blast from the past

zimv20

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Jul 18, 2002
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war has begun

i read through a good chunk of that thread last night. makes for interesting reading, knowing what we do today. my, how thing's have changed.

and i kept calling people "dude". what's up with that?
 

mactastic

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Apr 24, 2003
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Lol... I'll resist the urge to quote some of DHM's posts here. I'm sure he'd be horrified. It truly is amazing how far he's come since then.
 

IJ Reilly

macrumors P6
Jul 16, 2002
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Now there's a memory flogger. I can't believe I didn't post once in that entire thread. BTW, notice something odd about it? One poster (Stelliform) deleted all of his posts in this thread last October. Based on the parts quoted back, I'd have to guess he was embarrassed. Anybody else?
 

Thomas Veil

macrumors 68020
Feb 14, 2004
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Man, do a lot of us sound dumb in that thread...not comprehending what was really going on.

I'm not pointing to anyone in particular, because there was plenty of naiveté to go around. And I'm not excusing myself, even though I was a non-participant in that thread, because frankly by that point I'd bought many of the pro-war arguments myself. Duh!

Bush himself may be a stupid man, but he's been an incredible education to the rest of us.
 

tristan

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Jul 19, 2003
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I was just getting back into the country after MBA graduation to look for a job. Love that Bush recession, hope it ends some day. Since then I've been unemployed about as often as I'm working, despite my MBA, my certs, experience, etc.

Sure, I supported the Iraq war. I thought it would be a quick war, like Afghanistan. I also thought we'd find WMDs, thanks to Powell and 80% of congress/senate. Then I got to find out that 9/11 was preventable, that we knew all about bin Laden, that there were no WMDs, that an insurgency had showed up in Iraq, that Tenet was a liar, etc. And nobody took any responsibility for the mistakes. Tenet even got a medal. It's like I'm in bizarro world. FYI I came from Singapore, the best run country on earth that handled a SARS outbreak with ease. In this country, we can't deal with a hurricane with a week's warning. And what ever happened to bin Laden? or that guy who mailed out all the Anthrax? Were we supposed to forget all about them?

It's been a pretty lousy almost three years for me and my country. When my wife's ready to move on, I'm out of here and never looking back, besides from the occasional family visit.
 

Dont Hurt Me

macrumors 603
Dec 21, 2002
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mactastic said:
Lol... I'll resist the urge to quote some of DHM's posts here. I'm sure he'd be horrified. It truly is amazing how far he's come since then.
Thank you ,Im scared to go look but who would have ever thought that Bush and the Gang would screw this war up so Bad? who would have thought it would cost us over 300 billion? 2,000 lives 15,000 injured and still be nowhere except we got Saddam. Whatever happened to Taft?
 

zimv20

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IJ Reilly said:
Based on the parts quoted back, I'd have to guess he was embarrassed. Anybody else?
yeah, i noticed that, too. glad there's a "paper" trail, though.

interesting to see how the marketing of the war took hold. pretty effective.
 

pseudobrit

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Jul 23, 2002
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Thomas Veil said:
Man, do a lot of us sound dumb in that thread...not comprehending what was really going on.
I think there were a small number of us who nailed it dead nuts. At the risk of sounding like a pompous ass, I was bold and still pretty darn close, which is surprising because I was being extremely contrarian and thought I sticking my neck out pretty far. Zim made excellent arguments that messed with the pro-war crowd's heads quite a bit (or would have if they weren't so dense).

I can honestly say today that very little of what I said back then turned out to be way off base. I think my worst transgression was to presume that Saddam would still be in possession of some old, crusty mothballed chemical shells from the 80s.
 

Dont Hurt Me

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Dec 21, 2002
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zimv20 said:
a number of us did. have a look.
I did, I was voting republican back then:rolleyes: not anymore after seeing 5 years of Bush and the Republican Gang. If a lot of folks could go back and vote Gore they would. Bush/Cheney are a abomination to this Great Country of ours and every thing it stands for. Little things like Freedom,Liberty,Justice have been replaced with Secret jails, Lots of Spin,Patriot Act, and maneuvering around our own Laws.
 

zimv20

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pseudobrit said:
I think my worst transgression was to presume that Saddam would still be in possession of some old, crusty mothballed chemical shells from the 80s.
that's where i was off-base, too. i thought there'd be something found, and then we'd get to argue if it was significant enough to warrant the invasion. and then i claimed that there's no way the bush administration would let nothing be found (i.e. they'd plant it).

what was most interesting to me, in the re-read, was how people answered my question of what pro-war people thought would constitute bush going too far. in certain ways, a number of those conditions were met.
 

Dont Hurt Me

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Dec 21, 2002
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We all were fooled by a lack of Cental Intelligence,Lots of Spin by George and Cheney, remember the yellowcake crap, Its clear now they had The Oil & Haliburton agenda. Bush?Cheney dont represent the people they represent some powerful corporations. America is a slow learner but as i have predicted in other threads the they will wake up to where the Republican party is taking this country. Its why we havent let Republicans run everything in 50 years. America is waking up!:) Lets just hope we can repair all this damage this president has created.
 

rdowns

macrumors Penryn
Jul 11, 2003
27,345
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Very interesting read. Did you notice some had gone back and deleted their posts a year or so later?

DHM, I was tempted to post a quote or two from you but I'll refrain. :D
 

mactastic

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Apr 24, 2003
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rdowns said:
Very interesting read. Did you notice some had gone back and deleted their posts a year or so later?
Yes, IJ noted that earlier in this thread.

DHM, I was tempted to post a quote or two from you but I'll refrain. :D
Now, now... I've already tormented him enough on that issue. He's made amends.

I wonder about G4Scott though...
 

Dont Hurt Me

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Dec 21, 2002
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rdowns said:
Very interesting read. Did you notice some had gone back and deleted their posts a year or so later?

DHM, I was tempted to post a quote or two from you but I'll refrain. :D
Glad you didnt, cause if you did i might let it slip that you were responsible for me getting a Alienware and not a G5 Powermac:cool: :D
 

solvs

macrumors 603
Jun 25, 2002
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I came late to the party, but that would have been fun. That was just about the time my best friend was being sent to Quatar and missed the birth of his child. I remember being for the "War on Terrorism", but then we went to Iraq. Didn't make any sense to me at the time. I remember asking people why they supported us going to Iraq, and the answer was always the same... 9/11. When I would point out the obvious, I got a lot of blank stares. I didn't realize it would get this bad though. I can't believe we're still there. It just baffles me.

But hey, Bush only has a ~35% approval rating, so it's not just us.
 

tristan

macrumors 6502a
Jul 19, 2003
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I think Afghanistan gave many of us false expectations for Iraq. I was overseas when 9/11 happened, and one of my British friends argued that it was foolhardy to go into Afghanistan, and that the Russians had gotten bogged down there for years, and the same thing would happen to us.

I listened to his arguments, but thought that going into afghanistan was something we had to do given 9/11, and was pleasantly surprised when we got out of there pretty quickly and set up a relatively stable government. When the same arguments came up about Iraq, I laughed them off, but in that case, the arguments were valid.
 

Sun Baked

macrumors G5
May 19, 2002
14,874
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You bastards ...

I told you so -- every pro-Bush statement I said came true.

Er, wait a minute.

I didn't even post there. ;)
 

mactastic

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Apr 24, 2003
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tristan said:
I think Afghanistan gave many of us false expectations for Iraq. I was overseas when 9/11 happened, and one of my British friends argued that it was foolhardy to go into Afghanistan, and that the Russians had gotten bogged down there for years, and the same thing would happen to us.

I listened to his arguments, but thought that going into afghanistan was something we had to do given 9/11, and was pleasantly surprised when we got out of there pretty quickly and set up a relatively stable government. When the same arguments came up about Iraq, I laughed them off, but in that case, the arguments were valid.
I would argue that Afghanistan would have turned out like Iraq -- or much more similar to the Soviet experience -- had we tried to occupy the country with large numbers of American troops.

I also am reserving judgment on whether Afghanistan should be considered a success yet. The Taliban doesn't seem quite defeated yet, and bin Laden is still on the loose in the region. Women don't seem terribly liberated outside Kabul, and in fact warlords seem to control everything outside the capitol. Opium production is up, and with opium trafficking comes crime.