient Romans and Egyptians were perfectly familiar with felis catus. They just didn't let them take up residence in their houses with them. Domestic cats main role in ancient times, through the middle ages, renaissance, and Enlightment was as a means of controlling rodents and other vermin. Cats might have been welcomed on the property. They just weren't invited to curl up in bed with the owner.

    Maybe its all just a coincidence. But then again, maybe not.
     
  21. daflake macrumors 6502a

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    #22
    Agreed! I have had all indoor cats and they can be trained to not claw if you work with them. People not willing to put the effort should get a chia pet
     
  22. steve knight macrumors 68020

    steve knight

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    #23
    cats are evil little ***** but some are cool. we never had a lap cat and my daughter is the cat whisperer. I keep teasing her she is only a fw cats away from crazy cat lady status.
     
  23. A.Goldberg macrumors 68020

    A.Goldberg

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    #24
    Well I suppose you could argue cutting out a cat's claws also leaves it succeptable to infection. Cat scratch fever is one of those infections that has almost a symbiotic relationship with its reservoir, generally meaning they've had an evolutionary relation.If you kill your host as a bacteria than you die too. Cats generally have minimal symptoms of CSF. 40% of cats carry CSF over their life, most do not present. It's generally pretty mild in humans as well and mostly affects those with underdeveloped immune systems (eh hem, children). It's also worth noting CSF exists in DOGS.

    Cat antibiotics for CSF the same ones we use in humans- Ammoxacillin, Doxycycline. Most animal drugs come from the human-intended development. Half of the antibiotics could kill easily cats? Source? Technically all antibotics, or most things for that matter in too high of a dose will kill an animal. But generally speaking most common antibiotics properly dosed are very safe.

    But this whole claw vs. declaw, nice furniture vs. ruined is yet another reminder of why cats are awful pets. Sorry cat lovers :p ;)
     
  24. lowendlinux Contributor

    lowendlinux

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    #25
    I'm not going to remove the only defence my little guy and girl have.
     

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