Bernie Sanders' petition against tax cuts for the rich

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by IntelliUser, Jun 27, 2011.

  1. IntelliUser macrumors 6502

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    #1
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4axvr3n-ABU


    Sign the petition here:

    http://sanders.senate.gov/petition/?uid=c1fd7f9b-abd8-4e7a-a370-1867881259d8
     
  2. citizenzen macrumors 65816

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    #2
    Love me some Bernie Sanders.

    Thanks for the link.

    I signed.
     
  3. NT1440 macrumors G4

    NT1440

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    #3
    I signed.

    Watching him filibuster made me extremely proud, someone actually cares about the people in this country and holds the office. :)
     
  4. Dont Hurt Me macrumors 603

    Dont Hurt Me

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    #4
    I did too, Bernie hits the nail on the head. Please read this letter folks.
     
  5. kavika411 macrumors 6502a

    kavika411

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    #5
    I could not agree more. I'm glad Sanders is shining a light on the fact that nearly half of US households pay no federal income tax - that it's only the top 53% who pay federal income taxes. It's about time someone asks the president to reduce the deficit by a "shared sacrifice."
     
  6. NT1440 macrumors G4

    NT1440

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    #6
    Yea, I liked this little gem in there:

    "In recent years, credits for low- and middle-income families have grown so much that a family of four making as much as $50,000 will owe no federal income tax for 2009, as long as there are two children younger than 17, according to a separate analysis by the consulting firm Deloitte Tax"

    Damn those family of four with all that money!

    Meanwhile, millionaires and billionaires are going to be oh so hurt if their tax rates return to where EVERYONE agreed they would at the time of the cut.

    Should we also post a link showing the absurd amount of massive companies that don't pay taxes in this country? I think you'll find that has way more to do with the problem then the lowlife tax skipping family rolling in money mentioned in the quote. :rolleyes:
     
  7. IntelliUser thread starter macrumors 6502

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    #7
    If Democrats agreed to change that, do you think Republicans would agree to make the top 400 richest people in America pay a little more than the 16% they pay now, and perhaps lift the Social Security cap?
     
  8. kavika411 macrumors 6502a

    kavika411

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    #8
    I guess I'm confused, NT1440. You quoted my post, but you gave no actual opinion on 47% of the population not paying any federal income taxes.

    I know you don't like to come down on a specific side, but do you think it is good or do you think it is bad that only 53% of the population pays federal income tax?

    Of course, feel free to dodge that specific question in favor of conflating but-it's-not-fair-that-so-and-so-happens-over-there-and-we-should-eat-the-rich-and-blah-blah-blah.
     
  9. NT1440 macrumors G4

    NT1440

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    #9
    Oh I'm sorry your majesty, I didn't realize I was required to infer that you were asking for a comment on that one particular part of the piece (which cites the Heritage foundation :roll eyes:). Let me get right on that for you.

    I think that people making less than a livable wage should have less of a tax burden (and if it really is that low in income, no tax). I think that the write-offs have to stop because it just allows for those with some extra time and know how to completely get out of the system.

    Yes I am an evil person who thinks that the poor should have to pay less of the burden while the rich should and can chip in a little more. After all, who has gained more from societal benefits and who uses vastly more resources in doing so?
     
  10. kavika411 macrumors 6502a

    kavika411

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    #10
    I didn't realize it was linear and/or tit-for-tat. To answer your question, I have no ****ing idea.

    If Republicans agreed to change that, do you think Democrats would agree to make all income earners pay at least a few cents of federal income taxes?
     
  11. kavika411 macrumors 6502a

    kavika411

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    #11
    Such drama, but congratulations - that's the most closest I've seen you get in a answering a specific question. (I was relieved, of course, that your answer was not without at least one signature rhetorical question.)

    So, I dare you to take one more step, NT1440. What percent of income earners do you think should pay at least a few pennies in federal income tax?
     
  12. NT1440 macrumors G4

    NT1440

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    #12
    Is there some reason that you think the poor aren't poor enough? Why is it that the lowest of the low should have to use money that they can't afford to throw around on taxes verses food?

    I have no problem with the middle class paying a percent or two more, that's shared sacrifice, but you specifically said "all income earners". What about the disturbing trend of the bottom falling out from beneath the middle class because there is no mandated livable wage.

    Now, back to who seems to live in a tit-for-tat world......

    Also, if you're going to complain about my posting style, perhaps you should just get over it? =]

    "So, I dare you to take one more step, NT1440. What percent of income earners do you think should pay at least a few pennies in federal income tax?"

    I don't have an answer for that, because its not about the percent of income earners (what a downright stupid way to look at the system). I'm fine with taxing anyone that makes at least 15% over the cost of living (which needs a drastic overhaul in how its calculated for this method to work). If this country had a livable wage system, I'd be fine taxing everyone, but we don't have that. We have a system in which you have the poorest of the poor working two or even three (part-time) jobs just to make ends meet. Minimum wage is a sick joke in the richest nation on earth.
     
  13. kavika411 macrumors 6502a

    kavika411

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    #13
    Ladies and Gentlemen, we have a winner! The award for the best rhetorical question goes - once again - to NT1440.

    [crowd goes wild]

    Here it is, in all its useless glory:

    [crowd goes even wilder]

    And because it's that day of the week, he even went with a Two For Tuesday with this follow up:

    [crowd gets on its feet]

    Come back one day when you want to have a calm, productive conversation.
     
  14. NT1440 macrumors G4

    NT1440

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    #14
    You said tax everyone. Those would be the consequences of doing just that. Or are you just going to pretend those people don't exist in quantity in this country? There is nothing rhetorical of what I said, it was taking your idea and applying it to reality. We have many people in this country making so little that the extra tax burden would brake them, why do you think the exemptions are there in the first place? This is a recognized reality, but keep clamoring on about how I'm Mr. Rhetorical. Aren't you the one complaining the most about substance around here.

    I've noticed you seem to have a problem doing anything other than commenting on my posting style. Have fun.
     
  15. imahawki macrumors 6502a

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    #15
    This is why a federal sales tax, dropping all income tax would be great. It would automatically account for this. Exempt food and non-luxury clothing (hey, figuring this out would STILL be way simpler than our current tax code). Everything else would take care of itself. If you can afford a cell phone, you can afford sales tax on a cell phone. If you primarily buy food and clothing, you are going to pay almost no taxes.
     
  16. kavika411 macrumors 6502a

    kavika411

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    #16
    I've used the term "pennies" twice, but your haste to hit "Submit Reply" kept you from noticing.

    Absolutely. Fantastic consequences. The national debt would go down. Everyone would feel they were working on this with everyone else.

    I honestly don't even think you can turn your rhetorical question part of your brain off.

    When you ask a rhetorical question, you are saying nothing.

    I must have missed the application. Again. Everyone pays, at least pennies. Tell me about [Marlon Brando voice] the horror, the horror.

    [Yawns. Waits for NT1440 to read pennies comments.]

    Because Democrats needed to promise something to get elected. Why do you think the exemptions are there in the first place?

    Didn't mean to hurt your feelings.

    I don't think that word is very apropos.
     
  17. IntelliUser thread starter macrumors 6502

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    #17
    Would that be enough to fund the government? Because all major developed countries have an income tax, most both an income AND sales tax.
     
  18. mcrain, Jun 28, 2011
    Last edited: Jun 28, 2011

    mcrain macrumors 68000

    mcrain

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    #18
    Pennies? Do the thousands spent on SS and Medicare and Medicaid and State income taxes, sales taxes, property taxes, excise taxes, lottery, and the myriad of other taxes count as pennies?

    (edit) Oh, and don't forget that the people who "pay" no federal income taxes have an effective zero rate, which is not to say they didn't pay anything, but that at the end of the year, they get a refund. The US Government gets the time value of their money (which adds up).
     
  19. NT1440 macrumors G4

    NT1440

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    #19
    What happened to back and forth? I thought you wanted a discussion here. Why tax the poorest of the poor? Even if it is "pennies" what is to be gained from taking that from the poor?

    I noticed how you think I'm saying nothing, but completely ignored this:

    "I don't have an answer for that, because its not about the percent of income earners (what a downright stupid way to look at the system). I'm fine with taxing anyone that makes at least 15% over the cost of living (which needs a drastic overhaul in how its calculated for this method to work). If this country had a livable wage system, I'd be fine taxing everyone, but we don't have that. We have a system in which you have the poorest of the poor working two or even three (part-time) jobs just to make ends meet. Minimum wage is a sick joke in the richest nation on earth."

    But hey, keep complaining about my rhetorics while the rest of us try to have a discussion. Ahmed, I fully agree that it's downright sad that nearly half of the population of this amazingly rich and powerful country make so little that they can't be taxed. How's that for wealth disparity for you?
     
  20. kavika411 macrumors 6502a

    kavika411

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    #20
    He speaks!

    Glad you're back.
     
  21. Mousse macrumors 68000

    Mousse

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    #21
    It's a dirty little secret called Campaign Contribution (and lobbying). They fund the people we supposed vote into office. That's the illusion of the two party system, the illusion that the people have a choice.:mad: Six of one, half a dozen of the other.:rolleyes:

    Get a bright eyed new kid into office and he'll end up another government drone; even if he's President. Where's the hope? Where's the change?
     
  22. mcrain macrumors 68000

    mcrain

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    #22
    Yeah, well, I kind of got in trouble and was in time out. Glad to be back, and to anyone who thinks its funny to post a thread on the same subject as one that was just closed... it's not funny. Trust me.
     
  23. NT1440 macrumors G4

    NT1440

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    #23
    Institutions are inherently self insulating. We need the middle class to start paying attention (rather than working themselves to death for less money than 10 years ago), mobilize, and make this country great again. We've delegated democracy into a once every four years PR stunt, with the outcome in terms of overall ideology essentially the same.
     
  24. citizenzen macrumors 65816

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    #24
    The bottom 50% have no net wealth. (Sorry, I'm at work and can't source it ... but I have numerous times in the past.)

    Increasing taxes on people who have no net wealth would therefore put them in a negative net state.

    Does that sound like a good idea?

    I think not.
     
  25. CorvusCamenarum macrumors 65816

    CorvusCamenarum

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    #25
    Given the overwhelming support Obama enjoys from the super-rich, Wall Street, et al, I'm all for raising taxes on them. Let them reap what they sow.

    Out of curiosity, to everyone who thinks we must "share the sacrifice" and all that, just how much extra do you plan on contributing this year?
     

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