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Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by glocke12, Jan 28, 2009.
Worth watching whether you are pro or anti gun...
What a dreadful piece of disgusting propaganda.
I'm not going to sit and watch some YouTube rubbish at work, but I can tell you that this Brit does not want guns returning.
did you even bother watching the entire thing? It is almost ten minutes in length, I posted at 8:48, and you replied at 8:53.
I have mixed feelings on the handgun bans here, mostly I agree with them. However I do think that if an intruder comes into your house you should have every right to seriously injure or even kill the intruder(s). You never know what people are going to do and I don't think defending yourself should be punishable like that. It's one thing about the laws in britain that I find incredibly stupid.
yes, but you probably dont speak for all of your countrymen (countrywomen).
I've watched it all now. I started watching just after you posted it and it was blatantly obvious is was utter drivel of the highest order.
Let me add my British self to the list of those that don't want their guns back.
I dont know exactly what is going on there in terms of crime, but if this is true your bans have had little effect on gun crime...
No, but neither does your thread title. It should read something like "Some Brits want their guns back", or, more likely (if a statistically valid sample was taken of the population) "A very small minority of Brits want their guns back".
Given they way you phrased your comment I have to assume you are not British so I wonder why you even care what we want?
I'm sorry but if you don't know the facts why post (an obviously biased outdated) video and a loaded thread title?
Being allowed to kill somebody, possibly a kid, just because they break into your house would be outrageous, in my opinion.
Even then, shooting somebody in the back when they were running away, like Tony Martin did, can't really be called self defense.
That is just such bollocks.
Of course guns can be obtained by those that really want them, but this is a world away from selling guns in Walmart. If guns were easily available I have no doubt our really very small gun problem would explode over night.
Than your not bothered in the least by the fact that a man is in jail for defending himself?
This hits home for me, as I live in an isolated area also. Police response to an emergency at my home is at least 5 minutes away. Should someone break into my house I would have no option but to defend myself...
This piece is so flawed as to be worthless. It's a PR film made by right-wing nutters.
One small example of the lies within - it says the Countryside Alliance march in 2002 was the largest peaceful protest march in the UK with a 400000 turnout. WRONG. That honour goes to the anti Iraq war march in 2003 which I was proud to attend, along with 1-2 million others (depending who you believe).
Seriously, that video is disgusting. If it was crafty enough to actually fool a few people then I'd spent time debunking it, but nobody is going to be taken in by something that ridiculous, so I won't bother wasting too much time on it.
You can hardly call shooting somebody through the back when they are running away 'defending' yourself.
Now that is not exactly what I meant and I imagine you know it.
If someone comes into my house by force and is threatening me I feel I should have every right to defend myself.
My best friend in high school shot and killed an intruder. He was in her home at night when she was alone and he was armed. She shot him in the face. She never saw the inside of a prison cell for it and that is exactly how it should be.
If thats what happened thats a little different. there was a similar case in texas where a man saw his neighbors house being broken into and I am pretty sure he shot them in the back as they were running away..
But in any case, if someone does break into your home, you really dont know what they will do. If someone was fleeing I certainly would not shoot, but if they were obviously a threat to me I would not hesitate. I am of the belief that if someone breaks into your home, than you should have the right to take all appropriate measures to defend yourself and your property.
Sorry, I only know what you said. Which was that you should be allowed to kill an intruder.
If somebody is threatening you or has a weapon ready to attack you, then you are allowed to defend yourself.
It's just one of the many things the video didn't mention. The police debunked all these other made up break ins, too.
Defending yourself is fine. If somebody is about to seriously harm or kill you then there is no jury in the land that will prosecute you. Shooting a 16 year old boy in the back, as Tony Martin before shooting the other guy trying to run away, isn't going to win you much sympathy.
Unless somebody has an example of that happening, I've certainly never heard of it.
As for defending property with lethal force; I don't agree with it.
OK, well lets just say that I mean if someone is being threatening. I wouldn't shoot/stab someone in the back running away, but if someone broke in and ran aggressively towards me I think if I had a gun handy, I would shoot. (just like my friend did) People are capable of some incredibly frightening things and breaking into your home is a terrifying experience and some leniencies should be given to the home owner/dweller in those situations.
But that doesn't seem to be the case. I've heard it here before numerous times where the person defending themselves is sent to prison. That is very very wrong in my opinion.
Well, that's a different kettle of fish because you're about to be attacked. With respect, that's entirely different to both shooting an intruder (which isn't an uncommon position and one you had appeared to take) and to what Tony Martin did.
I've had to defend myself before, on more than one occasion. I've never had any trouble with police.
Like I say, I've defended myself on more than once occasion and have never broken the law doing it. I guess we'd either have to review the laws ourselves or wait for a solicitor from the UK to pop up.
I haven't read all of this page, mainly because I'm fairly lazy, but it appears to back up what I'm saying.
I can't think of any cases in the UK where a person defending themselves proportionately to the threat has been sent to prison. This does not mean that there have not been any mind you. The cases where people have been sent to prison tend to be where they have used disproportionate force. For example shooting someone in the back as they ran away: there was no threat.
Unfortunately what is considered to be proportionate force is very much open to interpretation. For example this case seems to have gone the wrong way. I would consider that the force used was reasonable given the perceived threat level (and it's not like it killed him instantly: the assailant could have survived). The court thought otherwise...
The newspaper clips in that video date back to 2003.
Then there is the case of Tony Martins.
Shock horror that someone who was convicted of buglary gets 3 years, while someone convicted of murder has to serve longer
Then when is convinction is lessened to manslaughter he "still" has to sit behind bars, what a shocker.
That video is so so slanted, outdated and not in line with public consensus.
With an illegal firearm as well. He was lucky to only serve 3 years for it.
The problem with that is that he stabbed him 5 times.
Shooting someone once they are no longer a threat is wrong, I agree with that...
Defending property with lethal force depends on the case I guess. I imagine there would be some situations where it would be appropriate (other person had a weapon they were threatening you with while stealing your property)...
All that said...Id hate to have to shoot someone...that must be an awful thing to have to live with...