Ban The Mentally Ill

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by Merkava_4, Dec 20, 2012.

  1. Merkava_4, Dec 20, 2012
    Last edited: Dec 20, 2012

    Merkava_4 macrumors 6502a

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    #1
    The people on the far left want to ban guns and the people on the far right want to prohibit the mentally ill from owning guns or have the ability to drive a car legally.

    This is what somebody posted on a gun forum as their proposed legislation for gun control:


    I can see it happening. Three years from now, a person with any history of mental illness will not be allowed to own guns or drive a car. There will be a national data base for the mentally ill just like there is for convicted felons and sex offenders. Doctors will be very reluctant to certify a person who has undergone psychiatric treatment for a mental illness as being healthy enough to own a gun or drive a car for fear of being the target of civil litigation. Once you're determined by a doctor to be mentally ill, you'll be taking the bus for the rest of your life. Now the question being: What's going to be the official government definition of mental illness?
     
  2. jeremy h macrumors 6502

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    #2
    Why is there a conflation of firearms ownership and car ownership? Surely they're separate issues?
     
  3. annk Administrator

    annk

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    #3
    "Somebody on a gun forum" is a difficult source to evaluate. Could you cite your source?
     
  4. Merkava_4 thread starter macrumors 6502a

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    #4
    Because only people with valid driver's licenses will be allowed to own guns.

    You mean post a link to the page where I copied the post? I would like to, but forum rules prevent me from posting links to other forums.
     
  5. jeremy h macrumors 6502

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    #5
    But that doesn't make any kind of sense. Just have a separate firearms licence.
     
  6. VulchR macrumors 68020

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    #6
    While I am not a clinical psychologist, I am an academic psychologist and neuroscientist. 'Psychological testing' would eliminate people who have gross abnormalities in their behaviour, but like all forms of testing there would be false positives and false negatives. Also you could imagine the damage it would do if there was any hint of bias, which is difficult to remove from standardized tests. I can imagine the outcry that would occur if after a few years the test disproportionately excluded young white men (or an ethnic minority group). Nice idea in theory, but predicting violence is not so easy.

    Also, what about storage of weapons (which appears to be an issue in the CT case)? I personally think all guns (and ammo) should be required to be stored either in a government-approved home safe with trigger locks on each weapon, or they should be stored at a secure gun club. Top many people leave guns in places where thieves can gain access to them.
     
  7. SlasherDuff macrumors 6502a

    SlasherDuff

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    #7
    With all this nonsense going around soon we may have to apply for a license to buy a block of ktchen knives :rolleyes:
     
  8. jeremy h macrumors 6502

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    #8
    If you have a separate licence - and a requirement of it are some minimal storage conditions (as sensibly outlined above) then if those conditions are broken you can withdraw that licence. The point of a licence is that it can be revoked if certain conditions aren't met.

    How can you withdraw a driving licence if someone breaks the conditions of a firearm licence?
     
  9. Merkava_4 thread starter macrumors 6502a

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    #9
    Cars can kill people just like guns can. The proposed legislation is people who fail the psychological evaluation that is part of the newly revised background check for gun ownership, will also be disqualified to drive a car.
     
  10. jeremy h macrumors 6502

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    #10
    Sure, that's why you need a licence to drive a car.

    You have to prove you have been trained in it's use and are prepared to obey certain ongoing elementary conditions and rules to be allowed to continue driving.
     
  11. glocke12 macrumors 6502a

    glocke12

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    #11
    To be honest here in the US we need to completely revamp our mental health system so that people who need treatment get treatment easily, and people who are to unstable to be at large in society (i.e. CT shooter) can be put somewhere safe.

    Bring back mental institutions I say...
     
  12. copykris Suspended

    copykris

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    #12
    but are not designed to do so

    why do you refuse to acknowledge this?
     
  13. Merkava_4 thread starter macrumors 6502a

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    #13
    So are you saying you're perfectly fine with letting a person drive a car who fails the psychological test portion of the firearms background check?
     
  14. rdowns macrumors Penryn

    rdowns

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    #14

    This false equivalency of cars to guns only makes the pro-gun side seem more intransigent.
     
  15. Merkava_4 thread starter macrumors 6502a

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    #15
    The pro-gun side are saying it's not the guns that are shooting up the schools and the movie theaters, it's the mentally ill.
     
  16. OneMike macrumors 601

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    #16
    I think making help more available is part of the solution. If you just ban a mentally ill person from owning, does that stop a mentally ill person from stealing and using the weapons of a non ill person?
     
  17. jeremy h macrumors 6502

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    I don't know enough about the psychological test you're talking about. (Or psychology for that matter.) But take depression for example. If you are discovered to have it (however that comes about) and then it's formally diagnosed, here, you would have to both inform the driving agency and the police if you have a firearms licence. Separate views would be taken by the agencies concerned. (Suicide by car is rare, suicide by gun isn't and there's quite a few cases of people taking others with them). I guess you'd probably be allowed to drive but would almost certainly lose your access to firearms at least temporarily. Anyway, I think we'll just have to agree to disagree on this.
     
  18. elistan macrumors 6502a

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    #18
    Hard to say, not knowing anything about the test. What does it test for? A lack of empathy for other people? Shyness? Asperger's or autism? Grief? Social anxiety? Radical religion?
     
  19. annk Administrator

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    #19
    I think you've misunderstood the rule. Forum rules prohibit you from driving traffic to another site, but there's nothing that prohibits you from supplying a source for this sort of opinion piece. If you don't supply the source, we can't evaluate its reliability.

    Besides, if a site administrator asks you to cite a source, you don't have to worry about getting in trouble for it. ;)
     
  20. boomhower macrumors 68000

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    #20
    I'm extremely pro-gun but equating with drivers licenses is just stupid. I know a lot of good folks who I wouldn't trust with a gun but don't have any issue with them driving. That's just nuts.
     
  21. PracticalMac macrumors 68030

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    #21
    Post name of said forum, no link required.

    ----------

    Considering the vast majorities of the perpetrators had known mental issues, sounds great by me!

    And yes, "crazy" people have used cars to kill, or attempt to kill, people.
     
  22. annk Administrator

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    #22
    Unless there's some particular reason not to (such as we would have to register to see the post), there's no reason not to link to the post itself.
     
  23. jknight8907 macrumors 6502a

    jknight8907

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    #24
    Why does the name of the forum matter? It's just some guy's idea, apparently, and all the applicable content is posted here.
     
  24. rdowns macrumors Penryn

    rdowns

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    #25
    No it's not. Here's the OPs reasoning for starting the thread over there.

     

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