BootCamp! The Death Of Mac Games Development?

Discussion in 'Games' started by MRU, Apr 6, 2006.

  1. MRU Suspended


    Aug 23, 2005
    Ok fairly strong topic line, but warranted.

    If you can now run windows nativly with apple supplying drivers and means to go about doing so (albeit not the xp itself)

    What's the point of putting up with piss poor mac conversions 6 - 12 months after pc game release?

    Mac games development must be in serious danger.

    Even if dual boot doesnt appeal to everyone, with leopard's virutalization software making xp on mac even easier, is it not a case that the inevitable will happen and mac games conversion will simply die out.....

    Of course Virtual PC will be kind of redundant at this point too (albeit for PPC users)..

    What do you peeps think? :)
  2. shanmui1 macrumors member

    Nov 12, 2005
    Hongkong, China
    Mac ports of PC games are dead, but Macs are going to get stronger and stronger. VPC is dead too. :)
  3. Haoshiro macrumors 68000


    Feb 9, 2006
    USA, KS
    I think this may hurt Porting, but that is all. If a large percentage of mac users that bought ports stop because of this, then sure.

    I don't see any reason this would hurt original game development, though.
  4. MRU thread starter Suspended


    Aug 23, 2005
    V. True, but I hate to say it because it's so cliche 'hardcore' gamers are going to go for the fastest, best option. And that is to dual boot.

    V.PC is dead in the water now though. I'm stil waiting for universal updates for games like RCT3, well know I've just been playing RCT3 on windows, with all the expansion packs and any thought of investing money is poor conversions has dissapeared into a gaping abyss...
  5. asphalt-proof macrumors 6502a

    Aug 15, 2003
    I think that in a way, Apple is saying "we don't care if gaming dies or not." SO long as people continue to buy their hardware they really don't care what OS game people put on it.
  6. Atlasland macrumors 6502

    Aug 20, 2005
    London, UK
    Mac Games are dead. Long live Games on the Mac.
  7. Cohiba macrumors member


    Jun 15, 2004
    Boston, MA
    I think you're right, Mac game development / porting is on the endangered species list now... but it that a bad thing? I dont think so, I hate windows but I'll jump at the chance to have a Mac machine that can run both. As a small business owner there are a lot of times that I wished I had a windows box to run or utilise several ASP based app's...

    Let Appple stick to creating the best OS ever, truely great machines, and the windows propellar heads to developing kick-butt games :cool:
  8. greatdevourer macrumors 68000

    Aug 5, 2005
    I hope more studios go Blizzard and release the Mac and PC versions on the same disk, especially when 10.5 comes out (what with being able to run Carbon apps on Windows). We're also going to get the same number of Mac-built games (eg, Lugaru). However, we're probably going to see a drop in Mac ports
  9. mike07905 macrumors member

    Apr 6, 2006
    does it matter>??

    Will it really matter if mac games puplishers feel the pinch now that they arnt working in a closed market? everything els on the mac is a good five years ahead of windows. I wudnt expect there is much to worry about with vista either in terms of it catching up. SO why have the games been complete rubbish for so long....?
    You can argue its because of hardware restrictions, or because macs low market share means that they dont have hundreds of staff working on aspects of a game simply because they would never get the money back..
    The simple fact is, that mac game publishers have been opperating in a closed market all this time.. theyv been turning in a tidy profit every year whilst other publishers have started to feel the pinch. They know that we will be likely clamoring to buy their games regardless of their quality, or support. Its a fairly safe existance... that means that it takes 9 months and counting for Feral to Port Colin Mcrae 2005 to the mac (ile be rushing out to buy it if they finally finish their latte' and get the code finished..) it means that after 3 years MacPlay still havnt fixed the internet play on AVP 2... which has never worked.. they ofcorse still sell the game, It is completly sub-standard, and they are clearly taking us for a ride.

    It just isnt good enough. Why should we put up with this?

    I for one am not worried if the mac game publishers get a bit of competition in the shape of the vast library of excellent windows games out there! maybe if they start to fear for their existance they might get their act together, and stop churning out trype...!
  10. Cloudgazer macrumors 6502


    Apr 22, 2005
    I, for one, don't care if it hurts mac game developers.

    They've never exactly been cutting edge.
    Also the lack of communication about which games will be ported has also been frustrating.

    I don't see this hurting original game developers, but companies who specialise in porting games better get thier acts together.

    Ideally I wouldn't want to dual boot my mac. i don't want Windows on it at all, but if it means playing some decent games, I'm all for it.

    So the game developers better get better and faster at porting or they will go the way of the dodo.

    Who knows, maybe boot camp will inspire game developers to new heights.

    What ever happens I'm sure the mac gaming community is finally looking good.
  11. GFLPraxis macrumors 604


    Mar 17, 2004
    Most people WON'T be dual booting, and nobody's going to be running games in a virtual machine ;)

    Apple doesn't support Windows on Mac; as such, only the people who really, seriously require it will install it. The average user won't know how.

    On top of that, the influx of new users might make up for the ones who buy games for Windows.

    And on top of that, companies like Aspyr make money off of porting the games, not off of selling the Windows versions, so they'll be eager to make Mac ports anyway.
  12. slyydrr macrumors newbie

    Mar 22, 2006
    As far as I'm concerned, the Mac gaming industry has essentially always been nonexistant. Bilzzard is one of the few gaming companies that has been releasing PC/Mac verisons simultaneously, on the same disk. Even now that I have my MBP, and it's more than capable of running Warcraft 3, I still turn 90 degrees simply to run it on a desktop that can better support it. This to me is something I'm really looking forward to, because there's a number of PC games that aren't available on the Mac that I really wish were (Guild Wars for example).

    As far as porting of other software goes... most of the cool applications that are designed for Macs still will be, obviously because of the developing options. Also, most of the ports of Windows apps are done so simply because people want to run them on a Mac because that's their primary OS. Even though I have both a PC and Mac, I definitely plan to use any Mac version over a PC version of a program (assuming its relatively equivalent in terms of features), and even dual-booting on my MBP, I will still boot into OS X 90% of the time, unless I want to use the webcam or play Guild Wars.

    And people, let's not forget... a large majority of the Mac consumers are still running on PPC technology, and still will be for years to come. I would assume anyone smart enough to develop software (yes, there are exceptions of course) are also smart enough to realize that they can't just stop porting things over to the Mac when most Mac users are still on PPC rigs.

    So I guess to sum up: I think this is great news for Apple. Not only can I personally now have more functionality on my laptop--I also have absolutely NO regrets now that I didn't pick up a Lenovo (IBM) laptop (not that I really had any regrets to begin with... I just like games :)) instead of my MBP. Furthermore, this will only help ease the transition for first-time Apple users.
  13. Abulia macrumors 68000


    Jun 22, 2004
    Kushiel's Scion
    This is only pulling the plug on something (mac gaming) that has been on life support for waaaaay too long. No huge loss here.

    Also, there will still be a market for Mac games; the same ****** market there was before Boot Camp. The people who want to play "Sims 2" natively on their Mac aren't interested in dual-booting.

    The only people really interested in hardcore Mac gaming and dual-booting aren't the customer base of companies like Aspyr to begin with.

    The common mistake being made in threads like this is "all consumers = like me." This is not the case.
  14. MRU thread starter Suspended


    Aug 23, 2005

    Whilst I agree most wont dual boot, gamers are a more tech savvy group.
    Its the start of a process that I think will see pc games remain pc...

    As for average user not know how to install or dualboot, 1 suggestion try BootCamp.

    It's really is as simple as could be, in fact it's so pain free it's typically Apple. Step by step instructions, it makes a self installing driver cd for you and sorts out all the fussy partioning in a very simple process.

    Even using bootcamp to restore and delete your xp partition is simple click...
    Average user has little to do or fear.
  15. takao macrumors 68040


    Dec 25, 2003
    Dornbirn (Austria)
    actually i'm quite sure that in the long run it will help Apple quite a lot .. after all guess who doesn't want a mac in our house as the main computer: my brother because he wants to play games ...

    for me that would mean i can finally put my pc to rest with my next mac (which is 2 years away) i won't need to buy PC.. so essentially it will be a huge money saver with my next purchase and i can invest more of that money towards apple ;)
    and get games earlier/faster/cheaper
  16. slyydrr macrumors newbie

    Mar 22, 2006
    Exactly, good perspective. I meant to point something out about this earlier but forgot. I know a couple developers who do things w/ both PC and Mac in parallel. When travelling, they actually take two laptops with them, one w/ Windows, and one w/ OS X. Needless to say, they're extremely excited, as this is the possibility of two laptops in one, although that can't be run on top of each other, YET. A lot of buyers hesitate to get a Mac because it means that if they use that as their primary computer, all their other Windows-only software is now a waste. The days of that worry are gone!
  17. flyfish29 macrumors 68020


    Feb 4, 2003
    New HAMpshire
    So how easy will it be for companies to develop games for both PC and port it to the intel mac natively?

    Because I could see this scenario:

    Many more macs are sold to gamers because of the dual boot thing, but as the Mac becomes popular more mainstream users switch and want to play a handfull of games. They don't want to bother running a dual boot or other option so they are in the market for a Mac OS based game therefore the Mac porting companies actually have a larger base of customers to sell too. Doesn't seem too far fetched to me!

    Remember, there are a large number of windows users that don't buy Mac just because it is not what most people buy. If a large percentage of gamers and people who need to boot Windows to run one program switch, they will start coming over in he masses- the more sold the better.
  18. Abulia macrumors 68000


    Jun 22, 2004
    Kushiel's Scion
    *sigh* No different than it is today. The code still has to be ported. The only thing that makes it easier is if you build from the ground up on a more universal rendering architecture, like OpenGL. OpenGL exists on both Windows and OS X, so porting is much easier. That's how Blizzard makes WoW for both platforms concurrently.

    The majority of developers, however, use DirectX. That's Windows specific. That means porting over code, a long and labor-intensive process.

    In short, Boot Camp doesn't magically make anything easier about porting code to the Mac if you're a Windows developer.

    There aren't a lot of Mac games today because it isn't (that) profitable to make them. This isn't going to change anytime soon.
  19. nutmac macrumors 68040

    Mar 30, 2004
    This is a bit of a chicken and egg dilemma. If Boot Camp increases the sale of (Intel) Macs, the market for Mac games will be increased as well. Although Boot Camp may attract many users for playing PC games, given the choice, they will prefer to boot into Mac OS X. If anything, I think Boot Camp allows Windows switchers to experience just how poor Windows is in relation to Mac OS X first-hand.

    The only real challenge for Mac game developers is time to market. Many gamers do not want to wait 6 months or so for Mac port of popular PC games.
  20. Archmagination macrumors regular

    Dec 15, 2004
    There are 4 possibilitys with this news(Along with with the given):

    Given: A lot more macintosh computers will be sold.. (Boot Camp has the potential to at least double all mac computers sold)

    1)Porter's will stop porting games and the game market for Macs die. I don't think this will happen, but its a possibility.

    2)Nothing changes very much game porting wise. Not much of a possiblity.

    3)Demand for games to be ported to Mac increases by a lot resulting in much faster port times and much better quality ports. I think this could be a good possibilty.

    4)Company's start releasing games in dual format.. like Blizzard does. This is the one I really want to happen.. it would be great.

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