Bernie: gov’t must guarantee everyone a decent job, education, housing, healthcare, retirement

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by Rogifan, Jun 12, 2019.

  1. Rogifan macrumors Core

    Rogifan

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    #1
    LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL
     
  2. VulchR macrumors 68020

    VulchR

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  3. macsmurf macrumors 65816

    macsmurf

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    #3
    Isn't this pretty standard in developed nations except for the job thing?
     
  4. Rogifan thread starter macrumors Core

    Rogifan

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    #4
    Guaranteed by government?
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    And where exactly is this in the constitution or bill of rights?
     
  5. Huntn macrumors P6

    Huntn

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    #5
    I’d say the decent job in part, has to do with a decent education and making effort. :)
     
  6. tpham5919 macrumors regular

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    #6
    What's a decent job? Am I entitled to said job even if I'm not qualified to perform it? Can I sue Bernie if I'm not allowed to do such job?
     
  7. Chew Toy McCoy macrumors regular

    Chew Toy McCoy

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    #7
    In the US we're pretty much trying to win the race to the bottom on everything except personal wealth hoarding and blowing things up, and don't you dare try to do anything that threatens or hinders either of those.
     
  8. jkcerda macrumors 6502a

    jkcerda

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    #8
    ok, where is the plan? how does he plan to accomplish it?
     
  9. macsmurf macrumors 65816

    macsmurf

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    #9
    Yup.
     
  10. Rogifan thread starter macrumors Core

    Rogifan

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    #10
    The United States is not a socialist country and will never become one.
     
  11. Cycom macrumors 6502

    Cycom

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    #11
    Bernie is off his rocker. Needs to put down his crack pipe.
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    We can only hope.
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    Did you just hear this from one of your community college professors?
    --- Post Merged, Jun 12, 2019 ---
    Many here don’t want to be like that.
     
  12. LordVic, Jun 12, 2019
    Last edited: Jun 12, 2019

    LordVic macrumors 603

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    #12
    yup. In many developed nations, Many of those things are guaranteed by the government.

    decent job, education, housing, healthcare, retirement

    bolded the ones Canada tries to guarantee all citizens.

    We get free, and often considered quite good *(could be better in some places, it's always a work in progress) education from K-12.

    During the course of our working career, we do pay a tax (CPP), that goes directly towards retirement savings that gets paid back out once you claim it (usually 65). Combined with some tax free RRSP savings during a career, you can have decent retirement (though cirmcustances vary, as with income, retirement is better the more you can save for it)

    And we've all talked about Canadian Healthcare. It's not perfect and need some help and funding. But everyone in Canada is guaranteed that the health care they get, especially emergency, and preventative care, will be funded via the population to keep cost down for everyone.

    We do TRY to do housing. But, we, at least in Toronto area have sorely been lacking at ensuring affordable housing is available. The race to profit off insane housing pricing has left the city and population "forgetting" that poor people need to live in the city area too. But this isn't really a new problem. we DO try and house the homeless and ensure everyone has a roof over their heads, we're just not great at it.

    "Decent Job" is the OUTCOME of providing all above. By ensuring that our population is well educated, healthy and not afraid of their own future, they can focus on "pulling up by their bootstraps" and actually WORK to get a decent job, with as many people as possible on an even playing field.


    Edit: just checking my news for the day and see that big topic today is the Federal government is wanting to institute national pharmacare as well. Good Move.
     
  13. Glockworkorange macrumors 68000

    Glockworkorange

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    #13
    The Soviets tried this. All of it. Bernie is just repackaging communist ideas from the Cold War.
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    What's the solution? More $. That's always the solution---there's never enough of other people's money.
     
  14. chagla macrumors 6502a

    chagla

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    #14
    It's funny how everyone question about money when it comes to social welfare programs in general but virtually nooooone questions military budget.
     
  15. raqball macrumors 68000

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    #15
    No, no, no.. He has a plan!

    [​IMG]

    :eek: :D :p
     
  16. yaxomoxay macrumors 68040

    yaxomoxay

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    #16
    And yet, most people come to the US than Canada... or anywhere else for the matter.
     
  17. EEzycade macrumors regular

    EEzycade

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    #17
    No, no, no! Oh my goodness. History has shown, it(socialism) NEVER works! He’s an idiot
     
  18. Cycom macrumors 6502

    Cycom

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    #18
    In the warped minds of many leftists, it’s just never been implemented the correct way. This time, they foolishly believe, it will be different.
     
  19. A.Goldberg macrumors 68020

    A.Goldberg

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    #19
    Education- I believe people should have access to free, quality, K-12 education- and probably offer pre-K and maybe even nursery school. As I’ve said many times before here, higher education should be treated and considered as an investment in one’s future. That said, prospective students and their parents should have extensive education on affordable college and affordable education should be easily accessible. There also needs to be education on determining the value of an educational program- there are so many schools and programs that take advantage of less savvy prospects. I tend to have a problem with the cost of college being determined by one’s parents financial situation. Non-college education such as apprenticeships and technical programs should be encouraged as a viable and respectable career choice.

    Healthcare- I’m beginning to get frustrated with politicians who don’t understand the complexities of the healthcare system and in general medical treatment and pathophysiology being the ones speaking about how they plan on solving our healthcare problems. I don’t see healthcare as a “right”, but it is an obligation and responsibility we owe our citizens as the world’s richest country to provide a basic level of healthcare.

    That said it’s not really feasible to have free/affordable, cutting edge/quality, healthcare for everyone. There are however improvements that could be made to reduce costs and therefore improve accessibility. I absolutely don’t want to see a government run, single payer system with no private insurance market as Bernie and other progressives has proposed in the past. Just look to US government run healthcare programs to see all the problems ranging from inefficiencies to making the best treatments virtually inaccessible to providers avoiding said insurance due to reimbursement rates and paperwork that are just not worth dealing with.

    I expect we’ll have some sort of universal healthcare system in the future, I see that as an inevitability. But more comprehensive care needs to be available at reasonable cost for those willing to pay. Additionally instituting universal government managed healthcare without finding ways to reasonably control costs creates a system doomed for failure.

    Housing- obviously everyone needs places to live. It would be nice to see programs to aid low income families in buying property. Renting has its benefits but in terms of building wealth it’s a waste of money.

    Jobs- I’m not sure how the government can guarantee jobs to individuals... unless this is actually code for guaranteed income which I morally can’t agree with.

    ———

    I have a problem with people expecting the government to hand them everything they need. There seems to be a growing demonization of the wealthy, citing them as the cause for individuals perceived unfair circumstances. Some of the conversations I overhear IRL and comments I read on the internet are sometimes troubling.

    Certainly there are societal problems that need to be addressed. I think it’s fair to say its a problem that giant corporations and the ultra wealthy are not paying a reasonable amount of taxes (which ultimately is a failure of our elected lawmakers). Certainly there are societal barriers to the underprivileged from excelling. And it’s evident to me low wages encourage dependence on government programs, which can discourage working all together.

    I have a coworker, she’s a CNA- certified nursing assistant, not exactly a glorious job. She had a rough childhood, is currently single mother in her late 20’s, and her child has health problems. She told me she could effectively make more money if she didn’t work and accepted all the welfare support otherwise available (CNA’s avg salary in Boston is reportedly ~$35k/yr or ~$17/hr). She has future aspirations though and she knows not working will not benefit her goals.

    I’m all for providing permanent social support to those that are incapable of providing for themselves. But when it comes to welfare programs I’d prefer to see these programs encourage people to become self sufficient, rather than dependent. I’m not saying all people on welfare are not hard workers or making efforts to escape poverty- in fact it’s often the opposite, such as the aforementioned case. But there is a population of capable people who’d rather live off welfare programs than commit to a career and the welfare cycle is a legitimate problem. At the same time, it’s a difficult cycle to get out of.
     
  20. macsmurf macrumors 65816

    macsmurf

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    #20
    ...Which is fair enough. That just results in the people arguing for a stronger social safety net to never be elected. My point was that most of these proposed rights already exist and work in many countries so they are certainly attainable if enough people were willing.
     
  21. yaxomoxay macrumors 68040

    yaxomoxay

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    #21
    Another sensible post of yours.
    Only one observation, on Housing. I disagree that low income families should be helped in buying proprieties; the reason is that buying a property = debt (unless the gov’t pays for 100% of it), which is the LAST thing a low-income (heck, or a middle class) family should incur in. I understand the wealth building part of buying houses, but if obtaining a credit line to buy houses is too easy - or the debt is partially reduced - you risk to have thousands of families to hold serious amounts of debt on overpriced housing which in turn might cause them to get into a worst situation should another recession hit (or WHEN the next recession hits).
     
  22. kapolani macrumors 6502

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    #22
    How does this 'free' stuff work again.

    Do the funds to pay for all this just magically appear out of thin air?

    I don't get how you people think free stuff is free.

    Someone always has to pay for it.
     
  23. samcraig, Jun 13, 2019
    Last edited: Jun 13, 2019

    samcraig macrumors P6

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    #23
    I've said this before in other threads. When it comes to welfare - those who are genuinely unable to work should be able to access assistance. Those who can work, the government needs to do a better job of getting them back to work in order to receive benefits. Get them trained in a skill - in this country, there's no shortage of work that needs to be done when it comes to assisting with infrastructure (working on roads, bridges, trains, etc) for example. Many people who can't find a job want to work and earn their money. It's a sense of pride. And additional trade skills (for example) can help them when they no longer need assistance. This would also create jobs since this program would required administration and training resources.

    I'm not for the government guaranteeing jobs with salaries. I am in favor of the government overhauling how welfare works so that it's a productive resource for those who can work.
     
  24. Glockworkorange macrumors 68000

    Glockworkorange

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    #24
    I question military budgets all the time. We have a disastrous F-35 program and all kinds of boondoggles plus a portion of the US government pushing for intervention and war everywhere. The idea that people who criticize excessive social spending also support endless military spending and war is juvenile and, with all due respect, mildly ignorant.
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    Agree. There should be social safety nets. But they should be disincentivized.
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    The government already subsidizes housing in the form of Section 8 housing. If you’ve ever lived in a large-ish city and seen a building without a section 8, which is normal folks and those on insistence living in the same building, you might question the wisdom of the program.

    The truth nobody wants to acknowledge is there is a culture of poverty that trumps race. NOT ALL POOR PEOPLE, but a sizeable portion with pathologies that bring those pathologies with them and turn “there” to “here.” Fatherlessness, drug addiction, crime, lack of respect for educational establishments, etc. etc. It can be the inner city or the holler in Kentucky.
     
  25. blackfox macrumors 65816

    blackfox

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    #25
    it has been, and still partially is.
     

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