Black Power - Africa and the West

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by OldCorpse, May 16, 2007.

  1. OldCorpse macrumors 65816

    OldCorpse

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    #1
    Here's something with a longer perspective than the immediate issues of the West's intervention du jour in the third world. It is not a perspective of assigning blame. There's plenty to spread around: the cold war interventions, the influence of business, the CIA overthrowing duly elected governments in Africa; and on the other side: the corruption in young African countries, human fallibility, greed, and inablitity to anticipate.

    This is a bit more philosophical, and not suitable for the usual Demo/Repub battles, so it'll probably get no comments. I think it is interesting in its own right, and I hope some of you can enjoy it.

    The first couple of minutes or so are the intro, the show starts soon after:

    http://www.youtube.com/p.swf?video_...t=OEgsToPDskJYW7QkoBzIau5s693iCidu&autoplay=1
     
  2. Desertrat macrumors newbie

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    #2
    Just a short bit; I didn't wait through the loading period.

    When you look at Mugabe's "government", or the murder rate in South Africa and other problems there...Or the various west African coast countries...It's a helluva mess. Some, but nowhere near all, is the fault of the "line-drawers" of Europe and the disregard of tribal areas. Since the end of colonialism there has been little justification for pride in hardly any African country.

    Stories from Peace Corps folks from western Africa ("WAWA: West Africa wins again.") and Ethiopia were prevalent, decades back. It hasn't gotten better with age.

    Lots of foreign aid money in Swiss and Cayman bank accounts...

    'Rat
     
  3. OldCorpse thread starter macrumors 65816

    OldCorpse

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    #3
    Yep, there's blame to share all around. It irks me when so many on the left downplay or ignore the fact that a lot of what's wrong with the 3rd world can in fact be found exactly in the 3rd. world. The responsibility cannot be 100% the West. To maintain otherwise merely hurts Africa, because it provides an easy excuse to overlook their own faults and makes it impossible to correct mistakes. Not to mention it provides rich justification for guys like Mugabe to destroy their own country ("Britain is doing it!").

    I don't toe the line for the left or the right - and so usually have no allies in these type of discussions :)
     
  4. Desertrat macrumors newbie

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    #4
    The current issue of Soldier of Fortune magazine has an excellent article showing--in between the lines fashion, to a great extent--the amount of double-dealing, paranoia and brutality in Africa. Many past articles which are equally illustrative, as well.

    Great place to not go.

    'Rat
     
  5. Peterkro macrumors 68020

    Peterkro

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    #5
    I'd don't think many people are under any illusion about the corruption of the power elite in Africa they are to blame as are the meddling of the west (US included).Since the beginnings of the slave trade the wealth of Africa has been drained by capitalists with all the horror that entails.Do not make the mistake of blaming Africans in general for the corruption of their leaders (just as we don't blame americans for the horrors of Bush et al)
     
  6. Desertrat macrumors newbie

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    #6
    peterkro, I think your comments are more apropos to pre-WW II doings than for post-colonial behaviors...

    'Rat
     
  7. skunk macrumors G4

    skunk

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    #7
    Firstly, "post-colonialism" only started in 1960, and secondly, most of the ugliest post-colonial regimes were installed and have been maintained with the overt or covert help of the erstwhile colonial powers or their commercial proxies.
     
  8. Desertrat macrumors newbie

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    #8
    Other than France, what colonial powers, which countries? Certainly not in Mozambique or South Africa. Or Chad, Somalia or Ethiopia. Kenya? How about the various smaller, newer countries in the Big Bend of west Africa? Which colonial powers? They're certainly not encouraging "One man, one vote, one time."

    'Rat
     
  9. miloblithe macrumors 68020

    miloblithe

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    Washington, DC
    #9
    Rat, what exactly are you arguing here? That African countries established their own political systems without any outside influence or interference in the post-colonial era? Even if any major powers had wanted to allow that, the incentives of the cold war made it impossible. A better question would be in which African countries did former-colonial powers, the US, and USSR not work to heavily influence. I think the answer will be just about 0.

    And Mozambique? Portugal was very insistent about holding on to its colonies. Mozambique didn't even become independent until 1975, after more than 10 years of war.
     
  10. Desertrat macrumors newbie

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    #10
    What I'm arguing is that "outside meddling" does not force the various countries' power structures to routinely use torture and to routinely steal vast amounts of money which wind up in hidden bank accounts. Outside meddling does not cause leaders to ignore the plight of their poverty-stricken, and to shun those actions which are well-proven to enable better lives for them.

    'Rat
     

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