Big Government Caused This Economic Disaster

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by fivepoint, Sep 17, 2008.

  1. fivepoint macrumors 65816

    fivepoint

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    #1
    http://ibdeditorial.com/IBDArticles.aspx?id=306370789279709

    The problem here is that sub-prime mortgages aimed at low-income buyers are not a good idea. It's bad math, and another prime example of big government getting its nose into things it shouldn't.

    I implore everyone... whichever political party you've supported in the past, to at least research the damage large government causes. The founding fathers would be ashamed at what we have become... essentially a nanny-state where personal responsibility has gone by the way-side and people look to the government for answers.

    The original intent of the U.S. Government was to provide for the safety and infrastructure to help the American people. Not to control our lives, define morality, serve as a welfare state, and over-manipulate the free market. The economic downturn we are experiencing now is directly related to the government overstepping it's bounds and citizens who are evermore reliant on the government to make their choices for them.



    For those who are interested... here are Ron Paul's thoughts on the subject:


    Also, for a more in-depth Analysis: Did the Fed Cause the Housing Bubble and Bust?
     
  2. gauchogolfer macrumors 603

    gauchogolfer

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    #2
    Which of the two major party candidates will you vote for to reduce the size of government?
     
  3. leekohler macrumors G5

    leekohler

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    #3
    Umm...what? Lending was deregulated to the point that lenders could lend to almost anyone. I fail to see how government letting the mortgage business do what it wants is the fault of "big government". It certainly isn't the result of over regulation. The whole article makes no sense, and might I remind you that it's an editorial piece?
     
  4. jplan2008 macrumors regular

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    #4
    We're supposed to do "research" by looking at an editorial of a business group? I will agree that in this case what happened in 1999 under Clinton contributed to the problem, but what they did was DEregulate, not regulate more. One result was we had the situation where entities could deal with multiple financial products, where previously they couldn't. And as Obama has been saying for many months, the company then falls under a regulatory agency based on the title of what they are, rather than what they do (in this case giving mortgages).

    Lenders went from redlining, which the Community Reinvestment Act was supposed to address to predatory lending. No regulator in sight to curb greedy big business. But a business group isn't going to say it was their greed that caused the problem.

    http://www.responsiblelending.org/issues/mortgage/sevensigns.html
     
  5. iShater macrumors 604

    iShater

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    #5
    Puh-leeze! Government caused this by NOT interfering. Have you been reading enough on how this mess started?
     
  6. madfresh macrumors regular

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    #6

    Well, there is some merit to the argument. The S&L bailout may have caused institutions to act carelessly, thinking government would bail them out.
     
  7. leekohler macrumors G5

    leekohler

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    #7
    And under whose leadership did that happen? ;)
     
  8. Ntombi macrumors 68030

    Ntombi

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    #8
    Word.

    I suggest you look at the legislation Phil "the nation is in a mental recession" Gramm and his cronies passed in 1999, which repealed most of the government regulations over the banking and financial industry that had been put in place after the Depression. That led to the crisis we're in now, which is the worse financial crisis since the Depression. What a coincidence, huh?

    Here's another big coincidence: Phil Gramm is the main economics advisor to Senator John "the fundamentals of our economy are sound" McCain.

    Oh, and another: after he left the Senate, Gramm went on to become a registered lobbyist for the banking industry (which never wants more regulation), which was only different from his time in the Senate in that he was paid more. He has been doing the same thing for decades.
     
  9. Ugg macrumors 68000

    Ugg

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    #9
    It's amazing how the far right continues to grasp at straws.

    If you want to place some blame, perhaps you should start with the war profiteers from the American Revolution. Corporate welfare got its start then.

    Why don't you vote for the candidate who WILL deliver small government instead of the one who brays about the need for it but will only expand it.

    bushco has made it clear that the Republican party is all about encouraging corporate greed.
     
  10. Thomas Veil macrumors 68020

    Thomas Veil

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    #10
    I knew we'd get around to this subject. The right has to say something, so this is becoming the new talking point. Even Rush was doing it on his show today.
     
  11. GorillaPaws macrumors 6502a

    GorillaPaws

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    #11
    THANK YOU!!! The Obama campaign needs to be playing this up as MUCH as possible. Forget the "economy is fundamentally sound" line and hit the Phil Gramm connection as hard as possible.
     
  12. leekohler macrumors G5

    leekohler

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    #12
    And have made it quite clear that they will make sure they're safe from harm, no matter what they do. :mad:
     
  13. madfresh macrumors regular

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    #13
    The democratic congress. I'm not trying to insult democrats, I myself am an independent. I'm just stating the facts.
     
  14. leekohler macrumors G5

    leekohler

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    #14
    Excuse me, be fair. Who was President? And could he not have vetoed this bailout?
     
  15. Peace macrumors P6

    Peace

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    #15

    The cause of this downfall was directly due to laws passed a few years ago by the then Republican led congress.

    Please study harder.
     
  16. madfresh macrumors regular

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    #16

    You have a point there...
     
  17. MacNut macrumors Core

    MacNut

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    #17
    Deregulation never works, it just adds to the greed. In principal it is a good idea but the companies can't be trusted. Are any of these CEO's going to face charges for ****ing everything up.
     
  18. leekohler macrumors G5

    leekohler

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    #18
    Not to mention the fact that John McCain and Neil Bush were also directly involved. The Democrats involved (with the exception of John Glenn, who is now out of politics as well) all lost their political careers and Neil Bush was banned from banking. Meanwhile, McCain is still in politics and nominated for President. Anyone see a problem here?
     
  19. iShater macrumors 604

    iShater

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    #19
    None probably.

    I have been trying to catch up on Marketplace podcast for the past few months, and listening to how things unfolded is amazing. Like with Fannie and Freddie asked to take on LARGER mortgages :eek:

    CEOs of these companies took these risks, they should be getting zero for pay this year and should have to be accountable for making some of these crazy schemes.
     
  20. Ntombi macrumors 68030

    Ntombi

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    #20
    Not to mention that Henry Paulson and Ben Bernanke did this with no input from the Congress. If they had, maybe they would have insisted on at least a modicum of accountability from AIG, in exchange for the $85+billion bailout. :rolleyes: :mad:
     
  21. jplan2008 macrumors regular

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    #21
    There really isn't much of anyone on any side who isn't saying LACK of regulation caused this mess. Both candidates are saying it's lack of regulation that has caused the problem, because other than in editorials here and there saying anything else is indefensible. Both parties did their part to deregulate, but the Republicans, starting with Reagan, were the ones who have had deregulation as their battlecry, and have pushed it the most.

    So the question is, who can begin to get us out of this mess? Someone (Obama)who has talked about the real causes of the problems and proposed real solutions for many months, or someone (McCain) who less than a year ago was saying that Americans were actually better off than they were in 2001 when Bush took office, and who has said he doesn't understand the economy, and who still on Monday said the fundamentals of the economy are strong, and whose solution is to STUDY the problem and its causes (a COMMISSION?), when we already KNOW the problem and its causes? Someone who has the biggest culprit of the deregulators on his payroll? The same culprit who said we're in a 'mental recession?'

    McCain:
    http://www2.tbo.com/content/2008/sep/17/na-from-tampa-mccain-scolds-wall-street/news-nationworld/

    "We've seen self-interest, greed, irresponsibility and corruption undermine the hard work of the American worker. It's time to set things right and I promise to get the job done."
    McCain promised to overhaul and strengthen what he called "casual" regulation of the nation's financial markets.
    He didn't outline specifics, but in an appearance earlier Tuesday on ABC News' "Good Morning America," he said the nation needs "a 9/11 commission to find out what happened and what needs to be fixed."
    I
     
  22. leekohler macrumors G5

    leekohler

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    #22
    Oh but no- they'll walk away with their golden parachutes like they always do. Good job guys! :rolleyes:
     
  23. SMM macrumors 65816

    SMM

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    #23
    Lee, you and several others have nailed this, centered around the common theme, the problem was caused by DEregulation (less government), and inspired by greed, perpetuated by an insane assumption that housing values would continue to increase indefinitely (reminds me of the dot com debacle, where prices were based on future earnings potential, and ignoring value). This was a Phil Gramm special, McCain's top economic advisor. I should say former economic advisor, as Gramm handed the job to Fiorina, as he stepped down, after the flack over his 'Americans are whiners' comment.

    Corporations have had no greater friend in Congress than Gramm. When ones looks at the incredible chaos, and economic destruction this lone man has done to our country, he deserves a quick trial and hanging, or even summary execution. Yet, he is going to just walk away from his crimes, very wealthy, while the citizens of this country will pay dearly, for years uncounted. A very scary rumor is that he is McCain's choice for Treasury Secretary. He symbolizes the very worse, which government and the capitalistic system have to offer. He has one redeeming quality; one can save a great deal of research time, by seeing his position on something. If he supports it, go the opposite way. ;)
     
  24. leekohler macrumors G5

    leekohler

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    #24
    Well thanks- but I just get tired of hearing these BS "conservative", "big government" talking points. Anyone who's lived through the early seventies to now and paid attention should be able to see what the problem is. You let people run rampant with no rules and this is what you end up with. And yeah definitely, Clinton played a role. But I never saw him as anything other than Republican Lite anyway. He gave "conservatives" almost everything they ever wanted. The worst part is that "conservatives" will point at Clinton's deregulation (which they wanted) and not look at what has been done since Reagan took office. It's astounding to me.
     
  25. hulugu macrumors 68000

    hulugu

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    #25
    The article makes some simple inferences, but ultimately I think it's flawed. Although the Clinton administration does deserve some blame, especially for allowing the Gramm-Leach-Biley-Act, and for cronyism at the F&Ms, laying the blame for the entire mess at their feet ignores the rampant greed and foolishness that worked through the entire system.

    Starting with home-owners who were signing up for loans they had no hope of ever paying who depended on the rapid 25% increases in home-values in order to save them, no-money down loans, or loans made without income checks.
    Of course, home-loan companies, like Countrywide and dozens of others, were signing people to these loans using questionable or even outright illegal tactics including abusing the appraisal process and signing people for 110% to value loans.
    Above this were larger companies who packaged the loans and resold them but hid the state of many of these loans. In some cases, the very worst sub-prime loans were packaged with regular loans making it hard for anyone to disentangle what was actually happening.
     

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