Bradley Manning and Wikileaks

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by the8thark, May 27, 2013.

  1. the8thark macrumors 68040

    the8thark

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    #1
    For those who don't know here is a little background.

    - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PZ0UgJRPhxw
    A very good video explaining the whole "why Julian Assange is stuck in an embassy in the UK."

    - Wikileaks is an organisation headed up by Julian Assange, an Australian who wants to share the world's secrets with the world. And many governments and other organisations don't like their secrets in the public so they are against this.

    - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bradley_Manning
    The basic Bradley Manning story.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_v._Bradley_Manning
    A basic summation of the trial he is involved in.

    The TLDR of it all is:
    In 2010 Bradley Manning a member of the US military forces obtained encrypted videos of US bomb strikes on civilians. He passed this footage along to wikileaks to hopefully give the incident the world wide coverage it deserved. The US miliraty and government did not like this. He was demoted, arrested, spent almost 3 years in jail without trial, often under borderline torture conditions.

    This is all the more relevant as finally Bradley Manning is getting his time in court.

    The questions?

    1. Is Bradley Manning guilty of treason as some people claim or is he a national hero for exposing war crimes?

    2. Is Julian Assagne guilty of rape or was he set up by two women possibly politically motivated?

    What are your opinions on the subject?
     
  2. AhmedFaisal, May 28, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 16, 2013
  3. the8thark thread starter macrumors 68040

    the8thark

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    #3
    I pretty much agree with everything you have said. This is my opinion on the issues too. But I am aware these are very controversial issues. With strong opinions on both sides. And everyone is free to speak their opinions on this.
     
  4. GermanyChris macrumors 601

    GermanyChris

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    #4
    The private knew what he was doing and the consequences and he acted in the manner he though best. I wouldn't have let him become exposed to information he leaked.

    I'm inclined to believe Assagne first but I don't know anything about his current situation.
     
  5. P-Worm macrumors 68020

    P-Worm

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    #5
    The way I see it, exposing government secrets isn't the same a being a whistleblower for a company. Though I think that there should be checks and balances in government, exposing government secrets can often lead to deaths. There's a reason treason is considered a very high crime.

    I'm split on the issue though. I think the above mentioned video showing war crimes is something that we, the public, should know about.

    P-Worm
     
  6. skunk macrumors G4

    skunk

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    #6
    I draw a distinction between film of war atrocities and diplomatic cables. Diplomacy is impossible if all your cards are face up, whereas the vileness of war always needs to be seen, especially when the mask of civilisation slips.
     
  7. AhmedFaisal, May 28, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 16, 2013
  8. skunk macrumors G4

    skunk

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    #8
    True enough.

    And don't forget, the State sees itself as victim too. Too many hats to fit on one head, if you ask me.
     
  9. dec. Suspended

    dec.

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    #9
    He would have been better off to shut his mouth about any crimes that have been commited by the US army. nobody wants to know the truth.
     
  10. rovex macrumors 65816

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    #10
    What? :confused:
     
  11. skunk macrumors G4

    skunk

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    #11
    I think I detected some irony there.
     
  12. iMikeT macrumors 68020

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    #12
    These guys are indeed heroes and should be living free. Their only crime was exposing the truth! Why are people like these punished for their efforts to ensure transparency with our government and governments around the world?
     
  13. ThisIsNotMe macrumors 68000

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    #13
    What war crimes did Manning "expose"?
    (Hint: None.)
     
  14. AhmedFaisal, May 30, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 16, 2013
  15. satcomer macrumors 603

    satcomer

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    #15
    I always wonder what happened to Bradley's direct Security Manager? Was that person at least fired (for not doing their job - Dereliction of duty, etc)?
     
  16. GermanyChris macrumors 601

    GermanyChris

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    #16
    I hope so..
     
  17. macmesser macrumors 6502a

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    #17
    US Constitution Article 3 Section 3:

    Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying War against them, or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort. No Person shall be convicted of Treason unless on the Testimony of two Witnesses to the same overt Act, or on Confession in open Court.
     
  18. the8thark thread starter macrumors 68040

    the8thark

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    #18
    You'd be surprised that everyone wants to know the truth. The issue here is some people want that truth hidden within their own little group of people (usually a government organisation) and others want this truth shared with the world so everyone knows what is really happening.

    ----------

    This is correct. Manning has exposed a number of war crimes the US has done. The "Collateral Murder" of the US killing innocent civilians is only the tip of the iceberg.
     
  19. the8thark thread starter macrumors 68040

    the8thark

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    #19
    http://wikileaks.org/Assange-Statement-on-the-First-Day.html

    This is Julian Assange's statement about the whole Bradley Manning trial. Everyone interested in this case and in a free and just USA should read it.

    But if you don't have the time I'll share the TLDR of it.
    "Assange believe's Manning's shot at a fair trial was dashed then Obama said Manning was guilty a long time ago. And that the rehearsals (yes this triel even had many rehearsals) were dome to make sure it's all played out to the media as the US government wants it to be"

    Assange's last paragraph sums it up perfectly.
     
  20. Happybunny macrumors 68000

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    #20
    All the world and his dog Knows that Bradley Manning and Julian Assange embarrassed the USA in front of the world.

    Bradley Manning will certainly not get any thing like a fair trail in the USA.

    As for trying to get Julian Assange via Sweden I'm not sure, but given the US's complete disregard for International Laws, it's more than possible.
     
  21. edk99 macrumors 6502a

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    #21
    Well unfortunately he was acquitted of the most seriously charge but glad the traitor will most likely spend the rest of his life in jail. Now we need to get our hands on Snowden and do the same.

     
  22. bradl macrumors 68040

    bradl

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    #22
    He did not aid the enemy. Therefore he is not a traitor.

    That's not me talking; that's the law, as the court handed down.

    BL.
     
  23. 63dot macrumors 603

    63dot

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    #23
    1) Treason? That's a stretch but saying Manning is some sort of Occupy Wall Street or Tea Party hero is also a stretch. I know some anti-government types think he is some sort of hero but they are better in following somebody like Ron Paul to get their message across. Paul outlines where he thinks our military and government has gone too far and I am curious where he stands on Manning. It's one thing to recognize the hero in Snowden and the crimes of the NSA, but Manning case has a lot of gray areas. Only time will tell if he was acting on his conscience but maybe hurt some innocents or if he is really a hero and thus his actions are justified, even celebrated like a Dr. King. It's correct that he was found not guilty on that main charge and the law spoke. Treason should be for, well, treason.

    2) Julian Assange and rape being politically motivated? It certainly shored up a lot of money and influence against him and maybe they think this will stick. The evidence will have to show it one way or another on rape but it's pretty obvious that there were some out to get him and the disproportionate response in going after him. What about a regular, low key person and a rape charge? He's forever a target and any thing he does, however small, will be magnified in the press.

    The world's activists against government surveillance is a big movement similar to the civil rights movement in the 1960s. The government will did its heels in and try to justify obvious wrongs, but will only slow down the justice that will come its way. NSA, and other government agencies will probably have to pay up and even get shut down. What started as a legitimate reason to spot terrorists has obviously stepped over a line and ceased being helpful for free people simply seeking safety from terrorists. Anyway, the terrorists should be proud of Bin Laden since it's a goal of those groups to reduce our liberties. The terrorists can never win the war but can still gum up the system and the overreaction of the NSA (turning against its own citizens) is a classic example. We got punked by Al Qaeda and took their bait.
     
  24. edk99 macrumors 6502a

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    #24
    You are correct. He is not a traitor as ruled by the courts.
     
  25. iMikeT macrumors 68020

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    #25
    Even with the acquittal and time-served, will he regain his freedom and see the light of day?
     

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