Brexiteers worst nightmare: an unraveling Europe

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by shinji, Nov 30, 2016.

  1. shinji macrumors 65816

    shinji

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    #1
    http://www.politico.eu/article/brex...movement-le-pen-nobert-hofer-francois-fillon/
     
  2. Eraserhead macrumors G4

    Eraserhead

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    #2
    Probably the biggest issue is that even business leaders and socialists think the government is incompetent and out of touch.
     
  3. Shirasaki macrumors 603

    Shirasaki

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    #3
    Nationalism rises rapidly recently, accelerated by Trump "make America great again" campaign. Unfortunately, this process will not hurt one person or two, but millions, or even billions.
    I fear the final product of extreme nationalism is endless world war, or "infinite wars" and what I see in ソラノヲト could become true, in a slightly different form.
     
  4. Eraserhead macrumors G4

    Eraserhead

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    #4
    I think civil war in many countries is more likely than fighting between countries to be honest.
     
  5. jeremy h, Nov 30, 2016
    Last edited: Nov 30, 2016

    jeremy h macrumors 6502

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    #5
    Nationalist politics never went away. They've always been there. They can be buried in complex structures that work well when times are good but when different pressure is applied to such complex top down structures they start to degrade. A good example is the UK itself. It's a political and monetary union that has existed for hundreds of years. Its can be argued that its probably been one of the most successful of such unions - yet in the last 50 years the pressures on the union have changed (oil, the formation of the EU etc etc) and very quickly nationalist politics rises to the fore. As anyone who lives here will testify they've always, always been here but economic imbalances buried them. (Now, one can argue as to whose nationalist politics are benign and whose aren't but that would miss my point!)

    Nassim Taleb's new book 'Antifragility' is very good on this subject and well worth reading. Even if you don't agree with him its pretty thought provoking. I think he would argue that you can use a rule of thumb that anything that has stood the test of time (many nation states) will endure as they have been repeatedly tested over the last millennia in many cases, hundreds of years in others) but the jury is out on modern top down complex structures such as the EU.
     
  6. aaronvan Suspended

    aaronvan

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    #6
    My thoughts:

    1) The United States is the greatest nation in the world.
    2) The United States government should look out for Americans first.
    3) American jobs should stay in America.
    4) Only American citizens have an inherent right to live in the United States.

    Am I a nationalist?
     
  7. yaxomoxay macrumors 68000

    yaxomoxay

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    #7
    Added to the reading list, many thanks for the suggestion. One question: is the correct title "Antifragile"?

    As for yours "Even if you don't agree with him its pretty thought provoking," this is the best kind of books. I often say that in order to find agreement with my own opinions I don't need anyone else than myself; I always agree with me.
    --- Post Merged, Nov 30, 2016 ---
    Can you please expand on #4?
     
  8. Eraserhead macrumors G4

    Eraserhead

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    #8
    Not really IMO.
     
  9. jeremy h macrumors 6502

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    #9
    Oh, yes - correct! Its Antifragile!

    If you haven't read it I would try Black Swan first. He can be quite obnoxious both as an author and a character but challenging and interesting.
     
  10. VulchR macrumors 68020

    VulchR

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  11. aaronvan Suspended

    aaronvan

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    #11
    Not really. It's a simple declarative sentence.
     
  12. VulchR macrumors 68020

    VulchR

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    #12
    Mostly not, but note that point 4 contradicts international treaties about accepting refugees that the US Congress has ratified. In short, legally point 4 is incorrect.
     
  13. yaxomoxay macrumors 68000

    yaxomoxay

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    #13
    The sentence is simple, the problem is not. I am curious about the definition you give to "inherent right". I am not trying to provoke you, I am seriously trying to understand what you're saying.
     
  14. Eraserhead macrumors G4

    Eraserhead

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    #14
    I don't think you're going to get the armed forces to cooperate enough to get that far. I think we'll all tell the government to **** off and stop being so useless.
     
  15. aaronvan Suspended

    aaronvan

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    #15
    I'm not trying to be a dick, either. Let me rephrase it: if you're not a U.S. citizen the United States government can revoke your residency and expel you.
     
  16. yaxomoxay macrumors 68000

    yaxomoxay

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    #16
    ah ok, it's what I suspected. 100% agree with you.
     
  17. VulchR macrumors 68020

    VulchR

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    #17
    I wish I had your faith in fellow human beings.
     
  18. Eraserhead macrumors G4

    Eraserhead

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    #18
    When I speak to socialists or even councillors or speak to business directors they say (paraphrased) **** the government.

    That is a step before civil war not a step before intra-country conflict.

    Why the **** would I go to war with France when the British government is so clueless it wants to ban porn?

    And people vote Farage or Trump as a middle finger up to the establishment. Not because they like them particularly.
     
  19. Shirasaki macrumors 603

    Shirasaki

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    #19
    This removes all attempts of trying to immigrate to United States completely.
     
  20. yaxomoxay macrumors 68000

    yaxomoxay

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    #20
    Not true at all. It simply regulates it.
     
  21. Shirasaki macrumors 603

    Shirasaki

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    #21
    So we consume exceeded population ourselves, within each country until we reach new equilibrium and everyone is happy? Well, seems that Mother Nature does the same on various species. Perhaps it is required in some points.
     
  22. unlinked macrumors 6502a

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    #22
    Being a refugee isn't an inherent property.
     
  23. yaxomoxay macrumors 68000

    yaxomoxay

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    #23
    Any country can revoke refugee status.
     
  24. Shirasaki macrumors 603

    Shirasaki

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    #24
    Regulates it? We all know that currently not everyone can immigrate to United States. Wait, you mean those deemed to be "illegal immigrants"?
    I am still struggling to understand "inherited" but sounds like, well, uh.
    What should I say? o_O
     
  25. yaxomoxay macrumors 68000

    yaxomoxay

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    #25
    Not inherited. He said inherent.
     

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