Being able to do math is White Privilege.....


BeeGood

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Lot 23E. Somewhere in Georgia.
On many levels, mathematics itself operates as whiteness. Who gets credit for doing and developing mathematics, who is capable in mathematics, and who is seen as part of the mathematical community is generally viewed as white,” she writes.
What’s tragic about this is that she seems to be completely clueless about the fact that algebra, perhaps the most important math that anyone learns, has Arabic origins.

This woman should be fired immediately. I’m not even exaggerating. The sheer stupidity of her quotes is unbelievable for someone in academia. Not to mention completely insulting and patronizing for every single minority who excels at and enjoys math.
 

LIVEFRMNYC

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I'm just judging some of the quotes direct from the OP link. I think some of what she's speaking on is true.


I agree with these two statements.

In the book Gutierrez points out that mathematics operates as a proxy for intelligence, but asks, “are we really that smart just because we do mathematics?”

“As researchers, are we more deserving of large grants because we focus on mathematics education and not social studies or English?”
Gutierrez says evaluations of math skills can perpetuate discrimination against minorities, especially if they do worse than their white counterparts, Campus Reform reported.

“If one is not viewed as mathematical, there will always be a sense of inferiority that can be summoned” because the average person won't necessarily question the role of mathematics in society, she writes.

According to the website, Gutierrez adds that there are so many people who “have experienced microaggressions from participating in math classrooms… [where people are] judged by whether they can reason abstractly.”






Do I think she makes a good or bad point towards any connection or comparison to White Privilege? I would have to read more from her to conclude that. But whether I agree with her or not, it's seems interesting.

“School mathematics curricula emphasizing terms like Pythagorean Theorem and pi perpetuate a perception that mathematics was largely developed by Greeks and other Europeans," she says, according to Campus Reform.
“On many levels, mathematics itself operates as whiteness. Who gets credit for doing and developing mathematics, who is capable in mathematics, and who is seen as part of the mathematical community is generally viewed as white,” she writes.

Further, she says mathematics operates with unearned privilege in society, “just like whiteness.”
 
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Populism

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She’s an idiot. And a racist. And should be fired.

But...

I’ll say this - as one of the more conservative voices on this board who calls ********* on cisgender crap, accusations of racism if you disagreed with quantitative easing, etc. - I worry about the way the one-off incident gives rise to the populist pitchfork fest.

One nazi acts nazi, and it paints all non-Bernie Sanders supporters as nazis.

One liberal hates whites, and it paints all non-Trump voters as THE EVIL.

Anywhos, i reserve the right to change my mind or edit this or watch TV.

Just tired of bringing out THE MOB for the acts of one. It’s literally Populism at its most grotesque.

No offense Herdfan. I think I normally agree with you. For what it’s worth.
 

iMi

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There are idiots in all camps. Liberal, conservative and everybody between.
I agree, but the distribution varies greatly. One political group in particular attracts stupid at an alarming rate.
[doublepost=1508892527][/doublepost]Fox News is absolutely taking her comments out of context.

First, they actually linked to the published work where the talk about mathematics playing a role in white privilege. Apparently the work is a result of many years of collaboration among 40 scholars. It's a multivolume publication that aims to create a framework for educators to help reach the underserved segments of the population more effectively.

So, please tell me again how she's an idiot?

She's quite brilliant and well respected. So, maybe instead of reading a sound bite from a "news" agency well known to twist facts to suit their own narrative, I suggest we all read at least the executive summary of the work they cited as source of the comment.

I am very much willing to bet they took these comments out of context.
 

Populism

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I agree, but the distribution varies greatly. One political group in particular attracts stupid at an alarming rate.
[doublepost=1508892527][/doublepost]Fox News is absolutely taking her comments out of context.

First, they actually linked to the published work where the talk about mathematics playing a role in white privilege. Apparently the work is a result of many years of collaboration among 40 scholars. It's a multivolume publication that aims to create a framework for educators to help reach the underserved segments of the population more effectively.

So, please tell me again how she's an idiot?

She's quite brilliant and well respected. So, maybe instead of reading a sound bite from a "news" agency well known to twist facts to suit their own narrative, I suggest we all read at least the executive summary of the work they cited as source of the comment.

I am very much willing to bet they took these comments out of context.
So, now that you went there:

We’re her comments out of context or in context.
 

citizenzen

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I agree with the provost ...
“As with all of our faculty at the University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign, Prof. Gutierrez has the rights of academic freedom necessary to pursue scholarship and research on important subjects and to reach conclusions even if some might disagree with those conclusions,” he said.
He added,
“The issues around equity and access in education are real – with significant implications to our entire educational system. Exploring challenging pedagogical questions is exactly what faculty in a world-class college of education should be doing.”
I have not problem with professors probing deeply into arcane subjects, especially amongst their peers. Who is better equipped to explore these questions and to challenge conventional wisdom and comfortable assumptions?
 
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iMi

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So, now that you went there:

We’re her comments out of context or in context.
LOL... The document is a large multivolume science paper.

I am not going to buy it and read it, but it sounds like she's talking about the stereotypes and how certain aspects of science education, as in Mathematics, are seen as "white" studies. It talks about the contexts (at least according to the summary) of how even the names of mathematic theorem, equations and other terminology sound like they were invented by Europeans (read: white people). She's talking about creating new approaches that would make mathematics more approachable and relatable to those who are underserved in this field of study (read: minorities).

She's making a good point if anyone cares to listen. It's about making mathematics a more broadly approachable study and not just something white people (no doubt white man) primarily see as relatable.

It's about access to mathematics.

That's what I got form skimming the summary. I'm sure the study is much more nuanced. I may be interpreting it wrong as well, but that's the whole point. Let's really try to understand what she's talking about before calling her an idiot.

She's a doctor. A scientist. A scholar. A tenured professor. She's a one smart women, so anyone calling her an idiot really should reconsider and think about it a little longer than 0.03 second.

Or... realize the source is Fox News, the topic is science and the comments are made by a smart woman. Two things Fox News does not do handle well, so just move on. They are certain to be full of **** on this one.
 

Populism

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LOL... The document is a large multivolume science paper.

I am not going to buy it and read it, but it sounds like she's talking about the stereotypes and how certain aspects of science education, as in Mathematics, are seen as "white" studies. It talks about the contexts (at least according to the summary) of how even the names of mathematic theorem, equations and other terminology sound like they were invented by Europeans (read: white people). She's talking about creating new approaches that would make mathematics more approachable and relatable to those who are underserved in this field of study (read: minorities).

She's making a good point if anyone cares to listen. It's about making mathematics a more broadly approachable study and not just something white people (no doubt white man) primarily see as relatable.

It's about access to mathematics.

That's what I got form skimming the summary. I'm sure the study is much more nuanced. I may be interpreting it wrong as well, but that's the whole point. Let's really try to understand what she's talking about before calling her an idiot.

She's a doctor. A scientist. A scholar. A tenured professor. She's a one smart women, so anyone calling her an idiot really should reconsider and think about it a little longer than 0.03 second.

Or... realize the source is Fox News, the topic is science and the comments are made by a smart woman. Two things Fox News does not do handle well, so just move on. They are certain to be full of **** on this one.
So, you won’t answer the question you insinuated.

Enjoyed your thesis, bro.
 
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citizenzen

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LOL... The document is a large multivolume science paper.

I am not going to buy it and read it, but it sounds like she's talking about the stereotypes and how certain aspects of science education, as in Mathematics, are seen as "white" studies. It talks about the contexts (at least according to the summary) of how even the names of mathematic theorem, equations and other terminology sound like they were invented by Europeans (read: white people). She's talking about creating new approaches that would make mathematics more approachable and relatable to those who are underserved in this field of study (read: minorities).

She's making a good point if anyone cares to listen. It's about making mathematics a more broadly approachable study and not just something white people (no doubt white man) primarily see as relatable.

It's about access to mathematics.

That's what I got form skimming the summary. I'm sure the study is much more nuanced. I may be interpreting it wrong as well, but that's the whole point. Let's really try to understand what she's talking about before calling her an idiot.

She's a doctor. A scientist. A scholar. A tenured professor. She's a one smart women, so anyone calling her an idiot really should reconsider and think about it a little longer than 0.03 second.

Or... realize the source is Fox News, the topic is science and the comments are made by a smart woman. Two things Fox News does not do handle well, so just move on. They are certain to be full of **** on this one.
This is similar to how people reacted to the scientist given a big grant to put shrimp on treadmills. The purpose of the study and information gleaned from it was overshadowed by the seemingly ridiculous nature of the investigation.
 

iMi

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This is similar to how people reacted to the scientist given a big grant to put shrimp on treadmills. The purpose of the study and information gleaned from it was overshadowed by the seemingly ridiculous nature of the investigation.
People jump to conclusions. Plus, we all seek confirmation bias. It's human nature. We hear a word or a sentence and immediately make assumptions. We all do it, especially when the issue is emotionally charged (as in this case) or challenge a deeply accepted belief system. There is a reason why Copernicus published his greatest work on heliocentric theory after his death. They would have killed him and burned his work.

We can try it to prove a point.

You'd say Trump... (I immediately think idiot, moron, con artist, sexual predator) as you finish... just saved a drowning baby (I'd think the baby probably owed him money. Who borrows money from a baby!? Scumbag). See what I mean? I have preconceived ideas about Trump and anything that challenges that notion is very much filtered out. :D:D:D
 

yaxomoxay

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I am more concerned about the fact that our kids see vloggers, youtubers, and not-so talented “celebrities” as role models.
I don’t think many students ask themselves the question “who’s Euclides?” if not in the context of “who the **** is this Euclides that made up this **** that now this ****ing teacher wants me to ****ing learn even if I will never use it in my ****ing life?”
 
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hulugu

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So, Campus Reform, a website linked to the Leadership Institute, "training conservatives since 1979" apparently snagged some quotes from a 359 page book devoted to teaching mathematics and Fox News decided to get the rabble to light their torches and go dig the pitchforks out of the haystacks.

Here's the thing. How many people know who invented the Pythagorean theorem? How many people know who Muhammad ibn Musa al-Khwarizmi was?

Many people have at least vaguely heard of Ptolemy, but very few people outside of Islamic studies know about Ibn al-Haytham, who realized that our eyes did not emit light and whose research on optics helped influence Francis Bacon and Galileo, just to name a few.

The current cannon of mathematics, science, and philosophy taught at grade schools is largely focused on a handful of white men, ignoring other important figures from the rest of the world.

This is a mistake, and Rochelle Gutierrez wants teachers to consider some underlying politics when they teach math, so that they can do a better job.

That's really the sum of her argument in her book, parts of which are available for your perusal here.
[doublepost=1508898566][/doublepost]
I am more concerned about the fact that our kids see vloggers, youtubers, and not-so talented “celebrities” as role models.
I don’t think many students ask themselves the question “who’s Euclides?” if not in the context of “who the **** is this Euclides that made up this **** that now this ****ing teacher wants me to ****ing learn even if I will never use it in my ****ing life?”
Her argument is that by understanding the "political knowledge" in math, teachers can better explain the importance of math to their students, their parents, and school administrators.

She might be wrong, but again, let's not take some choice quotes grabbing up by a blog that seems intent on making her look ridiculous, as her total argument.
 

iMi

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I am more concerned about the fact that our kids see vloggers, youtubers, and not-so talented “celebrities” as role models.
I don’t think many students ask themselves the question “who’s Euclides?” if not in the context of “who the **** is this Euclides that made up this **** that now this ****ing teacher wants me to ****ing learn even if I will never use it in my ****ing life?”
You know, I think it's all about the parents. Kids have natural curiosity. They crave learning. Sure, they love entertainment, too. We all do. You know, the saying that a mind is a terrible thing to waste is so true.

Our little one asked why the sun goes down. We ended up talking about Copernicus and Galileo. If you ask her today she's proudly tell you that the sun goes down because the earth rotates on its axis. She's two and a half... It's super precious and she loves to learn.

Parents have a huge responsibility to share the next generation...
 

yaxomoxay

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So, Campus Reform, a website linked to the Leadership Institute, "training conservatives since 1979" apparently snagged some quotes from a 359 page book devoted to teaching mathematics and Fox News decided to get the rabble to light their torches and go dig the pitchforks out of the haystacks.

Here's the thing. How many people know who invented the Pythagorean theorem? How many people know who Muhammad ibn Musa al-Khwarizmi was?

Many people have at least vaguely heard of Ptolemy, but very few people outside of Islamic studies know about Ibn al-Haytham, who realized that our eyes did not emit light and whose research on optics helped influence Francis Bacon and Galileo, just to name a few.

The current cannon of mathematics, science, and philosophy taught at grade schools is largely focused on a handful of white men, ignoring other important figures from the rest of the world.

This is a mistake, and Rochelle Gutierrez wants teachers to consider some underlying politics when they teach math, so that they can do a better job.

That's really the sum of her argument in her book, parts of which are available for your perusal here.
[doublepost=1508898566][/doublepost]

Her argument is that by understanding the "political knowledge" in math, teachers can better explain the importance of math to their students, their parents, and school administrators.

She might be wrong, but again, let's not take some choice quotes grabbing up by a blog that seems intent on making her look ridiculous, as her total argument.
She’s not wrong in the sentiment, at least I don’t think she is. She’s wrong in the way she’s explaining the problem, based on the few info we have.
The problem is that school is dogmatic, which is the opposite of what it should be. Teaching the Greeks is not a problem; the problem is that it does not feed the curiosity of “what about the Chinese (or whatever)?”.
 

hulugu

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You know, I think it's all about the parents. Kids have natural curiosity. They crave learning. Sure, they love entertainment, too. We all do. You know, the saying that a mind is a terrible thing to waste is so true.

Our little one asked why the sun goes down. We ended up talking about Copernicus and Galileo. If you ask her today she's proudly tell you that the sun goes down because the earth rotates on its axis. She's two and a half... It's super precious and she loves to learn.

Parents have a huge responsibility to share the next generation...
Right. As we prepared for the eclipse, my son built a model out of toys in his room to prove to another kid in his class that it was actually the Moon that would block the Sun.

The larger question has been how people are taught that math is a talent, rather than a skill. Sure, some people are really, really good at it—like my buddy who teaches high-energy physics, or they're like me, they can do just enough math to build a shed. (I did well in statistics and trig, but it took a lot of study.)

This is one of the issues that Gutierrez mentions, that isn't covered by Fox News.
 
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yaxomoxay

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You know, I think it's all about the parents. Kids have natural curiosity. They crave learning. Sure, they love entertainment, too. We all do. You know, the saying that a mind is a terrible thing to waste is so true.

Our little one asked why the sun goes down. We ended up talking about Copernicus and Galileo. If you ask her today she's proudly tell you that the sun goes down because the earth rotates on its axis. She's two and a half... It's super precious and she loves to learn.

Parents have a huge responsibility to share the next generation...
My kids are fairly curious, but unfortunately when they meet other kids in junior high and high school some of the curiosity vanes as they have to be more “popular”. My teenager doesn’t really care about popularity (he would dress much better!), but I see that the “popularity” concept is there and it’s a burden on teenager themselves even those who don’t care.
(Also, I already told the story of when he got in trouble because the teacher did not accept that he wanted to read a book in class after he finished the test and had to wait on the other kids)
 
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iMi

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So, Campus Reform, a website linked to the Leadership Institute, "training conservatives since 1979" apparently snagged some quotes from a 359 page book devoted to teaching mathematics and Fox News decided to get the rabble to light their torches and go dig the pitchforks out of the haystacks.

Here's the thing. How many people know who invented the Pythagorean theorem? How many people know who Muhammad ibn Musa al-Khwarizmi was?

Many people have at least vaguely heard of Ptolemy, but very few people outside of Islamic studies know about Ibn al-Haytham, who realized that our eyes did not emit light and whose research on optics helped influence Francis Bacon and Galileo, just to name a few.

The current cannon of mathematics, science, and philosophy taught at grade schools is largely focused on a handful of white men, ignoring other important figures from the rest of the world.

This is a mistake, and Rochelle Gutierrez wants teachers to consider some underlying politics when they teach math, so that they can do a better job.

That's really the sum of her argument in her book, parts of which are available for your perusal here.
[doublepost=1508898566][/doublepost]

Her argument is that by understanding the "political knowledge" in math, teachers can better explain the importance of math to their students, their parents, and school administrators.

She might be wrong, but again, let's not take some choice quotes grabbing up by a blog that seems intent on making her look ridiculous, as her total argument.
Brilliant comments. I would add that it's not only political knowledge but also cultural identity that may have been accepted as being integral part of certain realms of science. Mathematics, in this case, have a sort of white identity. If you can help other social groups overcome that psychological barrier then you can help them achieve their best potential and therefore positively influence the field itself.

I think that's the point of this entire research.
 

yaxomoxay

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.
The larger question has been how people are taught that math is a talent, rather than a skill.
Everything, not only math.
I think that stories such as Harry Potter (which I do like) are more damaging than not because they basically discuss predestination and fulfilling own’s destiny.
Good will hunting is another example.
Put in the mix Karate Kid (one month of training and you can beat up the champion who trained for a lifetime... and when kids join Karate they learn fast that it’s not the case and give up).
All movies that I love, but I don’t think should set the example.
 

hulugu

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She’s not wrong in the sentiment, at least I don’t think she is. She’s wrong in the way she’s explaining the problem, based on the few info we have.
The problem is that school is dogmatic, which is the opposite of what it should be. Teaching the Greeks is not a problem; the problem is that it does not feed the curiosity of “what about the Chinese (or whatever)?”.
Well, I just read a good chunk of her intro, and that's basically what she's saying, by focusing on a few characters, and then on testing, math teachers may be failing some students. Also, that's literally the only time she mentions the Greeks.

It's probably not the best argument per se, but it's really not her central point. And, again, Campus Reform is cherry-picking her quotes in a way to make her look bad.
 
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