Break up of the UK?

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by Happybunny, Jan 10, 2012.

  1. Happybunny macrumors 68000

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    #1
    I have read that there is a good chance that Scotland will hold a referendum on leaving the union.
    What are the odds that is really happens, or is it just, 'Smoke and Mirrors'?
     
  2. Mord macrumors G4

    Mord

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    #2
    Seems unlikely to me.

    That's just a gut feeling though.
     
  3. Cromulent macrumors 603

    Cromulent

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    #3
    I can't see it would help the Scottish economy much. Plus the only reason Scotland joined the union in the first place was because England agreed to take on the debt that Scotland had got itself but was unable to pay back.
     
  4. remmy macrumors 6502a

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    #4
    Think it will happen, for nationalistic flag waving reasons alone.

    Even if it doesn't the first time, they will keep on until they do.

    I am happy for them to go for independance if they want, but think it is a bad idea.
     
  5. arkitect, Jan 10, 2012
    Last edited: Jan 10, 2012

    arkitect macrumors 603

    arkitect

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    #5
    To join up with what you posted in the Malvinas thread, I'd say it is likelier than ever.

    North Sea Oil is running out so the motivation for Westminster hanging on to Scotland is less.

    Autumn 2014 apparently.
     
  6. Peace macrumors Core

    Peace

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    #6
    N. Ireland should have done this a long time ago.
     
  7. woolyback macrumors regular

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    #7
    Why?
     
  8. Heilage macrumors 68030

    Heilage

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    #8
    I've never really understood the relationship between England and Scotland, can someone please explain it?

    Is it like England and Australia, sort of? Commonwealth?
     
  9. adroit macrumors 6502

    adroit

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    #9
  10. iStudentUK, Jan 10, 2012
    Last edited: Jan 10, 2012

    iStudentUK macrumors 65816

    iStudentUK

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    #10
    Well the UK is one country, but it is also made up of smaller countries. The difference is the Commonwealth is not one large country. Scotland has limited powers through their own parliament. This is mostly on smaller issues. Big issues like international relations, defence, human rights etc are handled by the central UK parliament in London.

    Contrary to what some may think this parliament in Westminster is NOT an English one (there isn't one of those) but a UK one. The Scottish and Welsh parliaments are subordinate to the Westminster one, they basically only legally exist within the remit of what the Westminster parliament allows. Strictly speaking if Scotland held a unilateral independence referendum it would not bind the Westminster parliament, but practically speaking they would have little choice but to agree.

    A referendum is likely to happen but I don't think Scotland will go independent soon, most Scots seem to favour more devolved powers over true independence. In any event an independent Scotland would almost certainly be in the EU and so still linked to the rest of the UK in that way.
     
  11. Blue Velvet Moderator emeritus

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    #11

    A good one, though. Support for independence from Westminster in Scotland currently runs at about 32% according to polls I've seen recently, and that's before the campaign actually starts.

    As a possible guide to how things may pan out, look at the referendum on PR recently. Polls gave it plenty of support until the campaign actually got started. By the time the national parties have spent their money and made their case, I would wager the referendum will not pass, because the SNP and Alex Salmond's charisma will not outweigh the guns of the Tories, Labour and the Lib Dems.

    Labour just on its own will not support Scottish independence, because electoral oblivion in Westminster will be the result. Three months of the national conversation obsessing over the West Lothian Question will bury Scottish independence, not that I have a stake in this, as I'm not yet a British citizen. Like haggis, though... also, men in kilts and scotch. ;)
     
  12. iStudentUK macrumors 65816

    iStudentUK

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    #12
    Annoyingly it wasn't on PR but on AV (alternative vote). I thought AV was a silly system (though still better than first-past-the-post) but would be quite happy with PR.
     
  13. Hugh macrumors 6502a

    Hugh

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    #13
    Did you get all that? There will be a test on what you learned in the video tomorrow! LOL :D

    Hugh
     
  14. Blue Velvet Moderator emeritus

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    #14

    True. I'm riffing while keeping an eye on the pasta. Dinner time. Laters. :)
     
  15. Happybunny thread starter macrumors 68000

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    #15
    All the information just confused me more.:confused:

    I have another question if Scottish MPs can vote in Westminster parliament, but English's MPs cannot vote in the Scottish Hollyrood parliament, why do they need/want independence?
     
  16. gkarris macrumors 604

    gkarris

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    #16
    They were probably in contact with someone from what was formerly known as the Florida Keys, now independent countries... :eek:

    ;)
     
  17. fat jez macrumors 68000

    fat jez

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    #17
    Different MP's. You have the MPs in Westminster and the MSPs in Holyrood.
     
  18. Sydde macrumors 68020

    Sydde

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    #18
    They got the Stone of Scone back, right? So what would they need England for?
     
  19. neiltc13 macrumors 68040

    neiltc13

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    #19
    The Scottish Parliament only has a small number of powers, things like defence, foreign policy etc are reserved by the United Kingdom Parliament and cannot be voted on by MSPs.
     
  20. Sydde macrumors 68020

    Sydde

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    #20
    Can someone correct my terminology:

    • England – a country on Britain
    • Britain: the whole island group, including Wales, Scotland, the Orkneys, the Shetlands and Lindisfarne
    • Great Britain: also including Man and those cow islands down by France
    • The UK: includes that crazy Papist Island with no snakes

    Is Northern Ireland part of Great Britain?
     
  21. Schtumple macrumors 601

    Schtumple

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    #21
    Honestly, in this day and age it seems like a very petty thing that'll probably end up wasting so much money that could've gone to better things, but that's their decision, if they want the independence and it's fully backed and voted for then they should get independence, but I don't really think anything worthwhile will come from it.
     
  22. firestarter, Jan 10, 2012
    Last edited: Jan 10, 2012

    firestarter macrumors 603

    firestarter

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    #22
    I suspect that the vote would not pass. The Scottish National Party run Scottish politics... but I suspect the reason for that is because they're actually quite good at getting a nice financial deal for Scots under the present system. I don't think that their majority reflects an underlying majority in favour of an exit from the Union.

    Personally, I'd prefer the Union to stay whole on a nationalistic basis - since I'm not particularly English-nationalistic, and I think the combination of nations are good for each other.

    I'd be in support of Scotland leaving on a political basis however. Scottish politics is much more left wing than English - and removing Scotland would essentially remove the Labour party with it.

    I don't believe it's right that UK politics has been dominated for so long by Scots (Blair and Brown) effectively voted in by Scots... especially given that Scotland has it's own parliament and political system. Scots represent only 8.4% of the population. This must be addressed somehow.

    Sadly, if you gave England a referendum on voting Scotland out... I think the result would be pretty decisive.

    You're joking, right?

    Peace in Northern Ireland has been bought at the cost of massive subsidy from the rest of the UK. A vast proportion of NI jobs are public sector... the UK government effectively 'outsourcing' a lot of it's operations there. Corporations who create private sector jobs get massive kickbacks from government too (I know this - I've helped to set up an office there!). The English are paying taxes to have their own government move their jobs to NI!

    I've walked down the Shankill and the Falls Road. Every house has satellite TV, with a happy employed occupant inside watching soaps and reality TV. Prosperity is the real story behind peace!

    NI isn't viable as an independent state, and now the Republic is effectively bankrupt it's not in their interests to disrupt the status quo in any way at all. ;)
     
  23. Macky-Mac, Jan 10, 2012
    Last edited: Jan 10, 2012

    Macky-Mac macrumors 68030

    Macky-Mac

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    #23
    It gets a bit confusing doesn't it? I think part of the problem is that "Great Britain" can be used as a term that both refers to geography, or to political boundaries, which may be a bit different, plus "Great Britain" gets confused with the "British Isles".....As I understand it; Northern Ireland is part of the UK but not Great Britain, Northern Ireland is the only part of the "Papist Island with no snakes" that's part of the UK although the whole island called Ireland is part of the British Isles while not being part of Great Britain, "Man and those cow islands" aren't part of the UK and while they're part of the British Isles, they don't seem to be part of Great Britain either.....or as near as I can figure out anyway
     
  24. iJohnHenry macrumors P6

    iJohnHenry

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    #24
    OMG, Scotland is Quebec's Guru. :eek:




    :rolleyes:
     
  25. NutsNGum, Jan 11, 2012
    Last edited: Jan 11, 2012

    NutsNGum macrumors 68030

    NutsNGum

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    #25
    It is. There are currently 533 constituencies in England, 59 in Scotland, 40 in Wales and 18 in Northern Ireland.
     

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