British issue war crimes warrant for Livni

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by Cave Man, Dec 15, 2009.

  1. IntheNet macrumors regular

    IntheNet

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    #2
  2. yojitani macrumors 68000

    yojitani

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    #3
    The foreign secretary did not issue the warrant. No self-respecting politician would ever display anything like an ethical backbone and we would surely never vote for one.
     
  3. BoyBach macrumors 68040

    BoyBach

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    #4

    This was issued by a judge, not the work experience lad, sorry the Foreign Secretary. The bumfluffed one showed the political classes usual lack of anything approaching a vertebrae by saying that the law needs to be changed so that this can never happen again. (Presumably after receiving an anxious phone call from his former boss, Anthony Blair.)
     
  4. remmy macrumors 6502a

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    #5
  5. Eraserhead macrumors G4

    Eraserhead

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    #6
    Maybe I need to write to my MP telling them how good a move this is.

    Of course it'll also improve our national security.
     
  6. IntheNet macrumors regular

    IntheNet

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    #7
    :rolleyes:

    Do tell us how...
     
  7. Eraserhead macrumors G4

    Eraserhead

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    #8
    Because it shows that we aren't bias towards one side in the Israeli-Palestinean conflict. And muslim communities around the world (even in Malaysia and Indonesia) get very upset about the way the Palestinians are treated by the Israelis.

    Hamas members are already likely to be arrested when they come to the UK (as they are a recognised terrorist organisation), so its only fair to treat the other side in the same way.
     
  8. mkrishnan Moderator emeritus

    mkrishnan

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    #9
    I do think it is likely there were warcrimes committed, and she does seem like a likely suspect for having committed them. OTOH the likelihood that the UK will try her is low, much as nothing will come from Italy's in absentia trials of American operatives who committed illegal acts in Europe. But the Israeli government should be held accountable for their behavior, and if others follow suit, then ultimately it will impede their ability to engage in international tasks and perhaps force them to begin behaving responsibly.

    So overall, good show, just as long as it isn't an opening salvo of a Berlusconi-esque dissipation of government into sideshow absurdity.
     
  9. Macky-Mac macrumors 68030

    Macky-Mac

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    #10
    Are there actually arrest warrants out for any of the Hamas leadership? Or is it just the case that your government wont deal with them, openly at least, since they're listed as a terrorist organization?
     
  10. Eraserhead macrumors G4

    Eraserhead

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    #11
    I'm not sure to be honest.
     
  11. Macaddicttt macrumors 6502a

    Macaddicttt

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    #12
    The reason why the warrant was issued was because she was thought to be in the UK. As soon as it was clear she wasn't, they revoked the warrant. I'm sure if Hamas or Iranian officials showed up in the UK, similar warrants would/could be issued.
     
  12. Macky-Mac macrumors 68030

    Macky-Mac

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    #13
    Clearly some people on the Arab side are not happy with the way this was handled by the UK.

    From an opinion piece posted on the Al Jazeera web site;

     
  13. skunk macrumors G4

    skunk

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    #14
    I am in full agreement with them.
     
  14. mkrishnan Moderator emeritus

    mkrishnan

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    #15
    That is an embarrassing turn of events. The UK was right the first time.
     
  15. Eraserhead macrumors G4

    Eraserhead

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    #16
    Same here. Our government has behaved badly on this one.
     
  16. IntheNet macrumors regular

    IntheNet

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    #17
    Good...

    For the British to so badly insult Israel by even considering arresting Foreign Minister Tzipi Livni is both reprehensible and deserving of long and prostrate apology; clearly U.K. Ambassador Tom Phillips needs to get a better handle on his nation's magistrate court lunatics. Moreover, should the Westminster magistrate court judges need to fill their jails with war-crime perpetrators there are more than enough Hamas and Hezbollah terrorist representatives to fit the bill... Good reference material here:"Israel may be a difficult ally – but its leaders are not 'war criminals'" (Telegraph).
     
  17. nbs2 macrumors 68030

    nbs2

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    #18
    And so a generally balanced thread comes crashing down.

    And tell me, what about her photograph indicates that she couldn't be a war criminal?
     
  18. skunk macrumors G4

    skunk

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    #19
    Livni is not the Israeli Foreign Minister. Nor are the British courts supposed to be under the control of whichever craven Foreign Secretary is in post in Whitehall.
     
  19. Eraserhead macrumors G4

    Eraserhead

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    #20
    Yeah if she was a current politician the argument for not trying to arrest her would be much stronger - you can't arrest people who are currently in government when they come to your country.

    David Milliband has gone down in my respect for his apology.
     
  20. mkrishnan Moderator emeritus

    mkrishnan

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    #21
    I'm not sure I follow the argument that it is not appropriate to arrest someone suspected of war crimes / crimes against humanity because they are currently in office... Wasn't Pinochet still a Senator of some sort when your government arrested him for his crimes against humanity? And isn't Livni currently an MP?
     
  21. skunk macrumors G4

    skunk

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    #22
    It would be wrong to arrest a government minister on an official visit. That is the real distinction.
     
  22. mkrishnan Moderator emeritus

    mkrishnan

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    #23
    I agree, in the sense that it is wrong to "shoot the messenger," I guess... although there seem to be several distinctions (this is my own opinion here).

    1) Is there a prima facie case that the person is personally involved in the commission of the crime, rather than just being the first member of the government one can grab? (In this case, appears to be, yes.)

    2) Is the warrant being issued specifically to entrap the person while they are there on an official visit of state (Here, she seems to have been invited to the country, but the Jewish National Fund doesn't seem to constitute a visit of state).

    3) To a lesser extent, does arresting the individual and trying them for war crimes hinder a credible diplomatic attempt to stop the ongoing war crimes themselves (in this case, I would go for no, since I don't see that there is a likelihood that the day-to-day crimes will stop under the current approach, and the war campaign itself is over).

    I would personally consider it reasonable for a government to issue a warrant for the arrest of a political official at any level of government, if they are not on a state visit, are personally implicated in the commission of crimes against humanity, and if the arrest does not acutely hinder a diplomatic approach likely to immediately cease or reduce ongoing crimes.
     
  23. Eraserhead macrumors G4

    Eraserhead

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    #24
    Possibly but those individuals weren't/aren't currently in government at the time - Pinochet stepped down as president of Chile in 1990.
     
  24. nbs2 macrumors 68030

    nbs2

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    #25
    While he was no longer president, he did remain a senator for life. But, as skunk sort of alludes, his european visits were not state visits (but rather medical treatment).
     

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