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Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by Herdfan, Dec 24, 2016.
Another candidate that could have given Trump a run for his money. Minus his near life-time in the Senate, Uncle Joe seemingly could actually connect with the working and lower class voters.
I thought Sanders was doing well with young voters we said he would payoff kids student loans if elected!
Hillary ran a terrible campaign. She thought it was enough to point out trump's faults and overlooked that she needed to sell people on her vision and policies. I kept waiting for her to pivot away from merely attacking him, but she never did.
This is at least how the media portrayed her. It's entirely possible that the only sound bites that made it to the news were the slams against trump instead of the plans to make life better for the people. But if that were the case, her campaign should have been paying attention to how their message was being portrayed. So the blame rests squarely on her shoulders and how she chose to run against trump.
I will disagree with Biden on one thing. Trump did appeal to the worst side of people's nature. His supporters aren't all bigots, but he encouraged bigotry. They weren't all xenophobes, but he encouraged xenophobia. He drew out people's anger and distrust and used it to galvanize his electorate.
Biden is talking about running in 2020, so he has to find a way to bring some of those people back to his side. He doesn't have the luxury of speaking openly and honestly about the kind of movement trump helped create. But for those of us who watched from the sidelines, it was a dark and revealing glimpse into the psyche of many Americans, and we don't know whether those people will get pushed further into a state of anger and loathing, or whether they can once again find their kinder and gentler selves.
Joe hopes to bring them back into the fold. I hope he's right.
Biden with Bernie as vice would have been a good match on dem side. They will both be too old next time around though
I thought from the beginning that if Biden got in he would have won. Hillary went the complete opposite of trump on everything, neither one was in the middle. Many folks completely ignored the identity politics and asked:
Do we have a country or not?
Do we have borders or not?
Do we support our cops or not?
Do we stand for our national anthem or not?
Do we let political correctness drown us or fight back against it?
Both Bernie or Biden could have fallen in the middle on at least a few of those questions and swayed some more voters.
for sure. he's a guy I'd like to go have a beer with. don't agree with all his views and policies but he comes across as more of the peoples guy. Hil liar y is most certainly NOT someone on his level.
Bernie is a dufus with socialistic dreamer BS in his head that I would never accept in the US. He's flawed and needs to just retire already.
The challenge for Biden next time will be his age and perhaps how he's holding up. Seems tough and healthy though but as we age things can turn quickly. The dems overall are up against the wall IMO because they have set the bar for Trump so low that if he even makes a dent in things he will be seen as a success.
I am not trying to sound like a conspiracy nut, but I think Hillary's health wasn't as good as she and her campaign was stating. Not that it was a big factor in the last election, but it wouldn't surprise me to see Hillary in the news in years to come about health issues. I probably would had voted for Joe Biden had he entered 2016 election, not that I necessary agree with him on the issues. It's just that he seems like he would have had the nation's interest in mind when making decisions.
I think Hilary's age and Bernies agd were an issue for me. And Biden is older. At 77 in 2020 he's really too hold
Do we have a country or not? Of course we do.
Do we have borders or not? Of course we do.
Do we support our cops or not? Yes. But they have to be held to account when they totally eff up.
Do we stand for our national anthem or not? Silliness. Who cares? Not me.
Do we let political correctness drown us or fight back against it? You feeling drowned? Feel free to fight back all you want.
I think you misunderstand my post. These are questions I asked before casting my vote.
Hillary was for open borders. Which means we have no borders and no country. A vote for her was a vote against our cops because she supported black lives matter, which is anti police. Our veterans care about standing for the anthem, we should too. Of course we're drowned in PC bull. Again, Hillary would have perpetuated this, Trump will not.
If you want to make America great again you're going to have to make minorities happier with the police.
And not standing for the anthem is something veterans are against 57-43. So a fairly large majority. But not an overwhelming one - http://www.marist.edu/publicaffairs/hboanthempoll2016.html. That said that sounds like a PC issue.
HRC campaigned on a pathway to citizenship, not open borders. She said she'd concentrate deportation efforts on those with violent criminal histories, which is similar to the walk back position trump took after he won the election.
Black Lives Matter has helped to bring attention to a number of incidents of police misconduct. Holding police accountable for misconduct is not the same as being "anti-police." Police have an incredibly difficult duty to perform, but that doesn't give them a free pass to kill people or abuse their authority.
Veterans should be commended for their service to the nation. And they are welcome to hold a personal opinion about standing for the anthem. But it's just their opinion. I feel no obligation to live my life according their values. In America, each person is free to live according to their own values, not those of some group you'd like to elevate above the rest.
As for trump and PC, I'm curious what you consider PC bull and why you feel like you're drowning in it. It sounds to me as if you're just giving in to hyperbole and playing the victim card. But perhaps a concrete example could illustrate the great strain you're suffering under.
Trump was a very flawed character. I am surprised he won. While he did saw some awful things that appealed to some people, I think many people weighed it against Clinton's own baggage. And I think people were tired of the status quo career politicians. Whether Trump is the answer to those concerns will yet to be seen, only time will tell. I certainly remain skeptical.
Clinton was also an extremely flawed candidate and probably should not have been pushed to the top as she was. I think are probably many people who could have beat out Trump. Clinton's campaign to me sounds like a story of hubris, not trying as hard as she could have in the right places and making the false assumption she was a shoe in.
Bernie Sanders I don't think would have had a chance at all in the general election. He was too polarized left I think for mainstream independents and while I believe probably the most sincere candidate this past election, he came off as very one dimensional to me. He had one or two plans for the country and zero explanation of how to get there. I doubt a self declared (democratic) socialist could be elected even in 2016.
Biden seems like a really nice, respectful, down to earth guy with a magnetizing personality. I like the guy, but he's not quite on par with my politics (but no one really is). He does give off the impression of not being particularly intelligent with his numerous gaffes, but I'm sure he's much smarter than the sound bites suggest. I would have to assume he could have beat Trump.
She may have campaigned on that but in a private paid speech she said her dream was a hemispheric common market with open trade and open borders.
Black lives matter is a racist group that likes to start riots. Plain and simple. All started with Ferguson where Brown was far from an innocent kid. Not saying all that has happened is justified but BLM in general is bad news and I would not vote for a candidate who supported it.
Standing for the anthem. You are exactly right, but I choose my vote my way and you can do the same.
Political correctness. Again, I never said this affected me personally. But seriously, pronouns are being banned in schools, the list of things you can't say keeps getting longer.
She gave a speech supporting open borders. Then again she also mentioned having a real policy position and what you tell the voters.
It wasn't a campaign speech. It was a talk given to Brazilian bankers (IIRC) in which she expressed a vision of the future of open borders and countries powered by green energy. It was an aspirational projection of a more idyllic future, not a statement of policy she'd pursue as president.
By your logic, you'd also assume that as president she'd ban fossil fuels.
She wasn't going to pursue policies that would lead to what she considers an idyllic future?
You have to consider the difference between long term and short term goals AND the political reality that allows those goals to be achieved. With a Republican dominated House and Senate, there'd be little that HRC could do in that regard. While she may have aspired to some future goal, she'd also need the pathway to achieve it. Without a pathway, there is compromise or defeat.
Very true. But she could have continued Obama's policy of no border enforcement and low deportations. At some point there is going to be a process for legal residency for the 10-15M illegals in the country. She wants their votes, so she would have let as many in as she could knowing in the future they would become voters.
Why would those be the questions that matter? Nothing about the economy, foreign policy, healthcare, social security, taxes, etc.?
Welp. It turns out. I get to decide what matters for my vote.
Oh, and I'm not sure you'd want to lean on Hillary for foreign policy, or the economy.
Joe has my vote!
Hilary will be more of the same on foreign policy so better than Trump and more of the same on the economy, so the same as Trump - albeit Hilary would also raise the minimum wage.
And without someone who wants to walk the path there is?