Bernie's foreign policy deficit

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by jnpy!$4g3cwk, Jan 30, 2016.

  1. jnpy!$4g3cwk macrumors 65816

    jnpy!$4g3cwk

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2010
    #1
    In all seriousness, I'm trying to see Bernie Sanders as a viable president. Would I trust him more than Trump or Cruz? By far. But, we all live in a dangerous world. As much as I would like a President who has vowed to try to protect consumers and small business from rapacious investment banks and Wall Street brokerage firms (is there a difference today?), Bernie just doesn't seem to be stepping up to the Foreign Policy plate:

    http://www.politico.com/story/2016/01/bernie-sanders-foreign-policy-deficit-218431
     
  2. jkcerda Suspended

    jkcerda

    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2013
    Location:
    Criminal Mexi Midget
  3. shinji macrumors 65816

    shinji

    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2007
    #3
    Bernie had enough insight on foreign policy to oppose the Iraq War. Clinton voted for it.

    And while we're on the subject of national security, Bernie also voted against the Patriot Act, unlike Clinton who continues to support it.
     
  4. zioxide macrumors 603

    zioxide

    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2006
    #4
    Bernie's right on when it comes to foreign policy. We need to stop being warmongering world police. It's done nothing but **** us over the last 60 years. The American people should have listened to Eisenhower about the military industrial complex.

    Use our military for the defense of Americans and our allies, but stop trying to police the world or pretend that we can somehow stop conflicts in the middle east that have existed for 1000% longer than the US has even existed as a country.
     
  5. Robisan macrumors 6502

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2014
  6. chown33 macrumors 604

    Joined:
    Aug 9, 2009
    #6
    It is, and that's due to economic constraints. The lack of significant research results is partly because it hasn't been studied for long enough or closely enough, but also because the price of dairy products continues to oscillate. How can people concentrate without ice cream incentives? Honestly, it's like nobody realizes that these precious lactose-bearing fluids (PLBF) are instrumental in a sound economy and effective delivery of health care. What the hell, has everyone forgotten their childhoods? What happened to summer vacations and playing Kick The Can? I swear, you young whippersnappers are completely missing the boat.
     
  7. stroked Suspended

    stroked

    Joined:
    May 3, 2010
    #8
    Alzheimer's is a bitch
     
  8. aaronvan Suspended

    aaronvan

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2011
    Location:
    República Cascadia
    #9
    Hillary Clinton voted for the Iraq War and the Patriot Act. Her and her co-president husband dismantled structural systems that FDR established to prevent a repeat of the Great Depression, passed laws against gay marriage, and destroyed the social safety net with welfare reform. Then they pardoned anti-American arch-villain Marc Rich.

    She is evil and untrustworthy.
     
  9. Renzatic Suspended

    Renzatic

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2011
    Location:
    Gramps, what the hell am I paying you for?
    #10
    ...Bobby?
     
  10. bent christian, Feb 1, 2016
    Last edited: Feb 1, 2016

    bent christian Suspended

    bent christian

    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2015
    #11
    Unsurprisingly, no one here (the author included), understands the friendly connection between the American War Machine and business/Wall Street (Sanders does). And people wonder why we keep repeating our past mistakes.

    Let's trust the experts who have been incorrect about pretty much everything regarding Middle East strategy over the last fifteen years. What could possibly go wrong?
     
  11. jnpy!$4g3cwk, Feb 1, 2016
    Last edited: Feb 1, 2016

    jnpy!$4g3cwk thread starter macrumors 65816

    jnpy!$4g3cwk

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2010
    #12
    Well, count me in as people who don't understand it. For every business that benefits from defense spending, there are 9 businesses which would benefit from lower taxes and greater consumer spending. "Wall Street", selfish and short-sighted though it is, understands that defense spending is an overall drag on the economy. This is not to say that there are not plenty of people out there with a personal interest in defense spending.

    One problem with neocons is that they generally assume that people act rationally. That is, in their own personal/family self-interest. I learned a lesson on this subject some decades ago in a country not too far away (from the near M.E.) when I was lectured by both sides to a conflict about grievances that were almost 1000 years old. Early Crusades era. (No kidding.)

    “The past is never dead. It's not even past.”
     
  12. thermodynamic Suspended

    thermodynamic

    Joined:
    May 3, 2009
    Location:
    USA
    #13
    True. Ronald Reagan had it before he became president since his own VP denounced his economic plan as "voodoo economics" in 1981, and was so addled by the time he took the stand that all his "I don't remember"'s, "I don't know"'s, and so on led to impeachment for incompetence-- oh, wait...

    Try harder next time when playing the "fun for the whole family" game known as "partisan pattycake".
    --- Post Merged, Feb 1, 2016 ---
    That sounds familiar... lots of parrots flying around in the shop today?
     
  13. bent christian Suspended

    bent christian

    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2015
    #14
    Dig deeper.
     
  14. thermodynamic Suspended

    thermodynamic

    Joined:
    May 3, 2009
    Location:
    USA
    #15
    True, but this is one area where Clinton has a distinctive advantage, and it's a biggie - foreign policy. Can we leave? At all? Or do we need to stay? And to what extent? I'm not sure leaving is a bright idea. If we did, a plan with contingencies needs to be set and over the course of YEARS and not overnight - if stability is valued. Peoples' lives are involved, remember. And, true, going in to stop a civil war is pretty big stuff. Getting the people to listen and to do the work needed to make peace is one thing, the people doing it also takes work but the person cannot have one without the other preceding, those doing the warring aren't going to take a step back to think. In all probability, but emotion can be overwhelming and that's when the problems start to get made.

    Also, I don't see her as a "hawk" when it comes to military action or response. Sanders, I'm not so sure about. He is right on a number of comments, but I'd say the same for Trump. And how much do we know about Trump vs Sanders regarding the world stage, since foreign policy is indeed as relevant and important issue as any domestic issue.

    Now if Sanders brought in Clinton or vice-versa, that'd be an easy ticket to vote on. Both would provide ideas, keep each other in check, and hopefully find compromises that help Americans too.
     
  15. bent christian Suspended

    bent christian

    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2015
    #16
    Clinton wants to continue the same failing strategy that has made things more virulent, more violent with each passing year in the Middle East. I don't consider that a strength. You might be correct, it could be an advantage overall, but that just speaks to the distance and to the ignorance most people have about the war(s) and about why so many people in desperate circumstances turn to violent extremism. Her "solution" completely ignores the root causes.
     
  16. thewap, Feb 1, 2016
    Last edited: Feb 1, 2016

    thewap macrumors demi-god

    thewap

    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2012
    #17
    I have been roaming around listening to what Bernie says to get a picture of his policies.

    While Bernie's anti-war stance might reflect Rand Paul's stance, there is little information on his strategy to end *the war* or how to strengthen national defense. A strong country is only strong as it's economy IMO.

    He exploits well the anger Americans have against the government catering to special interest (special interests a bi-partisan ambition) his vision of *social democrat* - free college and schools, free health care, nationalized banks, nationalized utilities,and tax the billionaires up to 90%, while imposing a minimum wage where *all Americans can live within decent means (what is decent means according to a socialist?) would indeed bring Americans closer to being equal as in equally poor and bankrupt IMO. A bankrupt America is not *good foreign policy*.

    If such policies became true in America, the *rich* will leave the country as they did in France, the corporations would leave to operate offshore (Ireland perhaps?) which would skyrocket unemployment, the fed reserve and all banks would bail out of the US (and the money printers) offshore, investments would drop dramatically on wall street with his wall street tax, and small business would fire and not hire as they would not be able to afford to employ.

    Of course the lower and middle class taxes would be raised to levels not ever seen before in the history of our country, and our budget for *national defense* would look like N. Korea's. But of course by then our constitution would be destroyed, as to which I would ask, under what rule of law would the *Americas* operate under?.

    The real solution is to address the govt (both democrats and republicans) lawlessness in their endeavor for perpetual war, their creation of *Isis*, account for the 8 to 12 trillions of dollars that the dept. of defense cannot account for which constitutes the majority of our deficit, and to hold accountable all illegal actions by govt officials, THEN make a clear concise national defense plan that does not infringe on the bill of rights of all Americans.
     
  17. bent christian Suspended

    bent christian

    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2015
    #19
    You looked around so carefully, so intelligently, that you got pretty much everything here wrong. Sanders has not said he will nationalize anything or tax anyone at 90%.
     
  18. thewap macrumors demi-god

    thewap

    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2012
    #20
    In an interview with CNBC’s John Harwood, Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-VT), who is running for the Democratic presidential candidacy, said he could back a 90 percent top marginal tax rate.

    http://www.reviewjournal.com/opinion/editorial-bernie-sanders-honesty-refreshing-albeit-crazy

    He would like to see banks broken up and the federal government take over the oil and gas industries. He doesn’t think Obamacare goes far enough, and he supports instituting a single-payer health care system instead. He backs roughly doubling the size of federal infrastructure investment to a whopping $1 trillion over a five-year period. He would like to see Social Security benefits expanded, and he thinks taxes should be raised in order to make it happen. He also has called for a $15-an-hour minimum wage and would welcome a top tax rate of (yes) 90 percent.
     
  19. bent christian Suspended

    bent christian

    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2015
    #21
    Ha, ha. You took a good and honest look. I can see that.

    Maybe try some sources that aren't almost eight months old, and that aren't part of the business and libertarian propaganda machines.
     
  20. thewap, Feb 1, 2016
    Last edited: Feb 1, 2016

    thewap macrumors demi-god

    thewap

    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2012
    #22
    The propaganda machine is Obama, Hillary for the banks and the industrial war complex, while Sanders is all union.
    It is good to look at politicians history on the issues don't you think? (if 8 months ago is all that long ago to you)

    While Sanders would have everyone believe * capitalism is evil*, it is actually corruption that is evil just as a corrupt socialist government also could be. The lies that is the democratic machine in collusion with the republican machine would have you believe that *we want to be just like Sweden*, last I saw, Sweden is not in the business of perpetual war, drone killing, creating ISIS, and world policing while using it as an excuse to illegally surveil it's citizens.

    But hey, I get it, Mr. Paul who preaches peace, accountability, equal justice for minorities, and who actually fights for the bill of rights and the constitution is...a propaganda machine to liberals ? lol.
     
  21. zioxide macrumors 603

    zioxide

    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2006
    #23
    I'd just like to point out that a 90% marginal tax rate does not mean the government is taking 90% of your earnings.
     
  22. thewap macrumors demi-god

    thewap

    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2012
    #24
    I understand that, good luck on keeping the top tier money in America with Bernie's marginal tax rate of 90%,
    and a plan to *restructure* Ametrica in his *revolution* that would cost probably equal or more than the US deficit.
     

Share This Page