Bored with the Progressive micro analysis

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by Chew Toy McCoy, Sep 22, 2017.

  1. Chew Toy McCoy macrumors regular

    Chew Toy McCoy

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    #1
    I currently mostly lean Progressive on big issues like income inequality, education and healthcare costs, government corruption, and endless wars, but I couldn’t care less about who/what uses the bathroom, and honestly, nobody’s life matters. The latter might make me more of a Republican.

    But I’m really getting tired of the Progressive micro analyzing of all things government and big business. It’s not that they are wrong on the big picture (to me), but the “look at the smirk on their face” or “it took him 3.5 seconds to deflect the question” just makes everything seem trivial, especially when attached to a clickbait title.

    I’m sure Progressives aren’t the only ideology doing this, but it just seems like they’ve taken their eyes off the prize in pursuit of the smug moment of the hour.
     
  2. Populism macrumors regular

    Populism

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    #2
    Well said.

    And I don't want to co-opt your thread, but in my mind it's a two-part issue/problem. The first is that with the internetz, Progressives (and of course Righties or whoever) have the opportunity to indeed micro-analyze and publish worldwide every nuanced observation/criticism. The second is that because every item is micro-analyzed and published, it ultimately, quickly leads to daily - if not hourly - screams of "yet another example of how the sky is falling!" Then, when the big stuff actually does occur, people aren't listening, because the same person who is now telling you that North Korea launched an attack and that you should take cover told you yesterday that the world was ending because of this or because of that, and the same the day before that.
     
  3. Raid macrumors 68020

    Raid

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    #3
    By 'micro' do you mean 'detailed' or 'just enough analysis to confirm a view point'? Smugness abounds here in the PRSI and perhaps now that the shoe is firmly on the other foot (in terms of US leadership), 'progressives' feel they can now serve up some of the same smugness they got in the past 8 years or so.

    But agreed, it's one thing to be smug, or baiting or whatever. It's another thing to actually talk about the issue.
     
  4. BoxerGT2.5 macrumors 68000

    BoxerGT2.5

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    #4
    To be honest I think it has a lot to do with the fact that they absolutely don't want to reverse their position on things, they don't want to be introspective about how they lost the house, the senate, the WH, the supreme court, state houses up the ying yang. They would rather sit and be petulant children, taking pot shots after pot shots because they lost to Trump of all people (which is pretty friggin embarrassing, like Atlanta Falcons superbowl embarrassing).
     
  5. citizenzen macrumors 65816

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    #5
    Every ideology does it. Every person is prone to it.

    I don't know why you'd assume that this is something more prevalent on the Left. It's universal to the human condition to doubt and be cynical towards the motivations of the opposition. You'll find both sides do it depending upon the issue.

    Likewise, smugness is shared by all ideologies and is a universal human trait. If you only see it in progressives, then you're letting your political bias cloud your ability to perceive and acknowledge common human frailties shared by all.
     
  6. Chew Toy McCoy thread starter macrumors regular

    Chew Toy McCoy

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    #6
    I think you are confused about who we are talking about. You can’t lose something you didn’t have. Establishment Democrats took major losses. Progressives are just getting started and they hate establishment Democrats, possibly even more than Republicans.
     
  7. VulchR macrumors 68020

    VulchR

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    #7
    To me it sounds like there is a lot of bickering and little recognition that many people see centrist politics as untenable, so we're getting increasing volume (and noise) form both extremes of the political spectrum (if there is such a thing). Still, I'll take the micro-analysis on the left over the strange renunciation of anything remotely resembling factual evidence on the right.
     
  8. LizKat macrumors 601

    LizKat

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    #8
    Here's some micro analysis of the sort I don't mind paying attention to, although I'd hardly call the source here progressive... even if the facts might support a progressive view that the banks' squealing about overregulation should maybe be taken with a grain (or truckload) of salt:


    Excerpts (the bolding is mine):

    Lending to the most highly indebted companies in the US and Europe is surging, a development that investors worry could pressure financial markets if the global economic expansion starts to fade.

    This year the US is on pace to surpass the 2007 record of $534 billion in leveraged loans according to S&P Global Market Intelligence's LCD unit. In Europe, recent loans offered fewer investor safeguards, known as covenants, than in the past.

    70% of Europe's new leveraged loans this year are known as covenant-lite.

    ===

    Regulators are taking note. In its last quarterly report, the Bank for International Settlements noted the growth of covenant-lite loans and pointed out that US companies are more leveraged than at any time since the beginning of the millennium.
     
  9. elistan macrumors 6502a

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    #9
    Considering that some Republicans are very concerned about who uses what bathroom, and try to control that through legislation, I’d say that you’re quite non-GOP by not caring about it. Progressives are like “use whatever bathroom you want, we don’t care.”
     
  10. jkcerda macrumors 6502a

    jkcerda

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    #10
    no such thing as "income inequality"
     
  11. Chew Toy McCoy thread starter macrumors regular

    Chew Toy McCoy

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    #11

    Well that’s horse ****. Since the 80’s productivity has gone through the roof and the only people who have reaped the financial rewards from that are upper management and shareholders. The actual workers haven’t seen squat.
     
  12. VulchR macrumors 68020

    VulchR

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    #12
    Swell.

    The economic cycle can't stay on the upbeat forever. I worry that there won't be anything to fight economic downturn once the bust segment of the business cycle hits.
    --- Post Merged, Sep 26, 2017 ---
    Agreed. The main issue is wealth inequality. This touches on differential levels of education, employment, life fulfilment, and life expectancy (including infant mortality). Also, wealth inequality has an element of unearned transfer of capital (namely, inheritance and trust funds).
     
  13. LizKat macrumors 601

    LizKat

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    #13
    For those willing to get back into synthetic CDOs.... betting on derivatives of defaults on mortgage based assets rather than on the assets themselves,,,, Citibank has resurrected them, bigtime. Unbelievable. These are traditionally hard to sell to conservative investors because the potential downside can be impressive, but the returns can be high. The lending markets are considered to be getting frothier, so customers for these instruments are turning up again. In other words, it would seem we're at the part of the curve called "greed still works". The conservative investors so far reassure themselves by saying they're just dipping a toe, taking only the senior tranche and staying away from the risks (and potentially highest returns) of the equity tranche. The thing to watch and wonder about is who's shoring up the market for those equity slices.



    Excerpt:

    "There’s a tremendous amount of residual skepticism about this product,” said David Knutson, the head of credit research for Americas at Schroder Investment Management, which oversees more than $500 billion. “If you are out there trying to sell it, you better know what you are talking about.”

    Typically, these CDOs pool together about 100 different credit-default swaps tied to various companies, which are then sliced into varying levels of risk called tranches -- senior, mezzanine and equity. Over the life of a deal, which generally lasts two to three years, the swaps generate a steady stream of income for “long” investors (and are paid by “short” investors on the other side of the trade who want insurance against a potential default).

    The equity tranche has the biggest risk of getting wiped out if losses from defaults exceed roughly 5 to 7 percent, and nets the highest returns.

    During most of the post-crisis era, synthetic CDOs proved to be a tough sell. There were few takers for the lowest-yielding, senior tranche to anchor the deal. New capital requirements also made it costly for banks to hold onto the riskier portions, something they routinely did pre-crisis. That meant they needed to find buyers for every piece of the deal, in what’s known as a full capital-structure CDO.

    Leveraged Returns

    “It’s a very targeted audience,” said David Stryker, a principal at research firm Greenwich Associates. “For the dealers that are involved, it’s a targeted hand-to-hand combat approach to finding each investor.”

    Yet after years of rising markets, declining corporate defaults and tighter credit spreads, the trade is finally attracting greater interest. Increasingly, pension funds and endowments have become senior tranche investors in many of Citigroup’s synthetic CDOs. And because the CDOs are derivatives, they have small upfront costs and amplify returns.

    The safest portion, which would typically return 0.6 percent a year, can be levered up to 6 percent in some cases. Equity tranche returns can reach 20 percent.​
     
  14. jkcerda macrumors 6502a

    jkcerda

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    #14
    other than the paycheck they agreed to work for? :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:
     
  15. Chew Toy McCoy thread starter macrumors regular

    Chew Toy McCoy

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    #15
    Still a deflection and marginalizing of the worker and that is the mentality that is destroying the middle class.
     
  16. jkcerda macrumors 6502a

    jkcerda

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    #16
    you are implying the worker is due something else other than what he agreed to get paid for. wealth redistribution based on nothing more than feelings.
     
  17. Chew Toy McCoy thread starter macrumors regular

    Chew Toy McCoy

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    #17

    You think trying to land a higher **** paying job in a world of **** paying jobs makes a healthy economy and apparently you're perfectly fine with the financial success from somebody's hard work going to anybody except that worker. Other than gun control I’m surprised you’re not an establishment Democrat. Their entire ethos is everything is 100% your personal fault.
     
  18. lowendlinux Contributor

    lowendlinux

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    #18
    There's a power dynamic you're ignoring and you know that.
     
  19. Bug-Creator macrumors 6502a

    Bug-Creator

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    #19
    You mean ranting bout minor inconsequential detail without giving an actual solution?


    Who would do that;)
     
  20. jkcerda macrumors 6502a

    jkcerda

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    #20
    I am also to blame for Hillary losing the election :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:
    why don't you try to be a bit more specific? pick a job you think where the workers should get part of the proceeds other than their wages.
    --- Post Merged, Sep 26, 2017 ---
    asked for clarification as the implications were too vague.
     
  21. Chew Toy McCoy thread starter macrumors regular

    Chew Toy McCoy

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    #21

    Any and all jobs. The middle class and economy is strong when the workers get a share of the company’s financial success. They also buy things which is tangible instead of the highly volatile speculation based economy we’ve tried to make normal no matter how many times it fails.

    I think the mental disconnect is when people think about low to middle low wage earners they envision the most ignorant and lazy person they can imagine and make that the standard.
     
  22. jkcerda macrumors 6502a

    jkcerda

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    #22
    yeah, the "Share" they get is called a paycheck , and it comes in weekly/bi-weekly or monthly depending on the arrangement they made with management.
    you seemingly imply that yes the walmart greeter should get more than just the paycheck he signed up for .
     
  23. LizKat macrumors 601

    LizKat

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    #23


    It doesn't matter if we turn to dust, turn and turn
    And turn we must, I guess I'll see you
    Dancin' in the ruins tonight, dancin' in the ruins
    Guess I'll see you dancin' in the ruins tonight

    Translation: dance as we may, the owners of capital ain't the ones turning to dust.​
     
  24. Chew Toy McCoy thread starter macrumors regular

    Chew Toy McCoy

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    #24
    You really want to defend the Walmart family who have more wealth than the bottom 40% of the country combined while many of their employees have to also receive government assistance to make ends meet? Or it seems like your end of the debate is ignoring that part of the equation and just want to circle the low end people.

    And yeah, if you want to stick to that example I think everybody at Walmart should be paid a lot more.
     
  25. jeyf macrumors 65816

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    #25
    current government is not as expected. the bush years were bad too.

    for me its how much money i can make. I did well under Mr Clinton with a W2 employ and my own company did well during Obama. I hope who ever is in office now dosnt manage to kill off the recovery.

    liberal or conservative are the same, just old old labels
     

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