Big Oil Threatens Its Customers

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by Huntn, May 15, 2011.

  1. Huntn macrumors G5

    Huntn

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    #1
    At the recent Congressional hearings focused on the Big Oil Companies, executives from the top 4 explained that despite having RECORD profits, if Congress eradicates their tax subsides which amount to 1% of their profits, the price of oil would just have to go up.

    Can any reasonable person in this forum offer an alternate explanation of why such executives have the nerve to say this with a straight face? My impression is that they are totally out of touch with reality. All the more reason to get off fossil fuels.
     
  2. flopticalcube macrumors G4

    flopticalcube

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    #2
    It's a bluff since "Big Oil" controls such a small part of the world's oil supply.
     
  3. Huntn thread starter macrumors G5

    Huntn

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    #3
    For some perspective, the year that Exxon gave it's retiring CEO a $400M severance package, they underfunded their pension account. Couldn't afford it. :mad:
     
  4. samiwas macrumors 65816

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    #4
    The CEO was worth that, because that's what the market decided. Rank and file workers are worth nothing, because the market decided that...we should know this by now.
     
  5. Huntn thread starter macrumors G5

    Huntn

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    #5
    Is this your feelings or your observation? Morality to a great degree dictates the relative worth of leadership to the rank and file workers who make a company function. Greed is the absence of morality.
     
  6. flopticalcube macrumors G4

    flopticalcube

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    #6
    There certainly seems to be a huge disconnect between CEO pay and median pay over the last 20-30 years. Over the last 10 years or so there has also been a huge disconnect between CEO pay and shareholder return. Something has gone awry.
     
  7. IntelliUser macrumors 6502

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    Even the Grand Oil Party hasn't been able to brainwash that many people on this issue

    [​IMG]
     
  8. samiwas macrumors 65816

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    #8
    It's my sarcasm. I thought it would come through, knowing my opinions on this type of matter expressed before. Add these: :rolleyes: :p ;)
     
  9. Huntn thread starter macrumors G5

    Huntn

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    #9
    The Republican Agenda moving ahead full force. How can it be controlled?

    Thanks for clarifying. I should have known. :)
     
  10. flopticalcube macrumors G4

    flopticalcube

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    I don't think it can. Fortunately, or unfortunately, it possesses within it the seeds of it's own demise in that such a disconnect is invariably short-term and unsustainable or at the very least unstable. The end will be ugly, at least for some in that it could end in a revolution, but this is not very likely IMO. More likely a systemic crisis at some point will force people to rethink the current arrangements and support proposals for a better framework.
     
  11. itcheroni macrumors 6502a

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    #11
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    It's ridiculous to subsidize oil. I'm in complete agreement there.

    As for CEO versus average worker pay, when you get a new job, you usually have a contract that specifies what you will do and how much you will be compensated. I don't think that's unfair.
     
  12. maflynn Moderator

    maflynn

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    #12
    You do realize that if congress eliminates the tax credits, the cost will be passed on to us. I do not consider that a bluff but a harsh reality. I think its ridiculous that they enjoy such tax credits, but I'm under no illusion that it will be us the consumer who will suffer if congress removes those tax credits.
     
  13. Huntn thread starter macrumors G5

    Huntn

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    #13
    Lets take an extreme, how about the CEO signs a contract giving him/her 99.9% of the available profits, and the remainder gets divided among all other employees? Why sure the CEO will think it's wonderful. Why would you possibly think that is fair?

    It's only passed to us because they want to, not because they have to. Greed has that effect. This is why we need an effective government looking out for average citizens. It might also be a good argument why capitalism is doomed in the long run.
     
  14. samiwas macrumors 65816

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    #14
    Did all of the workers get together and decide that they would not get a raise while the CEO gets a new contract with an extra $3 million a year? No, the only people who have any effect on that decision are the CEO and the board, and maybe some shareholders. Because you know that when times are bad, the workers will be asked to take a pay cut, while more than likely the CEO will not (and might still get a raise!). Rarely do they see the benefits of good times. Should that be considered fair? It really is kind of unfair that worker pay has stayed stagnant for decades while CEOs and boards have given themselves several hundred percent increases in pay.

    I know that some recent proxy paperwork from one of my stocks came with a vote ballot for voting on several things. One of them said "The board STRONGLY RECOMMENDS you vote YES for this: Increased compensation for CEO" or something to that effect...I don't have it with me. But i know I voted "no" without even a half-second thought.

    Of course, this is OT, so back to it.
     
  15. NT1440 macrumors G4

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    #15
    So, pay for it pre-pump via subsidies, or pay for it actually at the pump.

    I'll take option C, end the subsidies and write regulations that keep costs from being arbitrarily passed onto consumers. Perhaps some type of consumer protection agency......:rolleyes:

    God knows that we refuse to accept anything that harms record profits year after year in the USA. Regular profit just isn't good enough, gotta be earth shattering, regardless of how many people you need to **** over to do it.

    USA!USA!USA!
     
  16. itcheroni macrumors 6502a

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    #16
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    If there wasn't a minimum wage law, would you accept a job for 1 cent/hour?

    No, the fairness is in your right not to accept that job. And how many people do you think would be lining up for such jobs? And what kind of talent would take that job? Do you know any person who would take that job?
     
  17. Merkava_4 macrumors 6502a

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  18. Huntn thread starter macrumors G5

    Huntn

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    #18
    First of all mine was an example of an extreme to make a point and the point apparently sailed over your head. Your only standard of fair was that someone signed a contract. You are delusional, or myopic in your views if this example or "quitting if you don't like it", is your version of fair, lol. This is typically the conservative position, "you don't like it quit." How about everyone does their duty and goes to college, but the large corporations on offer jobs at minimum wage because they can, because there is an overabundance of college degree holders? Maybe it's fair if the workers who make the company function take over said company and eject the blood suckers at the top? Sounds just as fair as what you propose. ;) The my point is that for capitalism to function well, there must be a balance. You are apparently ok with gluttons at the top. I am not. It is not moral (my standard of morality).
     
  19. Arran macrumors 68040

    Arran

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    #19
    I'd prefer to pay for it at the pump. Force the oil companies compete with each other on price. No more easy money for them.
     
  20. barkomatic macrumors 68040

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    #20
    Eliminating the subsidy is almost irrelevant. Sooner or later we are going to have to figure out a way to transport people without using so much oil. Either people will work from home more, move closer to their work and shopping areas, or use transport that isn't powered by gas. Perhaps a combination of these options will work some day. As crazy as it sounds, even riding a horse to work might end up being cheaper.

    Its gonna be hard. It seems most of the country was built around a suburban concept when oil was cheap.
     
  21. itcheroni macrumors 6502a

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    #21
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    What degree did those hypothetical college students graduate with? Was it electrical engineering or english literature? There are plenty of fields where a qualified person would have the upper hand in negotiating with an employer. Try hiring a plumber or electrician for minimum wage. What you're imagining in your head doesn't match with reality. And why aren't there more opportunities available in the marketplace for the hypothetical college graduates? I would say a lack of capital and too much regulation. So let's raise taxes on investments and pass new legislation. How about raising the minimum wage to $20/hr? That would certainly be a fair living wage would it not?
     
  22. Mousse macrumors 68000

    Mousse

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    #22
    Darth Vader: Perhaps you think you're being treated unfairly?
    Lando: [after a pause; nervous tone] No.

    It sickens me to see such greedy SOB's running Corporate America. We need more CEO's like Haruka Nishimatsu.
     
  23. barkomatic macrumors 68040

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    #23
    The problem is not everyone can afford to do that. If gas climbed to $6 a gallon it would no longer be worth it for millions of low paid workers to drive to their jobs. They can't move closer to populated areas because of higher rent--they would be stuck.
     
  24. Merkava_4 macrumors 6502a

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    #24
    How about a replacement for petroleum oil?
     
  25. nate13 macrumors 6502

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    #25
    RE the OP,

    Because "Big Oil" is a group of corporations. Corporations are interested in dividends, growth, profit, investment- none of which have a moral compass. When such alarming things happen in the USA, people who have traditionally been shielded from such practices (we were on the receiving end of the trickle down benefits for the last 100 years!) will naturally be alarmed. But let's not forget the 'Banana Republics' of the world that have suffered through so much just so we could have the standard of living we are so accustomed to. Or our own countrymen who have been degraded by the economy to work service industry jobs instead of creating or manufacturing. Sadly, all the so called cons of modern day society are a part of corporations, and they are like I said, driven by a very cruel master- the market. Not to say vested interests won't defend the giants, but truly they are not stoppable except by law or by choice of the masses (if we have one left).
     

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