Bernie Sanders’ Loan Bailout Would Benefit Colleges, Not Students

jkcerda

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https://thelibertarianrepublic.com/bernie-sanders-loan-bailout-would-benefit-colleges-not-students/?fbclid=IwAR0QebPxalZSL5NuExgymu6tZhx9mg6yDzCcMGCQucO3r4LUa9gMwVZ2M_8
Young Americans are being crushed by student loan debt. Unfortunately, a new bailout proposal wouldn’t help them much in the long term.

On Monday, Sen. Bernie Sanders, I-Vt., and Rep. Ilhan Omar, D-Minn., introduced legislation to wipe out every dollar of student loan debt in the United States, eliminating it for roughly 45 million Americans. Additionally, the proposal would make public colleges and community colleges tuition-free.

In a press conference announcing the proposal, Sanders said, “The American people bailed out Wall Street. Now it is time for Wall Street to come to the aid of the middle-class people of this country.”
this is the problem
The reason schools keep raising their tuition is that students have easy access to federal student loans, and the government has a near-monopoly on the sector. Colleges know they can keep raising tuition without fear of losing students because federal loans serve as a guaranteed subsidy
 

LordVic

macrumors 603
Sep 7, 2011
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I think there needs to be some level of loan forgiveness due to abuse of students by financial institutions and the schools constnatly jacking up prices to enrich their own administration

but just wiping away the loans doesn't solve the problem. keep wiping away the loans, and schools will continue to raise tuitions to keep reaping more unreasonable money for their top brass.

Want to make a massive real difference in the issues surrounding school costs, lifetime crippling debt, and the abuse by school officials of monetary policy for that school? Start regulating tuition costs. stop letting them jack prices up to stupid unreasonable levels.

you'll find that keeping university tuition costs lower has massive benefits for society. You get a more educated population capable of better, more technological innovation and advancement. You have lower debt levels to achieve this as students won't need to rack up 50-150k in school debt just to be educated. Which means more of their money is theirs once they graduate and start working. Which means also more money in the economy directly as they have more disposable income, quicker in their careers to spend. Which will help also with being able to afford housing.

Right now, Having such ridiculously artificially high education costs is nothing more than a detterent to prevent more people from getting educated and an attempt to keep the population dumb and placid.
 
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appleisking

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May 24, 2013
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This is stupid. Not fair to the people who diligently paid off their loans and presents a moral hazard problem for future borrowers. If the government is just going to bail them out then why should they worry about borrowing insurmountable amounts? Get rid of the federal student loan program period.
 
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Solver

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Jan 6, 2004
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This is stupid. Not fair to the people who diligently paid off their loans and presents a moral hazard problem for future borrowers. If the government is just going to bail them out then why should they worry about borrowing insurmountable amounts? Get rid of the federal student loan program period.
It’s not stupid. It’s devilishly smart. Using other’s people money to attract more Democrat votes. Most of their latest ideals seem based on this premise. How else can they stop the next “Trump situation.” The “morally superior” ones will use any means necessary to do this. Morals be dammed! Those who do not yet see the light will not get in their way or change their minds.

Of course in the longer term, I agree. It is stupid.
 

BoxerGT2.5

macrumors 68000
Jun 4, 2008
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I think there needs to be some level of loan forgiveness due to abuse of students by financial institutions and the schools constnatly jacking up prices to enrich their own administration

but just wiping away the loans doesn't solve the problem. keep wiping away the loans, and schools will continue to raise tuitions to keep reaping more unreasonable money for their top brass.

Want to make a massive real difference in the issues surrounding school costs, lifetime crippling debt, and the abuse by school officials of monetary policy for that school? Start regulating tuition costs. stop letting them jack prices up to stupid unreasonable levels.

you'll find that keeping university tuition costs lower has massive benefits for society. You get a more educated population capable of better, more technological innovation and advancement. You have lower debt levels to achieve this as students won't need to rack up 50-150k in school debt just to be educated. Which means more of their money is theirs once they graduate and start working. Which means also more money in the economy directly as they have more disposable income, quicker in their careers to spend. Which will help also with being able to afford housing.

Right now, Having such ridiculously artificially high education costs is nothing more than a detterent to prevent more people from getting educated and an attempt to keep the population dumb and placid.
You cannot have "free college" unless you alter primary education. Which means instituting a tracking system, much like they do in Europe. Which won't happen in the US because everyone's child is "special" and should be free to chase their dreams, even if their 6yr old is on the floor licking light sockets. The saying "the world needs ditch diggers too" would be considered offensive today. I would argue that anyone going to Stanford to major in English Lit or underwater basket weaving and believe $150,000 is a wise investment in that deserves to be in debt up to their eyeballs. We simply cannot tell everyone the US government is open for business to subsidize their dream of majoring in water color painting. There needs to be a return on that investment if the government is flipping the bill and an individuals soul being nurtured isn't a good enough return.
 

benshive

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Feb 26, 2017
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If the government is just going to bail them out then why should they worry about borrowing insurmountable amounts?
It's crazy how this sentence can also be applied perfectly accurately to the Wall Street bailouts. While I think that this legislation does go too far, I absolutely see where Bernie is coming from. Regular low and middle income Americans spent trillions bailing out Wall Street and now students from that same group of taxpayers are saddled with $1.5 trillion in student loan debt while Wall Street continues to hoard an unprecedented amount of money. I personally don't think it's unreasonable to use some of that money to help tackle the issue.
 

LordVic

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Sep 7, 2011
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You cannot have "free college" unless you alter primary education. Which means instituting a tracking system, much like they do in Europe. Which won't happen in the US because everyone's child is "special" and should be free to chase their dreams, even if their 6yr old is on the floor licking light sockets. The saying "the world needs ditch diggers too" would be considered offensive today. I would argue that anyone going to Stanford to major in English Lit or underwater basket weaving and believe $150,000 is a wise investment in that deserves to be in debt up to their eyeballs. We simply cannot tell everyone the US government is open for business to subsidize their dream of majoring in water color painting. There needs to be a return on that investment if the government is flipping the bill and an individuals soul being nurtured isn't a good enough return.
I'm not advocating "free" college / university. I'm advocating reasonable limits on tuition to bring secondary education within affordable means to more people who should have access.

They still need to get loans or work for it. But when you are askign for 50,000 for tuition, you are putting a massive barrier in place to prevent the average people from affording school. It skews education, especially higher education towards well off families who can already afford it. And creates a sort of indentured servitude should those who can't outright afford it require loans (if they can even get those loans).

These schools are literally setting up a system in which if you want to be university educated, even to get an undergrad, you are going to be paying off loans for decades post graduation. Which puts a dent in starting families, saving for retirement, or purchasing a home.

Like, I get "profit!!!!" = "freedom!".. but at some point, for certain services, Profit shouldn't be the overriding factor. Education to me is one of those.
 

Chew Toy McCoy

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May 13, 2016
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This is stupid. Not fair to the people who diligently paid off their loans and presents a moral hazard problem for future borrowers. If the government is just going to bail them out then why should they worry about borrowing insurmountable amounts? Get rid of the federal student loan program period.
What’s your opinion on people who were put in prison on weed charges that are now perfectly legal?

I'm asking because I think there are a lot of "I did it so everybody else should have to do it too" opinion barriers to progress. I get it, but I'm just wondering what a reasonable solution would be for something going from for profit to public to these voices.
 

Huntn

macrumors demi-god
May 5, 2008
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Why pay $100K to get a $40K job?

I'm gonna try to steer my boy into a trade job, something in construction because they can't send a plumbing or HVAC job overseas.
The thing is before the age of greed, college tuition was a lot more affordable for average income families without the students expected to sink deeply in debt. It’s part of the symptom of the illness we are suffering Nationally. Early to mid 1970s, when I went to college, Syracuse University about $1500 a semester.

Putting the Rising Cost of College in Perspective
How much did college cost in the 70s?
That year, college costs surveyed by TIME included $2,015 for tuition, room and board, and fees for a year at Bates, and $1,450 for Lewis and Clark. (That's $16,400 and $11,800 today.) These days, the average costfor a year at a four-year college ranges from $9,410 for in-state public tuition to $32,410 for private.Aug 31, 2016

https://time.com/4472261/college-cost-history/
 

Huntn

macrumors demi-god
May 5, 2008
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see post 14............
That’s it, I’m your expertise?;)

Here is the problem, people don’t want to wait several generations for the issue to self correct. It’s been 50 years since I went to college and tuition keeps rising, que sera is not the answer.
 

BoxerGT2.5

macrumors 68000
Jun 4, 2008
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I'm not advocating "free" college / university. I'm advocating reasonable limits on tuition to bring secondary education within affordable means to more people who should have access.

They still need to get loans or work for it. But when you are askign for 50,000 for tuition, you are putting a massive barrier in place to prevent the average people from affording school. It skews education, especially higher education towards well off families who can already afford it. And creates a sort of indentured servitude should those who can't outright afford it require loans (if they can even get those loans).

These schools are literally setting up a system in which if you want to be university educated, even to get an undergrad, you are going to be paying off loans for decades post graduation. Which puts a dent in starting families, saving for retirement, or purchasing a home.

Like, I get "profit!!!!" = "freedom!".. but at some point, for certain services, Profit shouldn't be the overriding factor. Education to me is one of those.
Except that's not what they're talking about, Sanders wants $1.6 trillion to wipe the slate clean and to continue to wipe the slate clean for everyone, no questions asked.

Part of the reason why college tuition is skyrocketing is because the government is handing out subsidized and unsubsidized loans out the ying yang. As long as the government is handing kids money like they're handing out tic tacs, the Universities (many of them public) are going to keep seeking more of it. What puzzles me is why there isn't a single candidate who wants to go after the universities for gouging the crap out of kids the way they will Big Pharma or the insurance industry. Because the profit motive doesn't get questioned when those sharing similar ideologies are gaining from it. Instead they're gonna talk about handouts while they still fill the pockets of their own.
 
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appleisking

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May 24, 2013
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Why pay $100K to get a $40K job?

I'm gonna try to steer my boy into a trade job, something in construction because they can't send a plumbing or HVAC job overseas.
Can't automate it away either!
[doublepost=1561658673][/doublepost]
What’s your opinion on people who were put in prison on weed charges that are now perfectly legal?

I'm asking because I think there are a lot of "I did it so everybody else should have to do it too" opinion barriers to progress. I get it, but I'm just wondering what a reasonable solution would be for something going from for profit to public to these voices.
My opinion is it was a wrong committed by the state and they should be sued for it.
 
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LordVic

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Sep 7, 2011
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Except that's not what they're talking about, Sanders wants $1.6 trillion to wipe the slate clean and to continue to wipe the slate clean for everyone, no questions asked.

Part of the reason why college tuition is skyrocketing is because the government is handing out subsidized and unsubsidized loans out the ying yang. As long as the government is handing kids money like they're handing out tic tacs, the Universities (many of them public) are going to keep seeking more of it. What puzzles me is why there isn't a single candidate who wants to go after the universities for gouging the crap out of kids the way they will Big Pharma or the insurance industry. Because the profit motive doesn't get questioned when those sharing similar ideologies are gaining from it. Instead they're gonna talk about handouts while they still fill the pockets of their own.
What Tripe

you're blaming people for wanting to go to school for schools taking advantage of the loans by jacking up the prices.

Here's a hint. If you regulate the prices, those loans still will exist and help kids go to school. But without the constant inflation of education costs.

you're basically excusing rampant profiteering on people taking loans to get education. yet more foolishness blaming people for the corporate thuggery of the administration.

simply put. I'ts not the loans or people paying for education that's the problem. it's the administration taking advantage for profit sake.
 

velocityg4

macrumors 601
Dec 19, 2004
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You cannot have "free college" unless you alter primary education. Which means instituting a tracking system, much like they do in Europe. Which won't happen in the US because everyone's child is "special" and should be free to chase their dreams, even if their 6yr old is on the floor licking light sockets. The saying "the world needs ditch diggers too" would be considered offensive today. I would argue that anyone going to Stanford to major in English Lit or underwater basket weaving and believe $150,000 is a wise investment in that deserves to be in debt up to their eyeballs. We simply cannot tell everyone the US government is open for business to subsidize their dream of majoring in water color painting. There needs to be a return on that investment if the government is flipping the bill and an individuals soul being nurtured isn't a good enough return.
Funny thing is a kid who goes on to a skilled trade and treats it as a serious job. Working towards journeyman and master status. Can make an income more substantial than the average college graduate. Not everyone graduates as a doctor, engineer or lawyer.
 

jb1280

macrumors 6502a
Jan 13, 2009
813
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This whole idea of forgiving student loans is the most ridiculous and immoral public policy proposal I’ve seen in a long time.

Suckers are those who went to schools they could afford instead of those they really wanted to, or those who paid off their loans, or those who opted out of higher ed because the couldn’t afford it.

The government needs to get out of backing student loans.

Financial institutions should have a normal underwriting policy for student loans that considers metrics such as student performance to date, earning potential of course of study, graduation rates and hire rates of institution, etc.

Those who take out loans should be able to discharge them in a bankruptcy proceeding.

Let these market forces create an environment where higher ed institutions need to drive down their costs.

For those who currently hold loans, several options - make them interest free, let them declare bankruptcy, incentivize business to pay off parts of loans as part of compensation model, expand programs for public work in exchange of loan forgiveness.

Under no circumstances should taxpayers bail out people who owe student loans or higher ed institutions.

Edit: for those who are into social programs, there have to be way better uses of this kind of money than a handout to the Bernie bros
 
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LordVic

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Funny thing is a kid who goes on to a skilled trade and treats it as a serious job. Working towards journeyman and master status. Can make an income more substantial than the average college graduate. Not everyone graduates as a doctor, engineer or lawyer.
There's way too much attention on university only as education and not enough on skilled trades or other post secondary education.

But not really the point of the conversation here.
The point is that the modern university (For Profit) system unfairly burdens students with astronomically unballanced student debt that has long term repercussions on their ability to be proper economic actors.

170+ BILLION in outstanding student loan debt.

and many people here have the mindset that only the rich should be able to be educated past highischool.

it's disgusting because it either intentionally ignores, or is accidentally ignorant to the socio-economic issues surrounding communities and their social mobility.

"we want people of lesser status to have the opportunities to pull up their bootstraps!" while at the same time putting ridiculous barriers of money in the way.


Bernie is wrong in wiping all the debt. The Debt is a symptom of the problem. The problem is, schools are trying their best to put tuition costs out of reach of as many people as they can so that they can keep themselves exclusive to specific communities.

And if you have the gall to try and reach above your social standing by taking a loan for school? You best understand you will encounter 20+ years of paying that off so that you can't then afford to move up that social ladder since you'll be paying that debt for decades.

fix the problem by fixing the for profit post secondary education system.
 

appleisking

macrumors 6502a
May 24, 2013
658
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There's way too much attention on university only as education and not enough on skilled trades or other post secondary education.

But not really the point of the conversation here.
The point is that the modern university (For Profit) system unfairly burdens students with astronomically unballanced student debt that has long term repercussions on their ability to be proper economic actors.

170+ BILLION in outstanding student loan debt.

and many people here have the mindset that only the rich should be able to be educated past highischool.

it's disgusting because it either intentionally ignores, or is accidentally ignorant to the socio-economic issues surrounding communities and their social mobility.

"we want people of lesser status to have the opportunities to pull up their bootstraps!" while at the same time putting ridiculous barriers of money in the way.


Bernie is wrong in wiping all the debt. The Debt is a symptom of the problem. The problem is, schools are trying their best to put tuition costs out of reach of as many people as they can so that they can keep themselves exclusive to specific communities.

And if you have the gall to try and reach above your social standing by taking a loan for school? You best understand you will encounter 20+ years of paying that off so that you can't then afford to move up that social ladder since you'll be paying that debt for decades.

fix the problem by fixing the for profit post secondary education system.
Community colleges, public colleges, scholarships (plenty of scholarships for minority and disadvantaged communities). Cut off the free money debt train and you’ll see those tuition prices go down real fast as people will go to cheaper schools. The problem IS the loan program. As far as regulators g tuition costs, if they’re private schools we really have no right to tell them how much they can charge. Here’s what we do: get rid of all federal funding for these schools and take away their tax exempt status. Problem solved. No need to spend years trying to write legislation and getting it passed.
 
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