BART transit workers continue to strike

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by moonman239, Jul 3, 2013.

  1. moonman239 macrumors 68000

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    #1
  2. satcomer macrumors 603

    satcomer

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    #2
    Welcome to real world were Unions inconvenience everyone else in a location. :mad:
     
  3. G51989 macrumors 68030

    G51989

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    #3
    God forbid they want to be treated well and make a decent wage.


    Try a world with no unions, you'll be working 90 hours a week at 3 dollars an hour
     
  4. satcomer macrumors 603

    satcomer

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    #4
    Says who, link please.
     
  5. LIVEFRMNYC macrumors 603

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    #5
    Just ask any undocumented worker.
     
  6. Muscle Master macrumors 6502a

    Muscle Master

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    #6
    True that.. I'm a member of the IAM.. Proudly
     
  7. satcomer macrumors 603

    satcomer

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    #7
    That's not a link.
     
  8. LIVEFRMNYC macrumors 603

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    and I'm not Google or Bing.
     
  9. Dmunjal macrumors 65816

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    BART employees make $71K plus benefits and OT. Is that a living wage? They also have very low attrition rates.
     
  10. jnpy!$4g3cwk macrumors 65816

    jnpy!$4g3cwk

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    I've often been a supporter of unions in recent years, but, I'm not a "unions are always right" person. In this case, the union is being both unreasonable, and, not a smart negotiator.

    http://blog.sfgate.com/cwnevius/2013/07/03/bart-workers-overplay-their-hand/

    BART fares are kind of expensive already, as anyone who has ridden from SFO to downtown SF knows, and, the only place to go for more money is to raise fares. If riders find affordable alternative ways to get to work, they are not very likely to go back to BART if fares have to go up. Workers have a good deal now-- it would be extremely dumb to precipitate a public transit death spiral, where ridership goes down, fares have to go up, routes are cut back, and ridership goes down ever further.

    To me, just from a negotiating standpoint, it doesn't make sense to go on strike for substantially higher wages when inflation during the previous contract period has been very low. There are a lot of people out there right now who wouldn't mind working for BART. The time to strike for higher wages is when the local economy is hot and it is difficult to hire new people.
     
  11. ijohn.8.80 macrumors 65816

    ijohn.8.80

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    This was from last year in regard of the factory that probably assembled your iPad.

     
  12. prostuff1 macrumors 65816

    prostuff1

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    Yes, it is and a very decent one at that.
     
  13. Gutwrench macrumors 65816

    Gutwrench

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    #13
    I agree with your stance on the BART union, but if BART would raise their rates people will pay because there's only so many ways in and out of the City.
     
  14. zin macrumors 6502

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    #14
    Workers that are members of or represented by unions earn on average 28% more than those in comparable jobs.
    Source: US Department of Labor, Bureau of Labor Statistics

    Union workers are 18.3% more likely to have health insurance, 22.5% more likely to have pension coverage, and 3.2% more likely to have paid leave.
    Source: The State of Working America 08-09 (page 8).

    Maybe you should join a union, you may realise that all they're trying to do is to fight for better wages and fairer labour treatment.

    Points of interest that were coincidentally omitted from the OP's article:

    • During the recession, workers sacrificed $100 million in wage increases and other benefits. But over the past three years, BART has seen a surplus in its budget, as ridership revenue and sales tax revenue rise. But the workers haven't seen a pay increase in four years. Source: Amalgamated Transit Union, AlterNet
    • As BART officials have inflated the salary figures of BART train operators and station agents to an average of $71,000 annually, the SF Examinerreported workers make a maximum of $62,000 annually. While this still may seem like a decent salary, a family of four living in the Bay Area need $74,341 a year just to get by. Source: AlterNet
    • The negotiations and strike action are not just for better pay, but also safer working conditions: Since 2009, BART employee injuries have risen 43 percent. Meanwhile assaults on station agents went from nine percent to 31 percent last year. These attacks include rape and homicide.
     
  15. LIVEFRMNYC macrumors 603

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    Damn, someone from the UK just took an American to school.
     
  16. astrorider macrumors 6502

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    Why is cost of living always left out of these comparisons? If non-union workers in these studies reside in right-to-work states with lower cost of living, isn't it completely disingenuous to compare non-union and union wages?

    For example, California has a COL that's 35% higher than the national average...no wonder union workers there are paid higher than non-union workers in say, Arizona:
    http://www.top50states.com/cost-of-living-by-state.html
     
  17. Eraserhead macrumors G4

    Eraserhead

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    #17
    Nice high-quality source there ;).

    Plus board, lodging and entertainment - making the £1.12/hour entirely disposable income. To bring this back on topic if you live in the bay area you probably have to earn quite a lot to have an equivalent quality of life.

    Given they have hundreds of thousands of employees on site that gives a lower suicide rate than all 50 US states, the UK and China as a whole.

    I'm sure subsistence farming is boring too.
     
  18. ijohn.8.80 macrumors 65816

    ijohn.8.80

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    I am not in the UK, is there something wrong with that particular media source, please tell me it's not one of those papers that prints stories like "Elvis seen flying a UFO at Brighton Beach?"

    You lost me there squire. Yes, they also have to pay for accommodation and food, if that's what you were trying to say.

    How many citizens in the Western world are committing suicide to draw attention to their working conditions?
     
  19. gsugolfer macrumors 6502a

    gsugolfer

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    #19
    There are no unions in the accounting profession, and we do just fine.

    ----------

    Then you're hurting the low-income families who rely on public transportation because they can't afford a car.
     
  20. Gutwrench macrumors 65816

    Gutwrench

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    I must not have been clear. I'm not supporting a raise in BART fares but expressing a comment that riders will pay the increase because they have no real alternative because there are limited ways to get into and out of SF. It's just the unique nature of the City. I commuted across the GGB for over ten years.
     
  21. jeremy h macrumors 6502

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    Ah, the true professions... I would consider them to be some of the most effective organisations in applying restrictive practises and mass negotiation tactics.

    For example the BMA (British Medical Association) - the 'professional body' that represents doctors is probably one of the most effective union organisations in this country. They utterly out negotiated the previous government on GP contracts and have completely stitched up the NHS and the public here in the UK in recent years.

    I think it was GB Shaw who said "All professions are conspiracies against the laity"

    Back on the subject of transport workers - I think in Australia a few years ago when they went on strike the transport workers turned up but refused to collect fares. That's something that should be copied if there's going to be a strike on public transport systems. Hits the bosses right where it hurts the most - in their big fat bonuses and keeps everyone moving.
     
  22. gsugolfer macrumors 6502a

    gsugolfer

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    #22
    You're advocating they steal from their employer?
     
  23. thehustleman macrumors 65816

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    #23

    basically. In theory unions are great, but in actuality.....





    1. They make more than a "decent" wager

    2. If unions never existed you are correct since unions got those laws passed along with plenty of others. But if they vanished now it would be better off







    very much so!





    You can talk your pro union stuff but stuff like that is only true when the union actually does what they're supposed to do.


    I haven't missed a scheduled day of work since I was 21 (I'm not 31) and when I almost did when I worked a union job 4 years ago I was told to go to the hospital, come to work, or find another job. Never mind the fact that I was part time and couldn't get benefits from the company. I came to work with my 103 degree temperature.


    Union jobs ALWAYS have that one person that's been there forever that's putting forth mediocre or worse work. Sometimes not even that good. But there's always someone or some others putting forth much better work with a much better work ethic but getting screwed over on promotions because if that lazy mf wants the job, most of the time union contracts say the person with most seniority has first dibs at it.

    Then even with a promotion, that old mediocre or worse performer STILL makes more than that hard worker.

    Unions make it hard to simply cut that mediocre worker loose and bring in someone willing to actually work!





    This is true




    No one said anything about stealing, he said not collecting fares
     
  24. ugahairydawgs macrumors 68020

    ugahairydawgs

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    Giving away the service for free = stealing. You aren't sticking a wad of cash in your pocket, but the result is the same.
     
  25. Mac'nCheese macrumors 68030

    Mac'nCheese

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    #25
    Isnt that a good compromise though? All the anti-union people keep posting about how this hurts the poor since they can't get to work. So, you do a half-ass strike. Still provide the service, but shut down the revenue.
     

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