Bill Palmer thinks the Mac Mini is a lemon


jimsowden

macrumors 68000
Sep 6, 2003
1,766
16
NY
I'm textless. What is this guy's deal? So many inept arguments, and he seems to have no comprehension of how consumers act and think. There's only one way to stick it to him now, lets get selling.
 

Steven1621

macrumors 6502a
Apr 10, 2003
796
0
Connecticut
jimsowden said:
I'm textless. What is this guy's deal? So many inept arguments, and he seems to have no comprehension of how consumers act and think. There's only one way to stick it to him now, lets get selling.
agreed. couldn't have put it better myself
 

24C

macrumors 6502a
Nov 9, 2004
519
0
Oh dear, this guy never gets out much. That was a hell of lot bile and rhetoric I just scanned in.

Once you start on that slippery slope it's hard to stop, and that article proved it. Wow
 

brap

macrumors 68000
May 10, 2004
1,701
0
Nottingham
Sigh.

I do think Apple would be sensible to offer a slightly reduced KB & Mouse package with the Mini purchase, but it's here nor there. Just look at the number of people on this board, right now who have put in orders for this machine - to add to their collection, to switch, to give to their parents... et cetera.

Sit back Bill, put away that cloudy crystal ball, take a chill pill and watch the real world.
 

3Memos

macrumors 6502
Jan 12, 2005
460
0
Bill Palmer said:
Apple can take its idiot box and stick it where the sun don't shine
Seriously, is this guy for real? How can anyone take this guy seriously when the first sentence starts off like this?
 

24C

macrumors 6502a
Nov 9, 2004
519
0
3Memos said:
Seriously, is this guy for real? How can anyone take this guy seriously when the first sentence starts off like this?
I don't think most people will, but his brashness and simplistic rantings will sadly appeal to some.
 

3Memos

macrumors 6502
Jan 12, 2005
460
0
24C said:
I don't think most people will, but his brashness and simplistic rantings will sadly appeal to some.
I read the first 2 paragraphs and stopped. It would have been a waste of time. :)
 

dashiel

macrumors 6502a
Nov 12, 2003
876
0
yeah, and the ipod is too expensive, and who'd buy a mini when for $50 more they can get a 20GB ipod. i don't recall when in the past 10 years when apple has introduced low priced kit and it failed.

i'd bet $100 on the mac mini becoming the best selling mac this year, if not in history. i know i'll be buying a couple.

as stated above, i think he's just mad that he got his "apple will never release a budget imac" post wrong.
 

Saad

macrumors member
May 14, 2004
30
0
I think he's right. For $500, I would expect a keyboard and mouse, if not a display. A comparable PC, the T2984 from emachines includes a keyboard and mouse (and comparable software/hardware).
 

24C

macrumors 6502a
Nov 9, 2004
519
0
3Memos said:
I read the first 2 paragraphs and stopped. It would have been a waste of time. :)
I didn't stop, it was a waste of time, but I was only waiting for the kettle to boil:)
 

hcuar

macrumors 65816
Jul 23, 2004
1,065
0
Dallas
Saad said:
I think he's right. For $500, I would expect a keyboard and mouse, if not a display. A comparable PC, the T2984 from emachines includes a keyboard and mouse (and comparable software/hardware).
1) It's an eMachine.
2) I very much doubt that the software is comparable. I don't think any PC comes with anything near iLife.
 

fabsgwu

macrumors regular
May 6, 2003
229
0
Washington, DC
they just lowered the price of the apple keyboard and mouse to $29 each, much better than the $60 the keyboard used to cost... and I personnally prefer mice with at least two buttons and at minimum a scroll wheel.

http://store.apple.com/1-800-MY-APPLE/WebObjects/AppleStore.woa/72202/wo/rM2NwSTfqIIS3FPekvB2krtJuE8/0.0.11.1.0.6.21.1.6.1.0.0.0.1.0

but you're right, they should offer set packages with the mini.

brap said:
Sigh.

I do think Apple would be sensible to offer a slightly reduced KB & Mouse package with the Mini purchase, but it's here nor there. Just look at the number of people on this board, right now who have put in orders for this machine - to add to their collection, to switch, to give to their parents... et cetera.

Sit back Bill, put away that cloudy crystal ball, take a chill pill and watch the real world.
 

Ensoniq

macrumors regular
Jul 16, 2002
131
1
Bronx, NY
Saad said:
I think he's right. For $500, I would expect a keyboard and mouse, if not a display. A comparable PC, the T2984 from emachines includes a keyboard and mouse (and comparable software/hardware).
As someone who owns an eMachines (T2542), I can definitely say that it's really not comparable to the Mac mini. I use my eMachine for Quicken (since Quicken for Mac is a joke) and some general web use. I don't do anything fancy with it, but since I'm a computer tech I need to know both PCs and Macs. (And have been working with both for over 20 years.) But my recently purchased iBook 1.2 GHz 12" runs circles around my PC.

There is no PC software I've ever seen that comes close to iLife. Windows XP is far from being close to OS X. My PC probably runs faster in some benchmarks, but on a day to day basis I'd rather work on my old 400 MHz G3 iMac (Grape, baby!). And in mosts light tasks, there is no difference between my 5 year old iMac and a recent eMachines model. Only when you start doing serious number crunching or game playing would you notice.

I happen to think the Mac mini is a great machine, for what it is. I think people that are spending close to $1000 for a fully loaded Mac mini when the G5 iMac is only $1300 are wasting their money. But it's two different targets. The Mac mini was built to attract two special crowds...PC switchers who already have the monitor/keyboard/mouse and want the lowest possible price, or the "Cube Lover" type who will buy this "cheap" computer fully loaded for $1000+ with a $1000 20" Cinema Display.

Those people are find with spending $2000 to be part of a special "clique" of people who will knowingly buy a less-powerful machine than the G5s that are available. But right now the Mac mini is Apple's coolest machine, G5 or not, and that itself guarantees Apple's will sell a ton of them.

Power-hounds will buy the iMac or the PowerMac. That's because power-hounds SHOULD do that, and Apple knows for that reason that their iMac and PowerMac lines are not in jeopardy.

Apple's mini slogan should have been:

"Introducing the Mac mini ... for Switchers and Cliquers". :)
 

mklos

macrumors 68000
Dec 4, 2002
1,896
0
My house!
Saad said:
I think he's right. For $500, I would expect a keyboard and mouse, if not a display. A comparable PC, the T2984 from emachines includes a keyboard and mouse (and comparable software/hardware).
I think your both wrong. You get things that aren't even available on most $499 PCs:

1. DVI Port (*VGA too with an adapter) Most PCs come with ONLY VGA...
2. FireWire 400
3. Ethernet (I know some come with it, but most don't)
4. CDRW/DVD Combo Drive (Most $499 PCs come with a 52x CDROM)
5. ATI Radeon 9200 Pro (32 MB of RAM NOT SHARED RAM!) Most if not all $499 PCs use shared RAM for video.

6. iLife '05 (NOTHING on the PC side compares to it)
7. Quicken 2005 (possibly 2004, but you get the point)
8. AppleWorks (yes a crappy office suite, but at least you get one!)
9. AirPort Extreme/Bluetooth ready...PCs don't have it available (PCI Cards yes I know, but not internal)

10. Mac OS X.3.x (Winblows DOES NOT compare to it.)


$499 PCs come with very little, if any software at all. Crap like real player and Winblows Media player don't count as they're free anyways. You don't get any games, office suites, financial software, etc...

Where's the software/hardware comparison???

Now to get back at me...go out and spend an hour or so looking for a $499 or slightly higher PC with these, or most of these options and make up some kind of story that nobody will buy.
 

xtbfx

macrumors regular
Nov 18, 2003
221
0
I think everyone is forgetting the point here.

Apple puts out the mini with no monitor, keyboard, mouse because it's primary target is switchers. Everyone that uses a PC already has a monitor, mouse and keyboard that they are familiar with. Why make them 'switch' to a one button mouse and different keyboard?

The whole point of the mini is to buy it, then plug it in to your existing setup, not buy everything else to go with it.
 

xtremdav45

macrumors newbie
Dec 22, 2003
19
0
Here is a simple solution Apple can do to handle the "PS/2 Keyboard/mouse" problem.

Sell adapters in the store that let you plug in a PS/2 Keyboard and Mouse then plug the adapter into a USB port. I believe Fry's Electronics had them for free after rebate this weekend. It would be a simple, and cheap solution for Apple to sell these in their stores.

And regarding the monitor problem, if Apple was interested in getting as many mac mini's out as possible, they could have their employees tell people that they could go to Best Buy and buy a $100 monitor instead of the $999 display Apple makes.
 

Finn

macrumors newbie
Sep 6, 2000
9
0
We'll see.

Eventually the proof of the pudding is in the eating. And I wonder: will Bill eat his words if he is proven wrong?
 

Mav451

macrumors 68000
Jul 1, 2003
1,657
0
Maryland
PS/2 to USB adapters have some serious issues, at least on the PC side. While USB::pS/2 converters have no lag issues, gamers have had problems with PS/2::USB converters giving a shoddy connection. E.g., mouse stops responding for the slightest second, or your keyboard dropping a few letters.

It has been said that the native connection is the best. USB to USB. PS/2 to PS/2.
 

mklos

macrumors 68000
Dec 4, 2002
1,896
0
My house!
xtremdav45 said:
Here is a simple solution Apple can do to handle the "PS/2 Keyboard/mouse" problem.

Sell adapters in the store that let you plug in a PS/2 Keyboard and Mouse then plug the adapter into a USB port. I believe Fry's Electronics had them for free after rebate this weekend. It would be a simple, and cheap solution for Apple to sell these in their stores.

And regarding the monitor problem, if Apple was interested in getting as many mac mini's out as possible, they could have their employees tell people that they could go to Best Buy and buy a $100 monitor instead of the $999 display Apple makes.
PS2 to USB adapters aren't very reliable. You can buy a USB keyboard for as little as $10, and a GOOD USB Optical Mouse for as little as $10. So for $20 you can have a good USB keyboard and mouse.

As for a display.... Well I think its time that Apple release a 17" Widescreen Aluminum Display. They already have the screen. Knock off the FireWire ports and just keep the USB ports. Sell it for around $500 to $600, and offer a discount when buying this with the Mini to attract customers to this display. I think this would also help PowerMac sales. I want a PowerMac very badly, and I want a matching display, but paying $2400 for a PowerMac and $1000 for a display is a little much.
 

2GMario

macrumors regular
Mar 11, 2004
184
0
maybe its just me and the fact that i am in a extreamly ****** mood right now, but does it sound like to anyone else that hes litterally screaming at the reader ?

i havent read the entire article as i cannot even comprehend what this persons problem is with apple. It appears that he thinks every single thing apple has done to date has either been a waste of time, money or both.

im not going to go into everything apple has done right, most of us are apple users and most of us allready know the success of the ipod, g5, etc... but i will offer my 2 cents

i have a use for a mac mini. i have a dual 1.8 G5, and i have a ibook 12 inch.

I have the extreme power on 1 hand, and i have the extreme portability on the other.

BUT, i am also a computer junky, i have numerous spare parts laying around my entire house. litterly, keyboards, hard drives, memory, all kinds of ****

could i walk into the apple store on the 22nd, and walk out with just the mini ? yes, i have the rest of the stuff.

could ur average person do the same ? probably not, but heres my point.

For those of us that have a G5, ibook, powerbook, etc... the mac mini is a nice addition. ur not gonna spend another 2k+ on a g5 when u can easily spend $500 now on a mini and get by for a maybe not primary pc.

your average user on the other hand will see the add in compusa or walk by the store, and say, look, a apple for $500, i've heard of apple before, we need a new pc, lets stop in and check it out.

It is then the sole purpose of the salesman to then educate the buyer and say look, yes this is a mac, yes it runs OS X, no u will never get virus's, and this is a fine pc, but if you have a bit more cash, here is a even better iMac, or a far superior G5.

does this person really think, if you called up dell looking to purchase their crap $500 pc that the salesman is gonna let u go on that alone ? that there would be no chance of a upsale ?

i cannot agree totally with the no keyboard and no mouse deal. seriously, lets face it, i have yet to see a new PC come with a usb keyboard or mouse. i recently installed a brand new Dell at a neighbors house, pretty high end one, not the run of the mill crap $500 job, and it came with a ps2 keyboard and mouse.

in my opinion, for those of us with a Mac of any form allready, this is a pc that we can use as a extra one around the house, etc... without spending a ton on a iMac or G5 again.

for those of you without a Apple allready, prepare for a upsale when u go into the store.

My 2 cents.
-Mario
 

Littleodie914

macrumors 68000
Jun 9, 2004
1,813
7
Rochester, NY
mklos said:
I think your both wrong. You get things that aren't even available on most $499 PCs:

1. DVI Port (*VGA too with an adapter) Most PCs come with ONLY VGA...
2. FireWire 400
3. Ethernet (I know some come with it, but most don't)
4. CDRW/DVD Combo Drive (Most $499 PCs come with a 52x CDROM)
5. ATI Radeon 9200 Pro (32 MB of RAM NOT SHARED RAM!) Most if not all $499 PCs use shared RAM for video.

6. iLife '05 (NOTHING on the PC side compares to it)
7. Quicken 2005 (possibly 2004, but you get the point)
8. AppleWorks (yes a crappy office suite, but at least you get one!)
9. AirPort Extreme/Bluetooth ready...PCs don't have it available (PCI Cards yes I know, but not internal)

10. Mac OS X.3.x (Winblows DOES NOT compare to it.)


$499 PCs come with very little, if any software at all. Crap like real player and Winblows Media player don't count as they're free anyways. You don't get any games, office suites, financial software, etc...

Where's the software/hardware comparison???

Now to get back at me...go out and spend an hour or so looking for a $499 or slightly higher PC with these, or most of these options and make up some kind of story that nobody will buy.
Couldn't have said it better myself. And I honestly don't see how he can believe that all PC's 3 or 4 years old are using 15" CRT monitors... I have a 15" CRT that came with our 68k powermac nearly 10 years ago :eek: