Barbershop Fined For Refusing To Cut Woman’s Hair

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by edk99, Sep 9, 2015.

  1. edk99 macrumors 6502a

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    #1
    http://pittsburgh.cbslocal.com/2015/09/08/barbershop-fined-for-refusing-to-cut-womans-hair/


    Where do you draw the line on discrimination?

    Is it really discrimination if a barbershop only wants to cater to men?

    How about a clothes store for men only? No women is going to walk into Mens Warehouse and demand a women suite.

    I feel in this example discrimination laws have gone to far.
     
  2. jkcerda macrumors 6502

    jkcerda

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    #2
    was he Muslim? Christian?
    was she a minority? Muslim? Christian? Gay?
    some are more "equal" than others :eek:
     
  3. citizenzen, Sep 9, 2015
    Last edited: Sep 9, 2015

    citizenzen macrumors 65816

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    #3
    When the owner describes his business as, "it’s a barbershop… for guys," that's when it's discrimination.

    What does it matter who is sitting in that chair? Hair is hair ... on both men and women.

    There's no reason (given the available details) why he couldn't have given the woman a haircut.

    The owner said ... “You know, I’m not opposed to doing women’s hair,” he explained. “Just not in this shop. I don’t even have [the equipment] to do women’s hair.”

    Really? He doesn't own a pair of scissors or clippers? I'm sure both of those will cut womens' hair.


    Considering that she was denied service, I think you mean less equal.
     
  4. samiwas macrumors 65816

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    #4
    Unfortunately, many people will take a one-size-fits-all determination to what is and isn't discrimination. Refusing to allow black people in your restaurant is discrimination. Refusing to issue a marriage license to a gay couple is discrimination. Not cutting a woman's hair because you are not a woman's hair stylist is not discrimination.

    You do realize that unless it's a woman with a "butch" haircut, that cutting/styling womens' and mens' hair is a pretty different practice. Just as your typical plumber who installs faucets and fixes leaking pipes probably doesn't work on high-pressure gas lines, even though they're both just pipes.

    A barber who is well-versed in cutting old mens' gray wisps or buzzcutting college guys may not have any idea how to give a woman an updo or a pixie cut or fluffed bangs. Just as I am a theatrical lighting lighting designer, but if someone calls me for architectural work, I likely would not take the job because that's not what I know.
     
  5. Renzatic Suspended

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    #5
    I'm thinking the same thing. This situation, which is now stupidly out of hand, would've been ended before it even began if he said something like "alright, take a seat. But don't go blaming anyone but yourself if I give you a terrible haircut, because I'm not used to cutting women's styles". She probably would've turned around and walked out the door right then and there.

    Though there is a chance he was discriminating on sex because olol no chix allowed, or that the woman walked in looking for a fight, and found one.
     
  6. citizenzen macrumors 65816

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    #6
    You said some key things. Unfortunately, the details are missing from the story, so it's impossible to say whether they are germane to this case.

    The barber offers specific services and uses specific tools to perform those services. he's also honed skills through repetition and training that allow him to charge people for his services with the expectation that he can do a competent job.

    So when a woman walks into his shop and asks for a haircut, I have to assume that she's asking for a cut that can be done using the tools he has available and the knowledge and skill he possesses. You can't force someone to perform a service if they don't know how to do it—or at least the customer has to expect a sub-par result.

    If it turns out that she asked for a woman's hair style that the barber did not know how to do, or didn't feel confident in executing, or didn't have the equipment to pull off, then that is not discrimination. If on the other hand, the woman asked for a #2 Fade, and was told that he wouldn't do it because she was a woman, then that is discrimination.

    Details would help. I'm assuming the state agency had those details when they levied the fine.
     
  7. Huntn macrumors G5

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    #7
    While I don't know the details, I imagine if the barber had told her he cuts hair with electric shears and she was good with that, with a short cut, he should have cut her hair, otherwise it is sexual discrimination.
     
  8. cfedu macrumors 65816

    cfedu

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    #8
    That is not true, a mans haircut requires different skills and take less time to cut. Its costs double to dry clean a woman's shirt versus a mans shirt, the reason is not patriarchy, but rather that they are different.

    If the woman had man style hair and was getting a mans hair cut I would considerer it discrimination.
     
  9. citizenzen macrumors 65816

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    #9
    Yeah ... I just said that.

    Alternatively, the barber can offer to stretch his skills to cover the demands ... if he feels so inclined. Otherwise, point to the sign that shows his offerings, and if they don't cover what the customer wants, then that's just tough on the customer.

    Again, knowing the details—that we are not privy to—the state agency leveled the fine. So my first assumption—without further evidence—is that he denied his regular service to a woman simply because she is a woman. More details are welcome.
     
  10. Populism macrumors regular

    Populism

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  11. citizenzen macrumors 65816

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    #11
    So sue them.
     
  12. Populism macrumors regular

    Populism

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    #12
    Why? What did I say that was negative about the female-only gyms?

    Ease up on the trigger finger, chief.
     
  13. cfedu macrumors 65816

    cfedu

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    #13
    Could be, but the skill required for haircut with woman's even with short hair is vastly different from a mans. Unless the woman requested a mans cut, I would not consider this discrimination. Either way, this could have the potential to make woman's only gyms or organizations illegal as well.
     
  14. jkcerda macrumors 6502

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    #14
    how horrible, traffic must be really bad there. :p
     
  15. cfedu macrumors 65816

    cfedu

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    #15
    Why? Because female privilege does not exist. You mentioning facts does not help the professional victim narrative.
     
  16. Renzatic Suspended

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    #16
    [​IMG]
     
  17. jkcerda macrumors 6502

    jkcerda

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    #17
    we have a "sue" happy society. it sucks.
     
  18. citizenzen macrumors 65816

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    #18
    I don't believe that for a moment.

    Yeah ... again ... I just said that.
     
  19. Renzatic Suspended

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    #19
    I'd think so. It doesn't require an entirely different skill set, but it strikes me as a much more indepth process.
     
  20. citizenzen macrumors 65816

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    #20
    Because you're talking about the difference between a typical man's cut versus a typical woman's cut.

    But again, it's never been established what service she actually requested.

    And I have a very hard time believing the business would be fined if she asked for a service they didn't normally provide.
     
  21. cfedu macrumors 65816

    cfedu

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    #21
    As always you are wrong!! A short woman's haircut takes more time a requires more skill. Tell me if you have even got a haircut like the one below?

     
  22. Populism macrumors regular

    Populism

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    #22
    Then it must not be.
     
  23. Renzatic Suspended

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    #23
    This much I can agree with you on. We really don't have much to go on beyond "woman walks into men's barber shop, gets denied, sues for discrimination". There's so much that could've happened in the blank spaces between the lines that could make either party look more justified or ridiculous, depending on the context.
     
  24. jkcerda macrumors 6502

    jkcerda

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    #24
    perhaps she had cooties[​IMG]

    based on the article, the guy did NOT know he was required to service both men & women
     
  25. Eraserhead macrumors G4

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    #25
    If women are allowed women only gyms, men should be allowed men only barbers.
     

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